New Book Thinks Straight Men Who Fuck Men Are Not In Closet

[bigboaster]

If it's one thing I've noticed about bisexuality, it's that gays are far less welcoming than straights. For some strange reason.

I wouldn't say that gays as a whole as less welcoming. That's a bit unfair. But yes there is still a big issue of bi erasure and bi hatred within the gay Community. I don't think anyone would deny that

 

[DiamondJoe]

I wouldn't say that gays as a whole as less welcoming. That's a bit unfair. But yes there is still a big issue of bi erasure and bi hatred within the gay Community. I don't think anyone would deny that

See previous 4 posts...

I've been told all kindsa shite about myself by people who don't even know me

There remains a basic hostility towards bi people, especially men, on the part of the gay people, particularly gay men. They seem to think we're either a) confused b) lying c) going through a phase d) disgusting.

Not all, clearly, but it is something I bump up against and find most amusing.

 

[TreyStephen]

I have a few straight sexual partners.

One is just really into butt stuff and thinks girls will judge him. So I work him over with toys while blowing him. We've never had penetrative sex except him fucking me with a strap on.

The other is a muscle guy that likes to top. When he's really horny he'll suck dick. But never kisses. And when he's come he leaves, so I often finish myself while he's dressing.

Both strike me as heterosexual. The difference I think is mainly kissing. Someone who wants to kiss is at least bi. No kissing and it's just bodies.

 

[bigboaster]

I have a few straight sexual partners.

One is just really into butt stuff and thinks girls will judge him. So I work him over with toys while blowing him. We've never had penetrative sex except him fucking me with a strap on.

The other is a muscle guy that likes to top. When he's really horny he'll suck dick. But never kisses. And when he's come he leaves, so I often finish myself while he's dressing.

Both strike me as heterosexual. The difference I think is mainly kissing. Someone who wants to kiss is at least bi. No kissing and it's just bodies.

So this muscle top fucks you without the need for any pills? The first guy sounds entirely straight since he is just receiving pleasure in a very detached way.

 

[DiamondJoe]

I have a few straight sexual partners.

One is just really into butt stuff and thinks girls will judge him. So I work him over with toys while blowing him. We've never had penetrative sex except him fucking me with a strap on.

The other is a muscle guy that likes to top. When he's really horny he'll suck dick. But never kisses. And when he's come he leaves, so I often finish myself while he's dressing.

Both strike me as heterosexual. The difference I think is mainly kissing. Someone who wants to kiss is at least bi. No kissing and it's just bodies.

Yeah, I used to fuck this beautiful guy - tall, blond, properly athletic and an arse that I could just eat all day - he loved being roughly railed and sucked dick with a kind of reverence but he wouldn't kiss, which I always found most disappointing. He had a gf and would come and see me every three months or so like he was coming in for a service.

To all intents and purposes, straight.

There was a basic disconnect between physical pleasure and romantic attraction.

imo

 

[njersey]

See previous 4 posts...

I've been told all kindsa shite about myself by people who don't even know me

There remains a basic hostility towards bi people, especially men, on the part of the gay people, particularly gay men. They seem to think we're either a) confused b) lying c) going through a phase d) disgusting.

Not all, clearly, but it is something I bump up against and find most amusing.

A lot of gay men feel incredibly limited by their sexuality. There’s a lot of privilege baked into being attracted to women. Or advantages. Or however you want to put it.

In a lot of contexts, we aren’t able to display a normal, human array of sexual behaviors because of the (sometimes) violent reactions of straight men. Just statistically speaking, even if all gay men accepted the advances of another gay man, something like 90% of flirtations would result in rejection. Add to it normal attraction behaviors and it’s probably more like 99%.

That would be enough to entrain resentment towards anyone they perceive as being freer or more accepted. Envy, basically. I’m not immune to it. There are a lot of social advantages I don’t have because I’m not attracted to women. And it would be nice to have uncolored friendships with straight men.

So I think your motive perceptions are mostly incorrect. They view bisexuality as inconsistent with a world where they’re disadvantaged. It only takes a hop and skip to arrive at outright denialism.

I don’t deny bisexuality exists; but I also won’t lie and say that my experience with it is mostly positive. There are a shit ton of guys who want some male side-piece to their otherwise heterosexual relationship, who sometimes conceal the wife or girlfriend. And while I wouldn’t deny them that, it can be emotionally damaging to a gay man.

 

[DiamondJoe]

A lot of gay men feel incredibly limited by their sexuality. There’s a lot of privilege baked into being attracted to women. Or advantages. Or however you want to put it.

In a lot of contexts, we aren’t able to display a normal, human array of sexual behaviors because of the (sometimes) violent reactions of straight men. Just statistically speaking, even if all gay men accepted the advances of another gay man, something like 90% of flirtations would result in rejection. Add to it normal attraction behaviors and it’s probably more like 99%.

