Moral Dilemma: Porn Or Person?

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wallyj84

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That's actually an easy question. The human being - not because of it being the right choice or god (as if) or morale or any other reason.

Think about it - a world without porn messing up all you guys - a world without porn inches and penis envy. A world without porn teaching guys to be degrading towards women...

Really a no-brainer.

You don't really think porn is the cause of all that, do you? Maybe a part of penis envy is caused by porn, but most of that stuff comes from the innate nature of men.
 

wallyj84

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Porn isn't art. That's an absurd thing to say. They have entirely different purposes.

The purpose of art is to create something of aesthetic value, in such a way that it can be recognized, reflected upon, and appreciated. Classically the aim was to create something beautiful, which would stir a feeling of sublimity. The precise aesthetic value aimed for has become looser in modern art. It could be something revolting the artist wishes to create, instead of beautiful. But the same intentional structure of recognition and appreciation of a representation of aesthetic value remains.

That simply is not the purpose of porn. The purpose of porn is excite the more base senses, i.e. to make the viewer horny. Aesthetic value in the artistic sense is irrelevant to the aim of porn. No reflection or mental appreciation is necessary or relevant for pornography to accomplish its designs. If the viewer gets sexually aroused and is motivated to watch more to self-stimulate, then the porn has been successful.

Of course, such absurd misinterpretations of porn that make it sound more dignified than it really is do help to maintain porn's mainstream, quasi-respected status and appeal. So it makes sense that the porn industry would promote this kind of nonsense.

Do you mean you can't appreciate the beauty of a money shot? I feel sorry for you if that is really the case. A money shot is the ultimate expression of male power, sexuality and fragility. All that needs to be understood about men can be seen in a money shot. If you can't see that, then the problem isn't porn but your unwillingness to interact with it on a deeper level.

You dismiss porn because it appeals to base emotions, but those base emotions are the foundation for the "higher level" emotions you seem so obsessed with. It is that basic emotionality that separates us from machines and makes us human. The way that porn can appeal to us on such a basic level makes it the greatest type of art. Hell considering how simple it is, porn was probably the first art. When you talk about porn, put some respect on it. It matters.
 

malakos

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Do you mean you can't appreciate the beauty of a money shot?

What precisely beauty is is difficult to pin down. So while I suspect that beauty doesn't pertain here, I won't attempt to make an argument that a "money shot" could not be beautiful.

That porn cannot be beautiful is not the point I was trying to make, though. The point I was making was about the intentions and designs of the crafter, which is a more useful basis for defining the various crafts than whatever some observer may be able to make of a product.

To reiterate: the intention/design of a pornographer is simply to make his/her audience sexually aroused, while the intention/design of an artist is to stir the audience to reflection upon the artistic representation, ideally to recognize in it something of aesthetic value. The artist has no inherent interest in arousing his/her audience in the way the pornographer does, but only to provoke aesthetic reflection. In turn, the pornographer has no inherent interest in provoking aesthetic reflection, but only to make the audience turned on.

Porn and art are fundamentally different in what they are aiming to accomplish.
 

wallyj84

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What precisely beauty is is difficult to pin down. So while I suspect that beauty doesn't pertain here, I won't attempt to make an argument that a "money shot" could not be beautiful.

That porn cannot be beautiful is not the point I was trying to make, though. The point I was making was about the intentions and designs of the crafter, which is a more useful basis for defining the various crafts than whatever some observer may be able to make of a product.

To reiterate: the intention/design of a pornographer is simply to make his/her audience sexually aroused, while the intention/design of an artist is to stir the audience to reflection upon the artistic representation, ideally to recognize in it something of aesthetic value. The artist has no inherent interest in arousing his/her audience in the way the pornographer does, but only to provoke aesthetic reflection. In turn, the pornographer has no inherent interest in provoking aesthetic reflection, but only to make the audience turned on.

Porn and art are fundamentally different in what they are aiming to accomplish.

Are you familiar with the concept of "death of the author"? It applies here. Art exists separate from the artist. It has it's own meaning and purpose that might be different from what the artist originally intended. That is what is happening with pornography. The artists who make the porn might be meaning to only excite, but they're creating a deep work that comments on our society, gender, race and of course sexuality.

Porn is art.
 

Tight_N_Juicy

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Art can be recreated. Individual human beings cannot.

So.... I don't give a fuck about whatever the art is being destroyed. If I have to choose between saving it or a person who as far as I know it's completely innocent it's an easy decision.

