new fathers.... to cut or no?

[Ttyl3D]

I mean, not to undermine people feeling different in the locker room but that really isn't an important enough issue to have an unnecessary surgery as a baby. Or even a young kid. You survived embarrassment.

Especially as circumcision rates are going down.

 

[James Bell]

Can I Reply again.
If you have a family history of phimosis.. circumcise your son.
If not...don't.
Simple and end of discussion.

I'm afraid that you seem to fail to distinguish between 'unnecessary' and 'of no benefit".

Almost all elective surgery (such as joint replacements, hernia repair and cataract surgery) is technically 'unnecessary'. No one dies of osteoarthritis, hernias (well, not unless strangulated) or cataracts. It is a choice to proceed or not. This does not, however, mean that those procedures are of no benefit -although all carry the risk of complications or harm.

So when you say that routine or prophylactic circumcision is 'unnecessary' that is technically true in many cases -but, by definition untrue for the small but definite number of boys who will go on to develop pathology.

It's also untrue for a larger but greyer are of the population in terms off reducing STD prevention (including cervical cancer). Then there's the aesthetic/cultural factors.

Just to be clear, IDK the consent law in continental Europe (although I imagine it's the same as the UK). But here procedures on children are fully consented for by their parents, as children are not considered mentally competent until 16 (15 in some circumstances).

So there has to be full legal consent for any procedure to a child, including circumcision.

IDK whether you are a parent or not, but if you are you will be aware that every day you will make decisions, some small, some large that will shape your child's life. Some are easy, some hard. Some may make only a minuscule difference to his or her life. Others will change it irrevocably. Many, such as vaccination and where to send them to school, will change your sons' lives far more than whether or not to have them circumcised. But theyl be your responsibility as a parent, and I don't for one moment dispute your right to make them.

It is/will be your burden as a parent to make those decisions in an informed and responsible manor -and to respect the rights of other parents to make their own decision.

It comes down to (maybe) Voltaire: "I disagree with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it."

 

[DavidAlmeria]

I'm afraid that you seem to fail to distinguish between 'unnecessary' and 'of no benefit".

Almost all elective surgery (such as joint replacements, hernia repair and cataract surgery) is technically 'unnecessary'. No one dies of osteoarthritis, hernias (well, not unless strangulated) or cataracts. It is a choice to proceed or not. This does not, however, mean that those procedures are of no benefit -although all carry the risk of complications or harm.

So when you say that routine or prophylactic circumcision is 'unnecessary' that is technically true in many cases -but, by definition untrue for the small but definite number of boys who will go on to develop pathology.

It's also untrue for a larger but greyer are of the population in terms off reducing STD prevention (including cervical cancer). Then there's the aesthetic/cultural factors.

Just to be clear, IDK the consent law in continental Europe (although I imagine it's the same as the UK). But here procedures on children are fully consented for by their parents, as children are not considered mentally competent until 16 (15 in some circumstances).

So there has to be full legal consent for any procedure to a child, including circumcision.

IDK whether you are a parent or not, but if you are you will be aware that every day you will make decisions, some small, some large that will shape your child's life. Some are easy, some hard. Some may make only a minuscule difference to his or her life. Others will change it irrevocably. Many, such as vaccination and where to send them to school, will change your sons' lives far more than whether or not to have them circumcised. But theyl be your responsibility as a parent, and I don't for one moment dispute your right to make them.

It is/will be your burden as a parent to make those decisions in an informed and responsible manor -and to respect the rights of other parents to make their own decision.

It comes down to (maybe) Voltaire: "I disagree with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it."

I really wasn't referring to elective surgery or Voltaire.
Just saying that my father had to be circumcised due to infection caused by phimosis at the age of 50. I had to be circumcised because of infection caused by phimosis at aged 50.
Logic tells me that if I had a son it might happen to him so I would have him circumcised at birth.

It's really very little to do with Voltaire

 

[St00vie]

I mean, not to undermine people feeling different in the locker room but that really isn't an important enough issue to have an unnecessary surgery as a baby. Or even a young kid. You survived embarrassment.

Especially as circumcision rates are going down.

They stopped tonsillectomies and appendix removal when they realised they were unnecessary.

Imagine a culture in which ears were cut off, everyone wanted it in case they looked different.

But you are right, we should be respectful of that feeling. Of course, if everyone stopped at once…

 

[James Bell]

Apenciectomies still go, mainly as emergencies.

The rate of tonsillectomies has gone down in the NHS.

But commensurably up in the private sector.
A bit like circumcission in the UK, the vast majority of which occurs in private clinics.

 

[thickgeo]

medical necessity aside, circumcision seems like a relic of a bygone age. i find them to be aesthetically off-putting in general. thousands of years of evolution gave males a cover for their glands; it serves a purpose. being worried about "not fitting" seems a bit overboard, as homosocial culture (decline in locker room nudity, nude bathing, conscription, etc.) has vastly changed in the past 50 years to warrant such a consequential procedure. all the women I've ever slept with actually wound up preferring my uncircumsized penis to circumsized ones. i know that's anecdotal, but I feel like the worries about rejection are overblown. people are more open-minded these days. no need to make your dick look like a scarred up, shriveled hot dog.

 

[deleted5199391]

Teach your son hygiene, so you don't have to circumcise an infant.

 

[Stu311]

I mean, not to undermine people feeling different in the locker room but that really isn't an important enough issue to have an unnecessary surgery as a baby. Or even a young kid. You survived embarrassment.

Especially as circumcision rates are going down.

