How the porn industry is killing male intimacy

[Grubbyhubby]

I love threads like these. They make you think deeply. I want to add that we have fewer spaces for men to be men. I remember being a kid and spending long unsupervised summer days at the creek with other boys. We were shirtless, pissed where we wanted, and swam nude. No cameras, no giggling girls just young men being and existing.

I remember gym locker rooms with men of all ages, and sizes, standing around naked without a care. I fear with the advent of cameras everywhere and unsolicited voyeurism for pornographic consumption online, men have been shoved into some hole where we are made to be ashamed of our dicks. For example, I freeball for comfort and walked out to my mailbox only to be accosted by some woman and man walking their dog telling me I should put some underpants on because kids might see my bulge.

Seriously, I was surprised and quickly grabbed the mail and dashed inside. Why, because in this day and age, no one wants to be known as some degenerate. Men are made to feel like their bodies especially their dicks are disgusting. What's more disheartening is that men often do this to other men. It's "gay" to freeball. It's "gay" to be nude amongst other men. etc.

 

[Sagittarius84]

Yeah, as other posters have echoed the porn is the response to society's perception of male sexuality, in that it may only exist in service to women or their preferences, or as gay; in any other permutation male sexuality is inherently predatory or deviant. Even the act of identifying porn as the culprit in male intimacy deficiency is a way to control male sexuality that isn't necessarily in service to women or whatever powers that be.

 

[Mr_Username]

I love threads like these. They make you think deeply. I want to add that we have fewer spaces for men to be men. I remember being a kid and spending long unsupervised summer days at the creek with other boys. We were shirtless, pissed where we wanted, and swam nude. No cameras, no giggling girls just young men being and existing.

I remember gym locker rooms with men of all ages, and sizes, standing around naked without a care. I fear with the advent of cameras everywhere and unsolicited voyeurism for pornographic consumption online, men have been shoved into some hole where we are made to be ashamed of our dicks. For example, I freeball for comfort and walked out to my mailbox only to be accosted by some woman and man walking their dog telling me I should put some underpants on because kids might see my bulge.

Seriously, I was surprised and quickly grabbed the mail and dashed inside. Why, because in this day and age, no one wants to be known as some degenerate. Men are made to feel like their bodies especially their dicks are disgusting. What's more disheartening is that men often do this to other men. It's "gay" to freeball. It's "gay" to be nude amongst other men. etc.

I really don't think some of this is a matter of seeming 'gay' for one thing there's never been more public and legal acceptance of being gay in America than now. The getting mail thing is really just more of a public indecency thing. That's always been around and you have to remember women have been dealing with it much worse and for longer. In the early 1900s, a woman showing her ankle was taboo and schools still have draconian dress codes for girls. But school dress codes for boys are basically "no shirt no shoes no service, actually the shirt thing is only every other day." It kinda silly to complain that you have to wear underwear and pants in public when you could probably leave at least half your body uncovered with little shame. Even in your story, you guys could only be so uninhibited in so many places back in the day. I hardly think that having to hide your penis on the street is a big ask.

I really just think we've become more modest and maybe more shy. I guess it could be viewed as a loss of freedom but also I don't really want to have to look at my neighbor's most intimate areas when I just want to go out on a walk.

 

[iamjustme65]

I am glad I grew up before the internet.
The only pornography I was exposed to was magazines.
I can't imagine growing up and my main exposure to my sexual curiosity was pornography that is ridiculously unrealistic in every way.

 

[678wsb]

I think there might be other causes. The rise of the Me Too and related movements has made people more circumspect in any situation that might be remotely sexual. I also think the mainstreaming of bisexuality and the huge increase in the number people identifying as bisexual (which I think is a good thing) might make some people more modest. Knowing that a hypermasculine jock at the gym that’s always talking about his girlfriend’s pussy might also like bending over and taking it up the ass, could change the locker room dynamic.

