Sam Smith "I'm not here to make friends" video

[Jeffer2580]

I think Sam Smith is a very easy scapegoat for the current gay panic we're seeing crop back up, but I don't think anything in the video was any more egregious than say, Wet Ass Pussy (another video I dearly loved). Any music that celebrates sexuality from a vantage point that's usually disempowered is gonna face controversy, and I can't help but feel that Sam's fatness has subjected them to a level of scrutiny they otherwise wouldn't be facing if they were conventionally attractive (read: skinny).

As for the concern that this is giving the gay/trans community a "bad name," I have to ask, is it worth trying to play respectability with a subset of the population that will always see our very existence as deviant? Because I think it's a losing battle.

I wish I could like this a billion times

 

[chrisrobin]

I wish I could like this a billion times

"it" would do anything to generate interest to get over his lack of talent.

 

[ceriewoman]

It’s so damn easy to just use their pronouns! They’re right there! Grade school bully pettiness, and for what?

 

[Peter1999]

I think Sam Smith is a very easy scapegoat for the current gay panic we're seeing crop back up, but I don't think anything in the video was any more egregious than say, Wet Ass Pussy (another video I dearly loved). Any music that celebrates sexuality from a vantage point that's usually disempowered is gonna face controversy, and I can't help but feel that Sam's fatness has subjected them to a level of scrutiny they otherwise wouldn't be facing if they were conventionally attractive (read: skinny).

As for the concern that this is giving the gay/trans community a "bad name," I have to ask, is it worth trying to play respectability with a subset of the population that will always see our very existence as deviant? Because I think it's a losing battle.

This statement is incorrect.

WAP has heavily criticized on the right. Many conservative YouTube channels like Ben Shapiro went after Cardi B.

Also, are you forgetting Montero from Lil Nas? Huge outrage for that. Both Cardi B and Lil Nas are in shape. This isn't a fat issue. It's an issue of hypersexuality

 

[Peter1999]

I used to have respect for Sam Smith and loved his music. I even had a crush on him during his album The Thrill of It All and that James Bond song.

That's long gone. I don't understand what your identity has to do with extremely sexual and provocative imagery. This whole "sexuality in your face" attitude does nothing more than prove the haters right. Sam Smith and celebrities like him are causing more harm.

 

[999998997]

This statement is incorrect.

WAP has heavily criticized on the right. Many conservative YouTube channels like Ben Shapiro went after Cardi B.

Also, are you forgetting Montero from Lil Nas? Huge outrage for that. Both Cardi B and Lil Nas are in shape. This isn't a fat issue. It's an issue of hypersexuality

Where did ceriewoman say, or even imply, that WAP did not get scrutiny from the right? I think they were using it as another example of culture war outrage.

 

[Peter1999]

Where did ceriewoman say, or even imply, that WAP did not get scrutiny from the right? I think they were using it as another example of culture war outrage.

You didn't understand what I was replying to. It's you that didn't understand.

They never specifically said WAP wasn't targeted, they said:
"I think Sam Smith is a very easy scapegoat for the current gay panic we're seeing crop back up, but I don't think anything in the video was any more egregious than say, Wet Ass Pussy"
"I can't help but feel that Sam's fatness has subjected them to a level of scrutiny they otherwise wouldn't be facing if they were conventionally attractive (read: skinny)"

 

[hisiff maji]

You didn't understand what I was replying to. It's you that didn't understand.

They never specifically said WAP wasn't targeted, they said:
"I think Sam Smith is a very easy scapegoat for the current gay panic we're seeing crop back up, but I don't think anything in the video was any more egregious than say, Wet Ass Pussy"
"I can't help but feel that Sam's fatness has subjected them to a level of scrutiny they otherwise wouldn't be facing if they were conventionally attractive (read: skinny)"

You’re probably right if Sam was more conventionally attractive or in shape the blowback would’ve been less. But I think the way he dressed was simply hilarious while also as sexual as possible. I’ve met and heard many of the same type of people call Wet Ass Pussy the most vile shit they’ve ever seen, and call the artists whores. Whether you believe in sexual liberation or not, I don’t think going the WAP direction is good for the most misunderstood fear-mongered minority in the country. Right wingers are trying hard to paint us all as dangerous psycho perverts to the masses who don’t get real exposure to LGBT people. Trans and non binary people don’t exactly have a lot of famous positive icons who help fight that image, not yet.

 

[Peter1999]

You’re probably right if Sam was more conventionally attractive or in shape the blowback would’ve been less. But I think the way he dressed was simply hilarious while also as sexual as possible. I’ve met and heard many of the same type of people call Wet Ass Pussy the most vile shit they’ve ever seen, and call the artists whores. Whether you believe in sexual liberation or not, I don’t think going the WAP direction is good for the most misunderstood fear-mongered minority in the country. Right wingers are trying hard to paint us all as dangerous psycho perverts to the masses who don’t get real exposure to LGBT people. Trans and non binary people don’t exactly have a lot of famous positive icons who help fight that image, not yet.

