nolbaby

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A lot of twitter-educated people have, from minute 1, accused anybody who questioned the 2020 presidential election of being at best a conspiracy theorist and at worst a white supremacist on a mission to overthrow America. I'm sure this post will be met with raging accusations of right wing terrorism and baseless claims of voter fraud, but since twitter, facebook, cnn, nbc, and the ny times certainly won't be informing anyone of this stuff, I might as well. You don't have to fire back at me, as these are simply facts of what has happened, as opposed to being my opinion on anything:

I live in maricopa county, arizona. This is the 1 place in the entire country where the state senate decided to actually do any kind of inspection on the election results, even though tens of millions of people all over the country requested it be done. There is a private outfit doing an audit of the voting machines, ballots, etc. There were over 2 million votes certified in maricopa county, so doing an audit by hand takes several weeks. it has been going on for a few weeks at this point. the state secretary, who is a very outspoken trump hater, and who has gone so far as to refer to all trump voters as neo-nazis, has done everything she could do to delay and/or interfere with the audit. mind you, nobody doing the audit has ever said that the goal is to overturn the 2020 election. their purpose has always been to find any and all types of fraud that happened in the 2020 election so that the system can be fixed if it is found to be flawed and corrupted. they just want to know what the actual votes were. the most logical thing to do would have been to immediately do an entirely transparent audit in front of everybody to finally prove that either the claims of fraud are truly baseless, or that there was a lot of fraud going on. there's a simple principal that people who are telling the truth don't fear or mind being investigated. why would they?

the state secretary and election committees have wanted nothing to do with being investigated. the state senate finally demanded an audit be done after months of people calling for it. since it has been underway, the elections committees have
1) claimed that they didn't have the passwords to access the data bases in the voting machines, which delayed the audit. they claimed that only Dominion, the company that makes the voting machines, has those passwords. to claim that they don't even have the passwords to access their own information is obviously absurd. if that were true, it would mean that a private, foreign company has more control of the voting data than the county government does.
2) hired people to line the entryways into the arena where the audit is taking place and harass the people as they drive in to the parking lot, most of whom are little old ladies who are volunteering. this actually isn't happening much anymore because they have security now, but it happened a lot at the beginning.
3) they just discovered yesterday or the day before that a bunch of the databases, which the state election committees are required by law to keep for 2 years after an election, were recently deleted. that couldn't be done by accident.
4) the chain of custody, which means the trail of people whose hands the physical ballots passed through from the voter's to the bag or case that they are ultimately stored in after the election, has been compromised. some of the cases have had their seals torn open, some are missing up to 20% of the ballots that are supposed to be in them. some cases that were marked with having 200 certified ballots only had 165 in them, for example.

Again, I expect nothing other than aggressive accusations of insanity and/or white supremacy from anybody who might respond to this. that is okay. i'm just pointing out some facts of what is happening. they have deleted databases, claimed that they couldn't access certain data in the machines, and policy wasn't followed in relation to the filing of the ballots. these are just facts.

Now for my opinion:
If somebody has nothing to hide and is innocent of any wrongdoing, they don't go around secretly deleting stuff and being as uncooperative as possible to the investigation. If you're telling the truth, you WANT the investigation to happen because the sooner it happens, the sooner you will be proven right and the sooner the other side has to shut up with their bogus claims. That is the exact opposite of how the state election committees and secretary have been acting throughout this whole thing.

- i am aware that i didn't use proper capitalization in this post. i just didn't feel like it.
 
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Player_01

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Why is it so hard to believe Trump lost? He didn't even win the popular vote the first time.

The decentralization of our elections is why they are so safe. Which is easier to believe? That county by county in states (including GOP led ones) that there was a vast interconnected conspiracy to unseat Trump- or an unpopular president who barely won the first time then lost the second time.

I live in Michigan which was subject to conspiracy theories and that drunk lady testifying with Rudy. It all turned out to be lies, no there weren't more people voting than living. While there was a glitch in one county, there's a hand count built in to the tallying process that would have caught it. And so on.

Trump lost.
 

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A lot of twitter-educated people... (rest of clip and paste removed for space...)
In 2016... Your president announced that if he loses it's because the election was rigged. What happened?
2020... Your president announced (again...) that if he loses... It's because the election was rigged... What happened?
Look, without knowing you, you have lost friends and maybe even some family over your devotion to "The big lie". Do you want to take that to the grave with you? Trump lost. Period. Us Progressives were told to "stop being snowflakes" because 45 won. What happened? This is not healthy.
 

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I keep saying it but both left and right in your country would prefer to believe in conspiracies than deal with reality...
What conspiracy theory is the Democratic Party promoting?
 

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Isn’t Trump eligible to run in 2024 ? I’m not sure why die hard Trump supporters are still so upset about the 2020 election when that man isn’t completely out of the race. If you’re still a die hard then take your support to the ballots for 2024.
Yes he is. It will be interesting seeing the GOP who want to move on from him (and be the nominee themselves) deal with having to act like they would support Trump in 2024 when we all know he only ran to get richer and not because he ever wanted to be president.
 

tomhollandstitties

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Honestly the mail in ballots were a disaster. Ballot harvesting, people receiving multiple ballots, and taking forever to count. Florida handled it pretty well here, they had them all counted and ready to release ON election night. Unlike Pennsylvania or Nevada that stopped counting at like 5 in the afternoon. That being said, I don’t believe the election was stolen but this will definitely set the precedent for future ones in which the losing side claims it was rigged.
 