In the US. Globally they are likely going up. Agreed that perceived embarrassment at being or not being circumcised is not a good reason to make a decision on. From a wider historical perspective, circumcision has been with us for millennia and I don’t think it will ever go away. From a strictly medical perspective there is nothing wrong whichever way you go (marginal benefits for circumcision with marginal risks during surgery), so it is pretty much a cultural/religious issue. You can’t really debate it without passing some degree of moral judgement which makes threads like this well… moot.

 

[circedbychoice]

In the US. Globally they are likely going up. Agreed that perceived embarrassment at being or not being circumcised is not a good reason to make a decision on. From a wider historical perspective, circumcision has been with us for millennia and I don’t think it will ever go away. From a strictly medical perspective there is nothing wrong whichever way you go (marginal benefits for circumcision with marginal risks during surgery), so it is pretty much a cultural/religious issue. You can’t really debate it without passing some degree of moral judgement which makes threads like this well… moot.

Speaking for myself I was greatly pleased the day I got circumcised. So it mattered to me to be circumcised. I don't give a hoot in hell what others say about it not being necessary or circumcision rates going down. It was a personal preference to become circumcised as an adult, since my parents didn't have it done when I was born.

 

[Ttyl3D]

Speaking for myself I was greatly pleased the day I got circumcised. So it mattered to me to be circumcised. I don't give a hoot in hell what others say about it not being necessary or circumcision rates going down. It was a personal preference to become circumcised as an adult, since my parents didn't have it done when I was born.

You are within your right to be circumcised as adult.

My issue is making children/those who cannot consent go through with it.

I do feel for adults who have circumcision for cosmetic reasons, society fucks with people's minds. (Not assuming that's why you did it).

 

[Ttyl3D]

In the US. Globally they are likely going up. Agreed that perceived embarrassment at being or not being circumcised is not a good reason to make a decision on. From a wider historical perspective, circumcision has been with us for millennia and I don’t think it will ever go away. From a strictly medical perspective there is nothing wrong whichever way you go (marginal benefits for circumcision with marginal risks during surgery), so it is pretty much a cultural/religious issue. You can’t really debate it without passing some degree of moral judgement which makes threads like this well… moot.

I want to say overall in the world they are also going down.

 

[Stu311]

@Ttyl3D Do you have any evidence? I am skeptical because Muslim populations are going up. The Western world is in demographic decline and Latin America is approaching stagnation.

 

[circedbychoice]

You are within your right to be circumcised as adult.

My issue is making children/those who cannot consent go through with it.

I do feel for adults who have circumcision for cosmetic reasons, society fucks with people's minds. (Not assuming that's why you did it).

But I wish my parents had had me circumcised when I was born. I hated not being circumcised during my teenage years.

 

[Pourtia]

This thing affects from religion and countries. Europe most people here we have the extra “meat” but America the opposite. I think the best is cut for hygiene reasons. But if someone grow up with uncut don’t change the dick because it’s very painful at this age,

 

[Ttyl3D]

@Ttyl3D Do you have any evidence? I am skeptical because Muslim populations are going up. The Western world is in demographic decline and Latin America is approaching stagnation.

I just googled it.

 

[Ttyl3D]

This thing affects from religion and countries. Europe most people here we have the extra “meat” but America the opposite. I think the best is cut for hygiene reasons. But if someone grow up with uncut don’t change the dick because it’s very painful at this age,

Just washing suffices, there is no hygiene benefit to circumcision.

 

[Pourtia]

washing cut or uncut it's necessary. But it's easier for microbes at uncut dick. i dont have problem uncut or cut dick. i have uncut. i am just saying the facts

 

[Mcuthigh]

I'm afraid that you seem to fail to distinguish between 'unnecessary' and 'of no benefit".

Almost all elective surgery (such as joint replacements, hernia repair and cataract surgery) is technically 'unnecessary'. No one dies of osteoarthritis, hernias (well, not unless strangulated) or cataracts. It is a choice to proceed or not. This does not, however, mean that those procedures are of no benefit -although all carry the risk of complications or harm.

So when you say that routine or prophylactic circumcision is 'unnecessary' that is technically true in many cases -but, by definition untrue for the small but definite number of boys who will go on to develop pathology.

It's also untrue for a larger but greyer are of the population in terms off reducing STD prevention (including cervical cancer). Then there's the aesthetic/cultural factors.

Just to be clear, IDK the consent law in continental Europe (although I imagine it's the same as the UK). But here procedures on children are fully consented for by their parents, as children are not considered mentally competent until 16 (15 in some circumstances).

So there has to be full legal consent for any procedure to a child, including circumcision.

IDK whether you are a parent or not, but if you are you will be aware that every day you will make decisions, some small, some large that will shape your child's life. Some are easy, some hard. Some may make only a minuscule difference to his or her life. Others will change it irrevocably. Many, such as vaccination and where to send them to school, will change your sons' lives far more than whether or not to have them circumcised. But theyl be your responsibility as a parent, and I don't for one moment dispute your right to make them.

It is/will be your burden as a parent to make those decisions in an informed and responsible manor -and to respect the rights of other parents to make their own decision.

It comes down to (maybe) Voltaire: "I disagree with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it."

James……you present in a very lucid fashion that which is logical and beautifully expressed.

As to answering the original question: New Fathers…..Cut or not cut? YES, I will choose Circumcisions for my sons unless it is am reviewed and compared the costs,

 

[dodong]

Although I am cut, I would like to let my son (if I will have one) to decide whether he wants to do it or not.

 

[Pourtia]

Although I am cut, I would like to let my son (if I will have one) to decide whether he wants to do it or not.

i think its wrong