I never said that. I'm saying that Lil Nas X and Cardi B both received blowback from the right and neither of them are big. It's not a size issue, it's a hypersexualized issue.

Yes, it's weird that right wingers have been crying a river over perversion in the LGBT community and then Sam Smith comes along and delivers it in spades for them.

Can't we be LGBT and not be so sexualized? Can't we be respectable? Society only sees what we put out. I've been to pride events in the early 2000's and they weren't as sexualized as they are now. I don't remember seeing topless women, men in dog masks wearing underwear, people on leashes and people in assless chaps. Sure, some of the kinks have been around, but it wasn't as pronounced for everyone to see.

We can sit here and mock the right for painting us one dimensional, but I also see that they kind of have a point. I mean Christina Aguilera was at pride last year dressed like this....

 

[kjehe3]

I'm curious... it's not Sam Smith but it's somewhat related. What do people think about Harry Styles?

 

[Peter1999]

I'm curious... it's not Sam Smith but it's somewhat related. What do people think about Harry Styles?

Moderately attractive gay-baiter, but this is off-topic.

 

[Andrej_u]

I never said that. I'm saying that Lil Nas X and Cardi B both received blowback from the right and neither of them are big. It's not a size issue, it's a hypersexualized issue.

Yes, it's weird that right wingers have been crying a river over perversion in the LGBT community and then Sam Smith comes along and delivers it in spades for them.

Can't we be LGBT and not be so sexualized? Can't we be respectable? Society only sees what we put out. I've been to pride events in the early 2000's and they weren't as sexualized as they are now. I don't remember seeing topless women, men in dog masks wearing underwear, people on leashes and people in assless chaps. Sure, some of the kinks have been around, but it wasn't as pronounced for everyone to see.

We can sit here and mock the right for painting us one dimensional, but I also see that they kind of have a point. I mean Christina Aguilera was at pride last year dressed like this....

View attachment 94848691

Haters gonna hate even if we go to pride parades dressed in suit and tie, patting each other on the shoulder and telling our haters that we are amazingly respectable. I won't throw all the immense diversity of the LGBTQ+ community under the bus, just to please Matt Walsh who will go on hating me anyway.

P.S.: prides in 2000 were less sexualised... And yet the LGBTQ community is much much more accepted now than in the 2000s, despite (or maybe thanks to?) the increase in sexual freedom/representation.

 

[hisiff maji]

Haters gonna hate even if we go to pride parades dressed in suit and tie, patting each other on the shoulder and telling our haters that we are amazingly respectable. I won't throw all the immense diversity of the LGBTQ+ community under the bus, just to please Matt Walsh who will go on hating me anyway.

P.S.: prides in 2000 were less sexualised... And yet the LGBTQ community is much much more accepted now than in the 2000s, despite (or maybe thanks to?) the increase in sexual freedom/representation.

LGBT isn’t more accepted now because of sexual freedom, the sexual part of pride freaks out most of the country. It’s propaganda for the right.
Gays are more accepted because mainstream society realized we are their brothers, their sons, their best friends, their friendly coworker, that trustworthy best friend who finally felt comfortable sharing his whole self. We are human and (mostly) not all that different from them in the ways that matter most.

 

[Peter1999]

Haters gonna hate even if we go to pride parades dressed in suit and tie, patting each other on the shoulder and telling our haters that we are amazingly respectable. I won't throw all the immense diversity of the LGBTQ+ community under the bus, just to please Matt Walsh who will go on hating me anyway.

P.S.: prides in 2000 were less sexualised... And yet the LGBTQ community is much much more accepted now than in the 2000s, despite (or maybe thanks to?) the increase in sexual freedom/representation.

Yes, there will always be people that dislike us for simply existing, but I think there would be far less. I went to pride events during 2009. It was a bit less sexualized and I don't remember hearing much negativity. One or two lunatics on megaphones was all.

So let's use the logic you used. If prides were less sexualized in the early 2000's, wouldn't that be the reason why it was accepted over time and why we're hearing such an outcry now? Social justice fights aren't won overnight...

 

[Andrej_u]

Yes, there will always be people that dislike us for simply existing, but I think there would be far less. I went to pride events during 2009. It was a bit less sexualized and I don't remember hearing much negativity. One or two lunatics on megaphones was all.

So let's use the logic you used. If prides were less sexualized in the early 2000's, wouldn't that be the reason why it was accepted over time and why we're hearing such an outcry now? Social justice fights aren't won overnight...