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Honestly the mail in ballots were a disaster. Ballot harvesting, people receiving multiple ballots, and taking forever to count. Florida handled it pretty well here, they had them all counted and ready to release ON election night. Unlike Pennsylvania or Nevada that stopped counting at like 5 in the afternoon. That being said, I don’t believe the election was stolen but this will definitely set the precedent for future ones in which the losing side claims it was rigged.
Everyone handled it well. It was the largest number of voters in history... During a pandemic... States allowed the courts to respond to "the allegations"... No where in our Constitution or any other Federal or State procedure does it say the votes must be tallied that night. Media spent a LOT of time preparing voters for the inevitability that counting was going to take longer this time. WE ALL NEW IT. But when a certain media outlet started asking why it was taking so long... Q took over.

My wife and will be out of the country hopefully before the 2024. While media treats the day to day of Washington like episodes of Keeping Up With The Kardashian's... There is real talk of serious civil unrest. Read about the 37th Congress leading up to the Civil War. There were fist fights and altercations in our Congress at that time. No decorum to speak of. We'd been planning to retire as expats somewhere after riding thru 2000 then 2008. Reading The Fourth Turn explains a lot about our current social economic here in the US and abroad (we're in the Fourth Turn). So living somewhere with a much lower cost of living makes sense for us.
 
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A lot of twitter-educated people have, from minute 1, accused anybody who questioned the 2020 presidential election of being at best a conspiracy theorist and at worst a white supremacist on a mission to overthrow America. I'm sure this post will be met with raging accusations of right wing terrorism and baseless claims of voter fraud, but since twitter, facebook, cnn, nbc, and the ny times certainly won't be informing anyone of this stuff, I might as well. You don't have to fire back at me, as these are simply facts of what has happened, as opposed to being my opinion on anything:

I live in maricopa county, arizona. This is the 1 place in the entire country where the state senate decided to actually do any kind of inspection on the election results, even though tens of millions of people all over the country requested it be done. There is a private outfit doing an audit of the voting machines, ballots, etc. There were over 2 million votes certified in maricopa county, so doing an audit by hand takes several weeks. it has been going on for a few weeks at this point. the state secretary, who is a very outspoken trump hater, and who has gone so far as to refer to all trump voters as neo-nazis, has done everything she could do to delay and/or interfere with the audit. mind you, nobody doing the audit has ever said that the goal is to overturn the 2020 election. their purpose has always been to find any and all types of fraud that happened in the 2020 election so that the system can be fixed if it is found to be flawed and corrupted. they just want to know what the actual votes were. the most logical thing to do would have been to immediately do an entirely transparent audit in front of everybody to finally prove that either the claims of fraud are truly baseless, or that there was a lot of fraud going on. there's a simple principal that people who are telling the truth don't fear or mind being investigated. why would they?

the state secretary and election committees have wanted nothing to do with being investigated. the state senate finally demanded an audit be done after months of people calling for it. since it has been underway, the elections committees have
1) claimed that they didn't have the passwords to access the data bases in the voting machines, which delayed the audit. they claimed that only Dominion, the company that makes the voting machines, has those passwords. to claim that they don't even have the passwords to access their own information is obviously absurd. if that were true, it would mean that a private, foreign company has more control of the voting data than the county government does.
2) hired people to line the entryways into the arena where the audit is taking place and harass the people as they drive in to the parking lot, most of whom are little old ladies who are volunteering. this actually isn't happening much anymore because they have security now, but it happened a lot at the beginning.
3) they just discovered yesterday or the day before that a bunch of the databases, which the state election committees are required by law to keep for 2 years after an election, were recently deleted. that couldn't be done by accident.
4) the chain of custody, which means the trail of people whose hands the physical ballots passed through from the voter's to the bag or case that they are ultimately stored in after the election, has been compromised. some of the cases have had their seals torn open, some are missing up to 20% of the ballots that are supposed to be in them. some cases that were marked with having 200 certified ballots only had 165 in them, for example.

Again, I expect nothing other than aggressive accusations of insanity and/or white supremacy from anybody who might respond to this. that is okay. i'm just pointing out some facts of what is happening. they have deleted databases, claimed that they couldn't access certain data in the machines, and policy wasn't followed in relation to the filing of the ballots. these are just facts.

Now for my opinion:
If somebody has nothing to hide and is innocent of any wrongdoing, they don't go around secretly deleting stuff and being as uncooperative as possible to the investigation. If you're telling the truth, you WANT the investigation to happen because the sooner it happens, the sooner you will be proven right and the sooner the other side has to shut up with their bogus claims. That is the exact opposite of how the state election committees and secretary have been acting throughout this whole thing.