Even though I kinda fucking hate people. I have this instinct to preserve my own species even though I know how fucking arrogant we actually are collectively.
 

EllieP

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I don't make judgment about people until they force it. I'll swoop in and save the guy.

Now, I know repercussions might follow. Was it his porn stash? Did he create it? Did he destroy all other porn and hoard this trove to lord it over others?

What was he doing before the fire? Did he start it? I don't know, and I don't care.

Those questions are for others to figure out. I saved him, and now I have a secret identity to protect.
 

TinyPrincess

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You don't really think porn is the cause of all that, do you? Maybe a part of penis envy is caused by porn, but most of that stuff comes from the innate nature of men.
Porn plays a very large part of it
 

wallyj84

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Art can be recreated. Individual human beings cannot.

So.... I don't give a fuck about whatever the art is being destroyed. If I have to choose between saving it or a person who as far as I know it's completely innocent it's an easy decision.

Even though I kinda fucking hate people. I have this instinct to preserve my own species even though I know how fucking arrogant we actually are collectively.

You might be able to get the same porn actors together and have them recreate the scene, but they'll never be able to do it exactly as they did before. Each moment in pornography is special point in time that can never be recreated. You're fine with losing that moment forever to save a man who has maybe 10 good years left?

If so, I have to congratulate you. Your commitment to the value of human life is truly commendable.
 

Tight_N_Juicy

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You might be able to get the same porn actors together and have them recreate the scene, but they'll never be able to do it exactly as they did before. Each moment in pornography is special point in time that can never be recreated. You're fine with losing that moment forever to save a man who has maybe 10 good years left?

If so, I have to congratulate you. Your commitment to the value of human life is truly commendable.

Those moments don't matter as much as a single human life.

The fact that you start bullshit threads like this makes me question why.
 

Call_Me_Dave

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If porn doesn't matter, then you're saying that Mandingo doesn't matter. You're saying that Lisa Ann doesn't matter. You're destroying both of their legacies their purpose. I can understand valuing the human life more, but you can't just say that porn doesn't matter.
They don’t matter-as adult film stars. I have a hunch that anyone who starred in porn is capable of some other sort of career path. If you are assuming that since porn is gone then they simply vanish into the ether, then this conversation is somehow even more stupid than previously thought.
 

wallyj84

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They don’t matter-as adult film stars. I have a hunch that anyone who starred in porn is capable of some other sort of career path. If you are assuming that since porn is gone then they simply vanish into the ether, then this conversation is somehow even more stupid than previously thought.

Most people are forgotten after 100 years. For someone like Mandingo porn is his shot at history. His chance to be remembered long after 99.9% of humanity has been forgotten about. You really want to take that away from him?
 

Call_Me_Dave

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Most people are forgotten after 100 years. For someone like Mandingo porn is his shot at history. His chance to be remembered long after 99.9% of humanity has been forgotten about. You really want to take that away from him?
If my choice is to save a life or have some guy who was gifted a nice dick be “reduced” to another line of work, then I cannot believe this is a real, adult question. Wait, never mind, I totally, be it unfortunately, can.
 

Motion-of-the-Ocean

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You're fine with losing that moment forever to save a man who has maybe 10 good years left

As someone who hopefully has more than 10 good years left as well as having a wife older than me and doing just fine, you really are trying to make your insane asylum musings into a personal affront.

Now I definitely can conclude your philosophical backfires are the equivalent of brain farts considering the amount of literary diarrhea that comes out of your head.
 
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deleted4500261

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Here is the real question for me...how have you avoided being labeled a troll by the mods this whole time? Your threads are provocative at best but more often than not bleed into troll territory.
The fact that you brought up “size realism” outed your real intentions with these posts which is to try to suck people into combative conversations which is the very definition of troll.
I don’t believe that you are trying to create thoughtful discourse. I believe you are trying to see how far you can push things and still stay in the lines before being banned. Can’t you find anything more productive to do?
 
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deleted4500261

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If my choice is to save a life or have some guy who was gifted a nice dick be “reduced” to another line of work, then I cannot believe this is a real, adult question. Wait, never mind, I totally, be it unfortunately, can.
That’s just it. It isn’t a “real” question. He is playing the innocent provocateur in order to start, what I think he believes, will be a shit show. The innocent act is not believable to me. If you look at his responses after the initial question, he almost always is trying to be controversial to get heated responses....that is a troll and I can’t understand why he’s still here when it’s in the terms and conditions that you can’t do that.
 
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