The Big Lie

[Tight_N_Juicy]

I keep saying it but both left and right in your country would prefer to believe in conspiracies than deal with reality...

Question: how did you come to this conclusion? Do you happen to know tens of thousands of Americans and discuss their individual political beliefs and take notes? Or are you listening to the loudest, most repetitive people online/in the media who say similar nonsense?

Individual "leftists" may happen to buy into some silly conspiracy theory bullshit, but generally it's not a trait of those who lean left/democrat/progressive. You can try to convince me otherwise, but I'll bet you a dollar you fail. Because I *do* in fact live in reality. American reality. Don't rub it in.

It *is* a clear and obvious trait of a significant portion of the right/republican/conservative side of our voting population. They're proud of it. For fucks sake, Qanon is thoroughly batshit and I don't know of a single "leftist" who believes anything about it. I personally know Too Many republican voters who absolutely do believe in it. Tears in their eyes, honestly believe it. Blows my mind in the worst way.

 

[Klingsor]

For fucks sake, Qanon is thoroughly batshit and I don't know of a single "leftist" who believes anything about it.

All the Leftists For Trump . . . both of them . . . believe QAnon.

 

[Industrialsize]

IMHO, Anti-vax conspiracies seem to be the only ones to take hold with some on the left.

 

[DiamondJoe]

Tell me about it! Like this latest crazy left-wing conspiracy theory that people on the right are . . . get this . . . challenging the results of the 2020 election and actually trying to overturn it!

What will we come up with next?

I'm just a dumb observer... Why don't you tell me?

Humans tell ourselves stories about ourselves, about the world around us, to make sense of the world and provide structure. Conspiracy theories are a blunt, lazy way of hammering the world into a shape we can understand. But the same thinking that tells us, “all these other people are breaking lockdown but I’m following the rules” is why we think we’re immune to conspiracy thinking while our political opposites are the tin-foil hat brigade. We paint ourselves as aggrieved and wronged whilst the others are perpetuating the misery. We assume the worst in others while rationalising our own behaviour.

As I've said before, part of this is the death of objectivity within partisan silos, part of it is the way the internet provides confirmation bias on steroids, and a large part of it comes from a long-held millenarian streak within the American psyche. Yes, we can all laugh and point at ridiculous LGBTQanonsters but all Americans love their conspiracies - from JFK to UFOs before the internet was ever a thing - and it's all wrapped up in a First Amendment that allows people to spout all kinds of rubbish. Your country is living in a golden age for conspiracy theories.

But while the majority of such nonsense is seen as a right wing preserve, Covid conspiracies and anti-vaxxers know no partisan boundaries. It is worth pointing out that when it comes to 9/11 "inside job" conspiracies, that Democratic supporters form the majority of believers. There are others...

In the time that I've been here:

• That Putin created Trump or that Trump was working with Putin
• Trump was dismantling the postal system to prevent people from voting
• All people who vote for Trump are racists
• That business at the Capitol in Jan was an attempted coup and/or that Trump would try to prevent a peaceful transfer of power

 

[Klingsor]

That business at the Capitol in Jan was an attempted coup and/or that Trump would try to prevent a peaceful transfer of power.

This is obviously just a hysterical leftist conspiracy theory. Otherwise Trump would have been impeached for it.

 

[Industrialsize]

I'm just a dumb observer... Why don't you tell me?

Humans tell ourselves stories about ourselves, about the world around us, to make sense of the world and provide structure. Conspiracy theories are a blunt, lazy way of hammering the world into a shape we can understand. But the same thinking that tells us, “all these other people are breaking lockdown but I’m following the rules” is why we think we’re immune to conspiracy thinking while our political opposites are the tin-foil hat brigade. We paint ourselves as aggrieved and wronged whilst the others are perpetuating the misery. We assume the worst in others while rationalising our own behaviour.

As I've said before, part of this is the death of objectivity within partisan silos, part of it is the way the internet provides confirmation bias on steroids, and a large part of it comes from a long-held millenarian streak within the American psyche. Yes, we can all laugh and point at ridiculous LGBTQanonsters but all Americans love their conspiracies - from JFK to UFOs before the internet was ever a thing - and it's all wrapped up in a First Amendment that allows people to spout all kinds of rubbish. Your country is living in a golden age for conspiracy theories.