So I wanna clarify. There is no logic in what I said: correlation doesn't mean causation, and it is extremely difficult to prove whether sexualisation of prides helped, damaged or was neutral to the LGBTQ+ cause. That's the point I was trying to make: even if we say that it is damaging, we are winning anyway.

But the point is: who cares?
If someone is offended by my sexuality... It's their problem, not mine. They can suck my balls. They are the ones who need to change, not me!
This is the logical fallacy. Changing (or better: hiding and shaming) people's identities, to appear more respectable to those who hate us is wrong, and it is not going to work anyway. Haters are the ones who need to be shamed for their backward ideas.

And in terms of prides... I went to my first pride in Italy in 2010. Some vile coward threw an egg on the face of the girl next to me. She ended up with a black eye and a huge bruise on her face. At the time you had stuff like "counter-demonstrations", often a mixture of religious extremists, neo-nazis and "respectable people", typically using bullshit excuses like being worried for children in order to hate on gays. It used to be perfectly acceptable to say stuff like "if we allow gay marriage now, in 10 years we'll end up allowing zoophilia".

Now that the haters lost their battle against gays and lesbians, they shifted their target to transgender and non-binary people. Let them whine.

 

[Peter1999]

So I wanna clarify. There is no logic in what I said: correlation doesn't mean causation, and it is extremely difficult to prove whether sexualisation of prides helped, damaged or was neutral to the LGBTQ+ cause. That's the point I was trying to make: even if we say that it is damaging, we are winning anyway.

But the point is: who cares?
If someone is offended by my sexuality... It's their problem, not mine. They can suck my balls. They are the ones who need to change, not me!
This is the logical fallacy. Changing (or better: hiding and shaming) people's identities, to appear more respectable to those who hate us is wrong, and it is not going to work anyway. Haters are the ones who need to be shamed for their backward ideas.

And in terms of prides... I went to my first pride in Italy in 2010. Some vile coward threw an egg on the face of the girl next to me. She ended up with a black eye and a huge bruise on her face. At the time you had stuff like "counter-demonstrations", often a mixture of religious extremists, neo-nazis and "respectable people", typically using bullshit excuses like being worried for children in order to hate on gays. It used to be perfectly acceptable to say stuff like "if we allow gay marriage now, in 10 years we'll end up allowing zoophilia".

Now that the haters lost their battle against gays and lesbians, they shifted their target to transgender and non-binary people. Let them whine.

I see both sides and I agree that there will always be people that hate to hate. That's 100% true.

I just think prides have become far too sexual. I remember how the sexual side of prides were kept in adult bars or inside the 21+ festival portions. That's where people could slut out.

I am however seeing people in dog masks, in underwear or assless chaps walking the streets. I just don't see how any of this does anything other than to get your kinks on. At least do this in private settings and not walking past several businesses down to pride parade areas. We can be prideful without the need to be nude. There's no correlation

 

[Andrej_u]

I see both sides and I agree that there will always be people that hate to hate. That's 100% true.

I just think prides have become far too sexual. I remember how the sexual side of prides were kept in adult bars or inside the 21+ festival portions. That's where people could slut out.

I am however seeing people in dog masks, in underwear or assless chaps walking the streets. I just don't see how any of this does anything other than to get your kinks on. At least do this in private settings and not walking past several businesses down to pride parade areas. We can be prideful without the need to be nude. There's no correlation

I come from the other side of the pond, where sex tends to be much more in your face
I mean, even on Google Maps you can see semi-naked sex workers behind the windows in Amsterdam centre, in the middle of the day. And on the same street there is a kindergarten, with presumably many of the children of the workers. Google Maps
And I mean, more or less anywhere you go, you see things like these: Google Maps

So yeah, if this is normal in the centre of Amsterdam every day, then some assless chaps once per year are also normal. In a place where this is not so widespread... Then yeah I can see the merit of not being too sexualised on a public street.

 

[Peter1999]

I come from the other side of the pond, where sex tends to be much more in your face
I mean, even on Google Maps you can see semi-naked sex workers behind the windows in Amsterdam centre, in the middle of the day. And on the same street there is a kindergarten, with presumably many of the children of the workers. Google Maps
And I mean, more or less anywhere you go, you see things like these: Google Maps

So yeah, if this is normal in the centre of Amsterdam every day, then some assless chaps once per year are also normal. In a place where this is not so widespread... Then yeah I can see the merit of not being too sexualised on a public street.

Ah okay sorry, didn't notice that. Here in America, it's a little less in your face. There has been much more sexualization of society though. It's still seen as shameful here. Less sexualized people are more respected, whereas heavily sexualized people are seen as sl*ts.

Sam Smith is from England though. It's much more conservative than America there. There's a reason why there's such a backlash.