I don't think it's that. Even when I was a teen in the late 1990s, guys tried to cover up as much as possible in the locker room. It's not a recent development.

 

[8Cylinder]

Not covering up in locker room is being considered gay now?

No. I've really appreciated the deep thinking and intellectual analysis of those posting, regardless of their take on the situation. It is refreshing to see something other than juvenile jabs at fluff opinions.

In my personal experience, I can say that porn has generally greatly diminished my intimacy and enjoyment of sexual encounters. When a specific fetished fantasy consumes your excitement triggers, most everything in the moment of truth where one is naked before you takes a back seat to this conditioned trigger of "perfect stimulation".

It is no different than entertainment in general. We were satisfied with very few special effects, focusing on dialogue, story line, and well crafted film angles. Now without violently exploding heads exposing brains and jaw-dropping cinematography generated by CG and AI there is little interest for the average consumer.

This tendency must be relegated to general human experience. When starving you appreciate just any crumb of food that will sustain you, while food critics berate Michelin cuisine.

An escalator at an early World's Fair caused people to pass out from over stimulation, and now the most twisted, exaggerated inverted multiple loop roller coasters can never cease outdoing each other.

We once walked, and benefited from the health of natural movement without paying exaggerated gym fees and driving $50,000 automobiles stressfully protected and overly revered.

The OP has a fantastic, pertinent point that goes to a broader lesson in life. When your life fails to stimulate you as it did, have a close look at your values.

 

[KaloVisor]

Honestly I think it has more to do with men (mostly straight) thinking of random guys they don't know at the gym as possible "Perverts" who want to fuck them or rape them ect.. and it is more about trust and not wanting to be "lusted" after by another dude. in the 1950s and before hand. gays.. homosexuals and queers were almost never talked about openly some guys probably didn't even know they existed. so they were much more comfortable being naked around other men, because there was absolutely nothing "sexual" about it.

And as great as it is to have more freedoms now as a gay man, it also brings with this massive spotlight, my family for example who is sadly quite homophobic. mentions something about gays being gay gay content in movies tv on almost a daily basis. and the pro gay people are kind of obsessed with us as well. maybe if we were talked about 24/7 there wouldn't be such a paranoia. even though alot of guys are less homophobic now than they used to be, most straight guys still don't want another dude checking them out because they want to have sex with them.

Porn may haves some effect on this especially when it comes to friends being naked around each other I think it's only one factor, we just live in a much less innocent world now in that regard. and unfortunately I think homophobia does play a large role in it. even if it is a "unconscious homophobia" more than outright.

 

[KaloVisor]

No. I've really appreciated the deep thinking and intellectual analysis of those posting, regardless of their take on the situation. It is refreshing to see something other than juvenile jabs at fluff opinions.

In my personal experience, I can say that porn has generally greatly diminished my intimacy and enjoyment of sexual encounters. When a specific fetished fantasy consumes your excitement triggers, most everything in the moment of truth where one is naked before you takes a back seat to this conditioned trigger of "perfect stimulation".

It is no different than entertainment in general. We were satisfied with very few special effects, focusing on dialogue, story line, and well crafted film angles. Now without violently exploding heads exposing brains and jaw-dropping cinematography generated by CG and AI there is little interest for the average consumer.

This tendency must be relegated to general human experience. When starving you appreciate just any crumb of food that will sustain you, while food critics berate Michelin cuisine.

An escalator at an early World's Fair caused people to pass out from over stimulation, and now the most twisted, exaggerated inverted multiple loop roller coasters can never cease outdoing each other.

We once walked, and benefited from the health of natural movement without paying exaggerated gym fees and driving $50,000 automobiles stressfully protected and overly revered.

The OP has a fantastic, pertinent point that goes to a broader lesson in life. When your life fails to stimulate you as it did, have a close look at your values.