That would be enough to entrain resentment towards anyone they perceive as being freer or more accepted. Envy, basically. I’m not immune to it. There are a lot of social advantages I don’t have because I’m not attracted to women. And it would be nice to have uncolored friendships with straight men.

So I think your motive perceptions are mostly incorrect. They view bisexuality as inconsistent with a world where they’re disadvantaged. It only takes a hop and skip to arrive at outright denialism.

I don’t deny bisexuality exists; but I also won’t lie and say that my experience with it is mostly positive. There are a shit ton of guys who want some male side-piece to their otherwise heterosexual relationship, who sometimes conceal the wife or girlfriend. And while I wouldn’t deny them that, it can be emotionally damaging to a gay man.

The other man's grass is always greener...

Ok, so one bisexual man treats you badly and that means all are shites? Isn't it a somewhat lazy preconception about bi guys to say they're all the same? Have all gay men treated you well in your life..?

I'm not getting annoyed with you, promise, but this is important. It pisses me off when people do not believe my own claim of self-knowledge, insisting they know me better than I do.

Bisexual people are a very small, misunderstood minority. It can be highly isolating, with shame and identity uncertainty stemming from cultural norms often displaying through negative stereotypes like hypersexuality or infidelity. People fetishise bisexuality - a very common male fantasy for bi women, which is seen as desirable in a way that male bisexuality isn't. Again, it's lazy and it's dismissive.

I'm not sure "bisexual privilege" holds water either. Bisexual privilege is the idea that bisexual people have the option to avoid the stigma associated with same sex attraction by ignoring it and pursuing fulfilling relationships with the opposite sex. Research shows bisexual people face higher rates of suicide, illness and poverty than lesbian, gay, and straight people, and a lower allocation of resources within the LGBT community to address these issues. The issue is not “bisexual privilege,” but rather, my experience of being granted the straight privilege.

From my POV, I and my sexuality have been extensively denied and derided throughout my life, mostly by gay men. As I say, some will give the "bi now, gay later" line. Plenty of others have told me that I am disgusting and/or dangerous for my sexuality. If I am lucky, I am put in the "unicorn" category, which also pisses me off.


Being bi is not an "easy option". Walking down the middle of the road means dodging traffic from both directions.



Of course, underlying this discussion on both sides is a fuck-ton of toxic masculinity...

 

[tjh1204]

If it's one thing I've noticed about bisexuality, it's that gays are far less welcoming than straights. For some strange reason.

Cause we’ve had to deal with sexual repression and being ostracized. Out gay men have to carry the load societally for all men who have a desire for other men.

There are men who will secretly engage in sex or relationships with men behind close doors. They benefit from the network and efforts of out gay men and trans women. They do not participate in the fight for equal rights.

Yet they affirm their fluidity, rebuff labels when it’s convenient, and hide their attractions. They blend and reap all of the privileges of being recognized as cisgendered heterosexual identifying men.

So, out gay men generally carry a resentment towards these men and those sentiments are shared with women who do not want to date MSM. The degree of resentment or frustration varies across ethnic background, class, and degree of gender conformity.


White cis gendered men (namely bisexual/MSM) are capable of enjoying the most privilege followed by slightly effeminate persons of white or Latin heritage (light complexioned). It’s an issue of privilege and ones ability to publicly dissociate from the negative consequences associated with a homosexual identity.

 

[bigboaster]

Isnt the rate of bisexuality increasing pretty steadily? At least based on polling? Not sure they are such a tiny minority. I imagine more bisexual people exist than openly gay men. Just my opinion though.

 

[DiamondJoe]

Isnt the rate of bisexuality increasing pretty steadily? At least based on polling? Not sure they are such a tiny minority. I imagine more bisexual people exist than openly gay men. Just my opinion though.

Demographics of sexual orientation - Wikipedia

 

[bigboaster]

Demographics of sexual orientation - Wikipedia

From Gallup per a very recent 2020 polling.

More than half of LGBT adults (54.6%) identify as bisexual. About a quarter (24.5%) say they are gay, with 11.7% identifying as lesbian and 11.3% as transgender.

LGBT Identification Rises to 5.6% in Latest U.S. Estimate

 

[DiamondJoe]

From Gallup per a very recent 2020 polling.

More than half of LGBT adults (54.6%) identify as bisexual. About a quarter (24.5%) say they are gay, with 11.7% identifying as lesbian and 11.3% as transgender.

LGBT Identification Rises to 5.6% in Latest U.S. Estimate

Ummm... so your US stats are superior to my UK ones?

If you want to feel squeezed, please be my guest...

ONS stats...

