Late awakening moment!

[Chrissmarz]

[Disclaimer] I am myself gay and this thread is in no way an excuse for any bigots to say anything homophobic

I am writing this and just letting my thoughts run through so bare with me

I have always thought that queer culture is “in your face” and “unconventional” rightfully so because as queer people we don’t want to adhere to any heteronormative standards. And I have always been an advocate of this although sometimes I felt some people (both queer and hetro) being uncomfortable. Examples of that being drag shows which give themselves the right to sexualise or even inappropriately touch people, or some gay guys thinking less of straight men and assuming they have bad taste or hygiene (let me tell you I’ve had my share of gay guys who haven’t seen the shower in weeks). Never thought about it twice but then a specific thread here made me think hard and deep about things myself and others do (so thank you to whoever was extremely rude to me but your words did stick).

Why do we allow ourselves to flirt with straight guys? Why do we think it’s okay to touch someone without consent? Or creep on that hot guy in the gym? How can we possibly think “sure yeh I’ll turn this straight guy gay and sleep with him, no one is 100% straight”. Well even if he weren’t straight he can just easily not be into you. Maybe we are a minority who think this way (one less person now) but now whenever I think about something like this I try to ask myself if I were a straight man would it be okay? And it’s scary that we give ourselves leeway just for being queer!

It breaks my heart to come to this realisation as someone who’s always been an ally to all vulnerable communities and continuously speak up against the patriarchal system and sexual violence etc.

I don’t know why am I writing all this I guess I just had this awakening moment and wanted to share in case this can be food for thought for anyone! And maybe a way for me to apologise to anyone I harmed or made feel uncomfortable (I know probably none are on this website lol) Cheers!

 

[englad]

I don't really think there's an issue with hitting on someone or lightly flirting with someone if it's done in a way that doesn't overstep and is respectful. That last part is key. To give an example, when I've been hit on by women, there's only been one time I've responded rudely. That was because she asked if I wanted to fuck in the toilets in a gay club. Regardless of whether that was a sincere request or not, the venue made it extremely inappropriate. On all other occasions, a polite "I'm flattered, but no thank you." Has been enough.

There are significant problems of disrespecting boundaries in our spaces, and how we treat each other in particular. As if it's fine to touch each other without consent or attempting to gauge interest beforehand. As a sexual violence survivor myself, this strikes home for me.

Creepy behaviour needs to be challenged to create a healthier environment. And I will call that out regardless of the orientation of the person. Respecting the humanity of others and a person's right to be unviolated is of paramount importance.

I think the lionisation of straight masculinity by some members of our community is primarily down to internalised homophobia.

I also have a lot of sympathy for the expectations that straight men are expected to perform, and I do feel to an extent they are more imprisoned by masculinity than we are.

But given the substantial power imbalance between queer and straight men, I really struggle to give a fuck if some of us hold negative stereotypes about them. What power does that actually have? If they start worrying about whether it's safe for them to show PDA with their partners, or have slurs thrown at them in the street for existing, or worry about whether dressing in too straight a way might incite hostility, or worry about whether the group they're speaking to would accept them for being straight, or worry if they could be attacked for looking at someone for a couple seconds too long, then I would give more of a fuck. And especially given the rising transphobia and homophobia in society, it's hard to give a fuck about our stereotypes about them. Until that time, I'll be a lot more invested in detoxifying our spaces for other queer men, so they remain safe spaces for all of us. We need them in a heteronormative society.

 

[Chrissmarz]

I don't really think there's an issue with hitting on someone or lightly flirting with someone if it's done in a way that doesn't overstep and is respectful. That last part is key. To give an example, when I've been hit on by women, there's only been one time I've responded rudely. That was because she asked if I wanted to fuck in the toilets in a gay club. Regardless of whether that was a sincere request or not, the venue made it extremely inappropriate. On all other occasions, a polite "I'm flattered, but no thank you." Has been enough.

There are significant problems of disrespecting boundaries in our spaces, and how we treat each other in particular. As if it's fine to touch each other without consent or attempting to gauge interest beforehand. As a sexual violence survivor myself, this strikes home for me.

Creepy behaviour needs to be challenged to create a healthier environment. And I will call that out regardless of the orientation of the person. Respecting the humanity of others and a person's right to be unviolated is of paramount importance.

I think the lionisation of straight masculinity by some members of our community is primarily down to internalised homophobia.

I also have a lot of sympathy for the expectations that straight men are expected to perform, and I do feel to an extent they are more imprisoned by masculinity than we are.

But given the substantial power imbalance between queer and straight men, I really struggle to give a fuck if some of us hold negative stereotypes about them. What power does that actually have? If they start worrying about whether it's safe for them to show PDA with their partners, or have slurs thrown at them in the street for existing, or worry about whether dressing in too straight a way might incite hostility, or worry about whether the group they're speaking to would accept them for being straight, or worry if they could be attacked for looking at someone for a couple seconds too long, then I would give more of a fuck. And especially given the rising transphobia and homophobia in society, it's hard to give a fuck about our stereotypes about them. Until that time, I'll be a lot more invested in detoxifying our spaces for other queer men, so they remain safe spaces for all of us. We need them in a heteronormative society.

Thank you and I think you are very brave and strong to speak up and had endured what you had endured. I agree that the power dynamics definitely play a huge role and I definitely don’t think we need to feel bad for hetero-cis people but we as a community need to do better for ourselves and people who love us and care about us. I rarely go to gay clubs anymore, only pubs or bars, because non-consensual touching is so normalised to a point that just being there makes me anxious and uncomfortable.
And on stereotyping straight people, I think stereotypes and generalisation as a concept is bad. I see it as generalisations and stereotyping groups of people who weren’t oppressed and while this might be less serious or dangerous than stereotyping vulnerable communities it still isn’t right.