But while the majority of such nonsense is seen as a right wing preserve, Covid conspiracies and anti-vaxxers know no partisan boundaries. It is worth pointing out that when it comes to 9/11 "inside job" conspiracies, that Democratic supporters form the majority of believers. There are others...

In the time that I've been here:

• That Putin created Trump or that Trump was working with Putin
• Trump was dismantling the postal system to prevent people from voting
• All people who vote for Trump are racists
• That business at the Capitol in Jan was an attempted coup and/or that Trump would try to prevent a peaceful transfer of power

From your perch in Glastonbury, You've managed to miss the pulse of life in America. "Millenarian streak" That's funny, trying to sound like you're the smartest in class?

 

[chicagosam]

Besides accessing ballots, they’re also assessing information on how to hack the machines before trying the same in other swing states.

GOP election integrity. Free and fair elections.

Arizona Official Says Voting Machines Are Now Unusable Because Of Recount Firm's Control | HuffPost​

 

[DiamondJoe]

From your perch in Glastonbury, You've managed to miss the pulse of life in America. "Millenarian streak" That's funny, trying to sound like you're the smartest in class?

Oh, g'won with your ad hominems! Keep it up and I'll offer you a biscuit with your blanket.

From my perch in Glastonbury I see a veritable smorgasbord of lunatic and fringe beliefs, religious sects, goddess worshippers, druids, Covid deniers, hippies and New Age nonsense. It taught me from an early age to be skeptical.

I have travelled to the US, extensively over a period of 15 years. I have spoken to a wide range of people. I have many American friends.

But, besides all that, there's nothing that you've actually challenged in what I wrote.

And yes, millenarian streak a hundred miles wide runs through the American psyche. Who were the original settlers off the Mayflower but dissenting religious fundamentalists fleeing the "corruption" of the Old World for a promised land in the New World, the "shining citie on the hill"? Follow it through events like the Great Disappointment, the Birth of Seventh Day Adventists, JWs or Mormons, all with explicit millenarian expectations. You can see this today in Christian identity groups, the Waco siege, or even in the Nation of Islam.

I don't think that's particularly controversial?

 

[DiamondJoe]

This is obviously just a hysterical leftist conspiracy theory. Otherwise Trump would have been impeached for it.

He's been impeached twice for overtly political reasons and the Democrats fudged it twice. Shame, really. But. Impeaching Trump over the Capitol riots was a waste of time but was aimed at barring Trump from running in 2024. Or did I miss something?

Describing the Capitol riots as an attempted coup is a falsehood.

 

[Klingsor]

He's been impeached twice for overtly political reasons and the Democrats fudged it twice. Shame, really. But. Impeaching Trump over the Capitol riots was a waste of time but was aimed at barring Trump from running in 2024. Or did I miss something?

If by "overtly political reasons" you mean gross malfeasance while holding the office of the president, then yeah. As for "fudging it," I'd say history will point more fingers at the Republican Senate than the Democratic House. And finally, since the options were impeaching Trump or doing nothing, put me down in favor of a "waste a of time."

 

[DiamondJoe]

If by "overtly political reasons" you mean gross malfeasance while holding the office of the president, then yeah. As for "fudging it," I'd say history will point more fingers at the Republican Senate than the Democratic House. And finally, since the options were impeaching Trump or doing nothing, put me down in favor of a "waste a of time."

Impeachment is fast becomming a right of passage for presidents. But. Yes, I agree. Trump was leaking gross malfeasance all day every day. I also had a lot of sympathy for Nancy Pelosi with the first impeachment, "Hold your fire, lads! Don't shoot until you see the whites of his eyes! Steady! Wait... wait... WAIT! Oh. You missed."



But dressing the whole January thing up as an attempted coup... is not true.



* And the second impeachment was a waste of time because it was never gonna succeed.

 

[Klingsor]

Impeachment is fast becoming a right of passage for presidents. But. Yes, I agree. Trump was leaking gross malfeasance all day every day. I also had a lot of sympathy for Nancy Pelosi with the first impeachment, "Hold your fire, lads! Don't shoot until you see the whites of his eyes! Steady! Wait... wait... WAIT! Oh. You missed."