Sexual orientation, UK - Office for National Statistics

 

[bigboaster]

Ummm... so your US stats are superior to my UK ones?

If you want to feel squeezed, please be my guest...

You provided a Wikipedia page my friend. So um yeah.

Gallup is one of the most respected polling agencies in the world. So yes I have more trust in their results (regarding the US). Sorry.

 

[DiamondJoe]

You provided a Wikipedia page my friend. So um yeah.

Gallup is one of the most respected polling agency in the world. So yes I have more trust in their results (regarding the US). Sorry.

Sexual orientation, UK - Office for National Statistics

 

[bigboaster]

Sexual orientation, UK - Office for National Statistics

And I'm sure this polling is perfectly accurate... Regarding the UK. What does this have to do with more openly bisexual people than gay in the US though? Its two different countries.

 

[tjh1204]

Isnt the rate of bisexuality increasing pretty steadily? At least based on polling? Not sure they are such a tiny minority. I imagine more bisexual people exist than openly gay men. Just my opinion though.

If it weren’t for the negative puritanical stigmas, more people would identify as bisexual. In the pagan cultures, bisexuality and sexual hedonism was widespread. Across culture and time bisexuality and homosexuality was rampant. I’d venture to say that over the last half millennia, societal norms have become more sexually repressive. I’d posit that human beings are biologically wired to be primarily bisexual, and having a universal preference is an extreme or outlier.

The prominent world religions have done much to ensure that embracing sexual fluidity would come at a great cost societally. That’s the root of gay men’s frustrations with those that are hetero-identifying or bisexual. Most of us have adopted a very black and white view of bisexuality.

However, it’s my personal belief it’s in response to the great homophobia we have encountered from other men. It’s interesting that research suggest the most homophobic men are usually secretly repressing their homosexual desires and urges.

Bisexual men and cis gendered MSM, have become skilled at manipulating society to secretly navigate getting their sexual needs met. Simultaneously, they avoid any negative repercussions of accepting the men they have sex with as viable partners.

 

[DiamondJoe]

You provided a Wikipedia page my friend. So um yeah.

Gallup is one of the most respected polling agencies in the world. So yes I have more trust in their results (regarding the US). Sorry.

Assuming the trend is that way in the US, surely that's further evidence of plurality and the need for revising outdated preconceptions towards bisexuality

 

[bigboaster]

If it weren’t for the negative puritanical stigmas, more people would identify as bisexual. In the pagan cultures, bisexuality and sexual hedonism was widespread. Across culture and time bisexuality and homosexuality was rampant. I’d venture to say that over the last half millennia, societal norms have become more sexually repressive. I’d posit that human beings are biologically wired to be primarily bisexual, and having a universal preference is an extreme or outlier.

The prominent world religions have done much to ensure that embracing sexual fluidity would come at a great cost societally. That’s the root of gay men’s frustrations with those that are hetero-identifying or bisexual. Most of us have adopted a very black and white view of bisexuality.

However, it’s my personal belief it’s in response to the great homophobia we have encountered from other men. It’s interesting that research suggest the most homophobic men are usually secretly repressing their homosexual desires and urges.

Bisexual men and cis gendered MSM, have become skilled at manipulating society to secretly navigate getting their sexual needs met. Simultaneously, they avoid any negative repercussions of accepting the men they have sex with as viable partners.

I don't agree with every point you made lol but I overall agree on the prominence of bisexuality on past cultures.

I personally think most people are bisexual to some degree. It's a spectrum of course. And we have to take homophobia into account like you said. So that alone is going to skew things as well.

 

[DiamondJoe]

If it weren’t for the negative puritanical stigmas, more people would identify as bisexual. In the pagan cultures, bisexuality and sexual hedonism was widespread. Across culture and time bisexuality and homosexuality was rampant. I’d venture to say that over the last half millennia, societal norms have become more sexually repressive. I’d posit that human beings are biologically wired to be primarily bisexual, and having a universal preference is an extreme or outlier.

The prominent world religions have done much to ensure that embracing sexual fluidity would come at a great cost societally. That’s the root of gay men’s frustrations with those that are hetero-identifying or bisexual. Most of us have adopted a very black and white view of bisexuality.

However, it’s my personal belief it’s in response to the great homophobia we have encountered from other men. It’s interesting that research suggest the most homophobic men are usually secretly repressing their homosexual desires and urges.

Bisexual men and cis gendered MSM, have become skilled at manipulating society to secretly navigate getting their sexual needs met. Simultaneously, they avoid any negative repercussions of accepting the men they have sex with as viable partners.

Toss. Historical and sociological toss.

 

[bigboaster]

Assuming the trend is that way in the US, surely that's further evidence of plurality and the need for revising outdated preconceptions towards bisexuality

That's fair.