- i am aware that i didn't use proper capitalization in this post. i just didn't feel like it.

Like I've said before: File a lawsuit. File sixty of them. Hell, take it all the way to the Supreme Court.

Good luck.
 

Player_01

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Honestly the mail in ballots were a disaster. Ballot harvesting, people receiving multiple ballots, and taking forever to count. Florida handled it pretty well here, they had them all counted and ready to release ON election night. Unlike Pennsylvania or Nevada that stopped counting at like 5 in the afternoon. That being said, I don’t believe the election was stolen but this will definitely set the precedent for future ones in which the losing side claims it was rigged.
Different states have different laws about when they can even begin counting mail in ballots. Here in MI, they can't begin to count them until after the polls close.
Why Michigan is waiting: State law bars early counting of absentee votes | Bridge Michigan

When states can begin processing and counting absentee/mail-in ballots, 2020 - Ballotpedia

What's interesting is Bernie Sanders predicted how Trump was going to claim victory early then say it's being stolen when the mail in ballots (which we knew would skew more Democrat) were counted:
 
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seventiesdemon

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A lot of twitter-educated people have, from minute 1, accused anybody who questioned the 2020 presidential election of being at best a conspiracy theorist and at worst a white supremacist on a mission to overthrow America. I'm sure this post will be met with raging accusations of right wing terrorism and baseless claims of voter fraud, but since twitter, facebook, cnn, nbc, and the ny times certainly won't be informing anyone of this stuff, I might as well. You don't have to fire back at me, as these are simply facts of what has happened, as opposed to being my opinion on anything:

I live in maricopa county, arizona. This is the 1 place in the entire country where the state senate decided to actually do any kind of inspection on the election results, even though tens of millions of people all over the country requested it be done. There is a private outfit doing an audit of the voting machines, ballots, etc. There were over 2 million votes certified in maricopa county, so doing an audit by hand takes several weeks. it has been going on for a few weeks at this point. the state secretary, who is a very outspoken trump hater, and who has gone so far as to refer to all trump voters as neo-nazis, has done everything she could do to delay and/or interfere with the audit. mind you, nobody doing the audit has ever said that the goal is to overturn the 2020 election. their purpose has always been to find any and all types of fraud that happened in the 2020 election so that the system can be fixed if it is found to be flawed and corrupted. they just want to know what the actual votes were. the most logical thing to do would have been to immediately do an entirely transparent audit in front of everybody to finally prove that either the claims of fraud are truly baseless, or that there was a lot of fraud going on. there's a simple principal that people who are telling the truth don't fear or mind being investigated. why would they?

the state secretary and election committees have wanted nothing to do with being investigated. the state senate finally demanded an audit be done after months of people calling for it. since it has been underway, the elections committees have
1) claimed that they didn't have the passwords to access the data bases in the voting machines, which delayed the audit. they claimed that only Dominion, the company that makes the voting machines, has those passwords. to claim that they don't even have the passwords to access their own information is obviously absurd. if that were true, it would mean that a private, foreign company has more control of the voting data than the county government does.
2) hired people to line the entryways into the arena where the audit is taking place and harass the people as they drive in to the parking lot, most of whom are little old ladies who are volunteering. this actually isn't happening much anymore because they have security now, but it happened a lot at the beginning.
3) they just discovered yesterday or the day before that a bunch of the databases, which the state election committees are required by law to keep for 2 years after an election, were recently deleted. that couldn't be done by accident.
4) the chain of custody, which means the trail of people whose hands the physical ballots passed through from the voter's to the bag or case that they are ultimately stored in after the election, has been compromised. some of the cases have had their seals torn open, some are missing up to 20% of the ballots that are supposed to be in them. some cases that were marked with having 200 certified ballots only had 165 in them, for example.

Again, I expect nothing other than aggressive accusations of insanity and/or white supremacy from anybody who might respond to this. that is okay. i'm just pointing out some facts of what is happening. they have deleted databases, claimed that they couldn't access certain data in the machines, and policy wasn't followed in relation to the filing of the ballots. these are just facts.

Now for my opinion:
If somebody has nothing to hide and is innocent of any wrongdoing, they don't go around secretly deleting stuff and being as uncooperative as possible to the investigation. If you're telling the truth, you WANT the investigation to happen because the sooner it happens, the sooner you will be proven right and the sooner the other side has to shut up with their bogus claims. That is the exact opposite of how the state election committees and secretary have been acting throughout this whole thing.

- i am aware that i didn't use proper capitalization in this post. i just didn't feel like it.

All the blah blah and hot air. When his lawyers turned up to court, no evidence. None. Zip. Watch what his lawyers do in court, not what the mouth of a lying windbag says. Why Trump's election fraud claims aren't showing up in his lawsuits challenging the results

Donald Trump Zombie Brigade is ALIVE...
 
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I never said anything about the Democratic party - simply that people on the left are also prey to conspiracy theories, just as those on the right are.

Tell me about it! Like this latest crazy left-wing conspiracy theory that people on the right are . . . get this . . . challenging the results of the 2020 election and actually trying to overturn it!

What will we come up with next?