I don't know, maybe, I remember I saw a naked guy at a gym last year and I know I watch may more porn than is probably healthy, and while I was doing my best to act normal. he was really good looking and had a really nice body. not to mention it is a super rare occurrence to see naked guys at my gym. and it still turned me on quite a bit. I think because it was random and an unplanned occurrence, like when I meet up with a guy on met on grindr (a rare occurrence) unless I am really into the guy, it is just not nearly as spontaneous or sex. I remember dating a guy from work who I had met at college and I wasn't even sure was gay until we hung out a few times and he told me and our sadly brief relationship was alot more thrilling than any grindr hook up or fwb I had.

 

[Sagittarius84]

I think homophobia does play a large role in it. even if it is a "unconscious homophobia" more than outright.

A phobia refers to an irrational fear. This very forum, and plenty of platforms are full of threads of gay and bisexual seeking methodologies to observe and partake the sexuality specifically of men that are straight. I'd wager the "Ask a Straight Man " section has maybe 5% of the questions being lodged by women interested in men, if I'm being generous. 90% is gay and bi men, as well as some MTF transwomen seeking loopholes in seeing straight men naked, or touching them, etc. That's not even getting to threads that of which gyms/locker rooms are most full of opportunity.
I think most straight dudes may overestimate their individual appeal to gay guys around them, but gay guys, in their own words and writings have made their subtle predation clear enough that I think most straight men are justified in some level of apprehension of communal nudity that isn't necessarily rooted in some pornographic misconception.

 

[Sagittarius84]

I also want to ask, why is male intimacy so dependant upon nudity or our comfortability in being physically naked with each other? That seems a bit of a gynocentric perspective as to how people should be able to be amongst another without their being sexual undertones present....what if male intimacy is rooted more in being more emotionally naked(not necessarily expressive) and honestly supportive in a way that a lot of women don't necessarily recognize?

 

[KaloVisor]

A phobia refers to an irrational fear. This very forum, and plenty of platforms are full of threads of gay and bisexual seeking methodologies to observe and partake the sexuality specifically of men that are straight. I'd wager the "Ask a Straight Man " section has maybe 5% of the questions being lodged by women interested in men, if I'm being generous. 90% is gay and bi men, as well as some MTF transwomen seeking loopholes in seeing straight men naked, or touching them, etc. That's not even getting to threads that of which gyms/locker rooms are most full of opportunity.
I think most straight dudes may overestimate their individual appeal to gay guys around them, but gay guys, in their own words and writings have made their subtle predation clear enough that I think most straight men are justified in some level of apprehension of communal nudity that isn't necessarily rooted in some pornographic misconception.

I can understand, it is basically the equivalent of having straight guys having the same changing room as woman. but having separating changing rooms for gays and straights. does feel a bit discriminatory. lol

But I am gay and was always extremely unconformable with the idea of changing naked in front of a bunch of random men. I have more recently grown a little more comfortable with it though. if it was my friends I would be slightly more comfortable with it but I wouldn't really desire it in any any (except for maybe my crush)

also I have a lot of straight male friends and almost none of them would I want to go out of my way to see "Naked" I it would just be kind of weird and well I am not attracted to most of them, but it's not like it would be in end of the world if I did.

and there are creeps in the gym, some are just there to see that very thing, I actually go to work out lol. sure I may like to see a handsome dude naked. but I am just not turned on by every naked man, I see and most of the ones I did see naked I wished I hadn't (most are very old, which all the more power too you but not mything lol)

 

[bigboaster]

A phobia refers to an irrational fear. This very forum, and plenty of platforms are full of threads of gay and bisexual seeking methodologies to observe and partake the sexuality specifically of men that are straight. I'd wager the "Ask a Straight Man " section has maybe 5% of the questions being lodged by women interested in men, if I'm being generous. 90% is gay and bi men, as well as some MTF transwomen seeking loopholes in seeing straight men naked, or touching them, etc. That's not even getting to threads that of which gyms/locker rooms are most full of opportunity.
I think most straight dudes may overestimate their individual appeal to gay guys around them, but gay guys, in their own words and writings have made their subtle predation clear enough that I think most straight men are justified in some level of apprehension of communal nudity that isn't necessarily rooted in some pornographic misconception.