There's one good way to avoid this "right of passage."

But dressing the whole January thing up as an attempted coup... is not true.

We've already beaten this to death. Whatever else you want to call it, it was a clearly, by definition, an act of sedition.

And the second impeachment was a waste of time because it was never gonna succeed.

Sometimes you have to do the right thing, whatever the chance of success.

 

[ConanTheBarber]

Sometimes you have to do the right thing, whatever the chance of success.

Is this why you speak reason on this forum?

 

[Tight_N_Juicy]

@Klingsor ...

Just wanted to throw you some

 

[Klingsor]

Is this why you speak reason on this forum?

@Klingsor ...

Just wanted to throw you some

Aw, thanks!

Actually, I can understand DiamondJoe seeing the impeachment proceedings as both politically motivated and pointless. I mean, yes, obviously, Democrats *were* (and are) Trump's political opponents and would take advantage of every opportunity to fight him. But as it happened, Trump gave so many, and such egregious opportunities, even a wholly neutral observer would have to say, "Holy shit, this guy has gotta go!" Similarly, his malfeasance was so constant and blatant, what choice was there but to seek his removal from office, even if there was no hope of a Republican Senate following through?

So criticize the Democrats all you want. But in the end, Nancy Pelosi was right: Trump impeached himself.

 

[ConanTheBarber]

Actually, I can understand DiamondJoe seeing the impeachment proceedings as both politically motivated and pointless.

Certainly, politically motivated, but pointless only if one assumes they had to succeed to have any point. There were a thousand other reasons to proceed. Filling out history's public record was perhaps first among them.

Both impeachments were justified.

In the first one, Trump became the first president to have a Senator of his own party vote in favor of conviction.

In the second, seven Republican senators joined in the vote for conviction.

As usual, Trump was bigly ahead of all his current and historical competitors — with the largest bipartisan vote in favor of conviction in American history, and standing gloriously alone, in history's spotlight, as not only the only president to be impeached twice, but the only federal official so honored.

None like 'im, I say.

So criticize the Democrats all you want. But in the end, Nancy Pelosi was right: Trump impeached himself.

He certainly did.

 

[chicagosam]

Scott Walker. Idiot.

Ron Johnson. Bigger idiot.

Robin Vos and the GOP controlled legislature. State embarrassments and idiots.

Wisconsin—once a progressive state—now regresses to “stupid, stupider, and stupiderer”.

Despite little evidence of fraud, Wisconsin Republican leader hires retired police to probe 2020 election
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/05/27/wisconsin-robin-vos-election-fraud/?outputType=amp​

A top Republican lawmaker in Wisconsin announced Wednesday that he is hiring retired police officers and an attorney to investigate the November election, joining GOP leaders in several states who have continued to probe election results months after President Biden took office under the cloud of unfounded claims of voter fraud.

Further GOP bullsh*t whining:

“A sizable chunk of people believe the election was illegitimate,” Vos told the Journal Sentinel. “And democracy cannot flourish if both sides don’t believe in the end both sides had a fair shot.”

Yet, one side is insanely delusional under the control of a sociopathic idiot having a tantrum because he can no longer be protected under the scam of presidential immunity. It’s time for this criminal to be removed and forgotten.

It’s also time to face reality, clean the bowl of the ridiculous chunks of excrement floating to the top, and get back to the once almost respectable party the GOP once was.

Grow up. Move past the Big Lie, and dump the addle-brained “disgraceful” Mar-a-lago oaf living in the stench of his own fart cloud, and have him locked up.

 

[ConanTheBarber]

... the addle-brained “disgraceful” Mar-a-lago oaf living in the stench of his own fart cloud....

... but infused only with the beeeeest perfumes.

 

[chicagosam]

... but infused only with the beeeeest perfumes.

Even an industrial strength disinfectant could not obliterate the odoriferous thunderhead that the old windbag wallows in, sucks in, and exists on. A new brand? Trump Perfume? Delivered in a cheap barrel?

 

[Industrialsize]

Motion to invoke cloture on Jan. 6 commission fails by 54-35 vote.