Low key speaking facts here, although some won't like to admit it

 

[Sagittarius84]

Back to the topic, however...does anyone else find it a little bit more than coincidental that the major critics of porn consumption by straight men tend to be gay men and straight women? It lends credence to the thought that society has commoditized the sexuality of straight men and there will always be backlash whenever straight men try to assert or exercise their sexuality in a way that doesn't serve the two aforementioned groups' amicabilities.

 

[bigboaster]

Back to the topic, however...does anyone else find it a little bit more than coincidental that the major critics of porn consumption by straight men tend to be gay men and straight women? It lends credence to the thought that society has commoditized the sexuality of straight men and there will always be backlash whenever straight men try to assert or exercise their sexuality in a way that doesn't serve the two aforementioned groups' amicabilities.

How do gay men critique straight men's porn consumption? The majority of critics of porn tend to be:

-MRAs who view porn as detrimental to men's wellbeing (especially onlyfans since it fuels unhealthy parasocial bonds in place of real life sex and like the title suggests, ruins intimacy). They are mainly heterosexual.
- & Feminists, particularly those critical of sex work in general (who view porn as degrading to women, as well as perpetuating violent attitudes towards women.)

I have yet to see prominent gay critics of porn really. What would even be their gripe. Im curious what you're referring to with that

 

[KaloVisor]

How do gay men critique straight men's porn consumption? The majority of critics of porn tend to be:

-MRAs who view porn as detrimental to men's wellbeing (especially onlyfans since it fuels unhealthy parasocial bonds in place of real life sex and like the title suggests, ruins intimacy). They are mainly heterosexual.
- & Feminists, particularly those critical of sex work in general (who view porn as degrading to women, as well as perpetuating violent attitudes towards women.)

I have yet to see prominent gay critics of porn really. What would even be their gripe. Im curious what you're referring to with that

I am gay and definitely have a porn addiction, it's not exactly like being addicted to drugs, I am pretty much fully functional. hard-working adult


I guess I have needs and that's how I met them most of the time. and where I live and maybe it's just harder for gays in general. it's very hard to find a long term partner, grindr is not the best place to look I guess, so most of the time rather than hook up with a random guy I've never met, (who will bail on me 80% of the time anyways) I will watch porn bc it feels safer, I'm not fully out so it makes things alot harder. I guess If I were straight. I feel like I would have less need to watch it quite as much, I wouldn't have to hide my relationships, or even my attractions from most of the important people in my life, and since I definitely be interested in woman sexually, I would be ok not having to jack off all the time, and could just have sex with my gf. maybe that is naive though.

I do kind of feel like it's wired into me to think it's wrong to watch a woman be humiliated in pounded in a sex video. but I think that's mostly my conservative christian upbringing, sometimes I wonder if it's why I turned out gay. (probably not). my dad always talked about how precious woman were. so I was like well men aren't they are big and scary and masculine and I want to pound the shit out of them and they are strong so they can't take it. (that's basically how I thought as a kid and teen).

there are arguments on both sides. but I have trouble not feeling super stressed and horny if I go more then a couple days without porn and I would like to know I could stop it for a pro-longed amount of time if I wanted to and I just can't see how that is a good thing. in my case I think it is a combination of stress and loneliness , which is probably the case with most straight men.

 

[Sagittarius84]

I have yet to see prominent gay critics of porn really. What would even be their gripe. Im curious what you're referring to with that

This very thread was made by a gay guy, That sees predominantly straight men in locker room settings, not as willing to be as openly naked to his comfort, and he attributes it to unrealistic male body standards formed by porn.
In the assertive aspects of male heterosexuality(methodology, sexual expectations) you're not going to hear many gripes from gay men as to porns affect, but in the more passive aspects(comfortability with same sex nudity and physical contact, two things that coincidentally serve the gay male gaze) all of a sudden, the gay men will take up the microphone from the straight women, who have no value in men's communal nudity and non sexual physical intimacy.

 

[Sagittarius84]

Also look how the world tends to respond to positive examples of male non sexual intimacy, especially that of heterosexual men...deep platonic male intimacy like that of say, Captain America and the Winter Soldier is labeled a "bromance" by primarily women, who will then stand arm in arm with LGBT folk at casting men as homophobic when they insist these relationships do not have an underlying sexual/romantic tones that the gay and queer communities can feed off of.

 

[bigboaster]

This very thread was made by a gay guy, That sees predominantly straight men in locker room settings, not as willing to be as openly naked to his comfort, and he attributes it to unrealistic male body standards formed by porn.

I get that but that isn't particularly specific to his being gay is it? I think some straight anti-porn advocates might have a similar take if asked.

In the assertive aspects of male heterosexuality(methodology, sexual expectations) you're not going to hear many gripes from gay men as to porns affect, but in the more passive aspects(comfortability with same sex nudity and physical contact, two things that coincidentally serve the gay male gaze) all of a sudden, the gay men will take up the microphone from the straight women, who have no value in men's communal nudity and non sexual physical intimacy.

Ah I see now. You brought up the gay male gaze, are you suggesting that the OP and others who share that view think male comfortability with public nudity would just be some way of getting easier eye candy in public or opportunities to feel up straight men? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I mean for some particular pervs, that would be true I think but I did get the impression OP was more concerned with the positive outcomes of public male intimacy and not necessarily the sexual aspect of it. Maybe I misread them.

Also look how the world tends to respond to positive examples of male non sexual intimacy, especially that of heterosexual men...deep platonic male intimacy like that of say, Captain America and the Winter Soldier is labeled a "bromance" by primarily women, who will then stand arm in arm with LGBT folk at casting men as homophobic when they insist these relationships do not have an underlying sexual/romantic tones that the gay and queer communities can feed off of.

You're right. The quickness with which platonic male friendships are immediately sexualized is very common and quite over the top. (Mainly when both parties are conventionally attractive)

I guess that's unavoidable with how subjective art is but it can go overboard. And the suggestion of homophobia if someone pushes back is naturally very knee jerk and obnoxious

 

[Sagittarius84]

Ah I see now. You brought up the gay male gaze, are you suggesting that the OP and others who share that view think male comfortability with public nudity would just be some way of getting easier eye candy in public or opportunities to feel up straight men? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I mean for some particular pervs, that would be true I think but I did get the impression OP was more concerned with the positive outcomes of public male intimacy and not necessarily the sexual aspect of it. Maybe I misread them.

I think the fact that communal nudity(or lack therof) is being posited as the litmus test for male intimacy( and that this suggestion has no echoes amongst the straight female delegation) permanently links this whole discussion to the sexual aspects of male intimacy, to which there's really only a few reasons as to why a gay guy would be concerned as to how men in general(the majority of whom are presumably heterosexual) are freely expressing said intimacy.

I get that but that isn't particularly specific to his being gay is it? I think some straight anti-porn advocates might have a similar take if asked.

I'd be interested as to how many straight anti porn advocates are also advocates for communal male nudity.

 

[Sagittarius84]

Or perhaps here's another take: porn is doing for men and their understanding of intimacy what income and equal rights have done for women over the past few generations when it comes to maintaining families. What I mean by this is women have been afforded a new perspective as to the value of family than in yrs past, because quite frankly income and rights have replaced the need for a man to fulfill them. Interestingly enough, society then looks to men to seek out different ways to essentially prove their utility within a family structure....so with a medium that offers straight men some manner of fulfillment and release without necessitating a woman, why then does society look back at men to restore some measure of intimacy once enjoyed instead of putting the onus upon women to make themselves deserving of the intimacy we'll offer?