Transgender people vs trans activists

[Duncan619]

I honestly feel the trans activists are taking it a bit too far nowadays. I'm curious about something. What are some views that has a general consensus among almost all trans people?

Like for instanse:

1: are cis gay men and cis lesbians who refuse to date transgender people transphobic and "genital fetishists"? A prominent spokesperson for stonewall called those people "sexual racists" in 2019. I have a hard time believing every trans person agrees with this, even though I'm sure rejection can be hurtful.

2: is J.K Rowling transphobic?

3: should a transgender person's sexual orientation be defined from the viewpoint of the gender they identify with or the sex they were born with? Like, is a trans man who are attracted to men a homosexual, or straight? For as long as I can remember, I've been told that being gay is something you are born as. Isn't it then a contradiction to that fact for a transgender person to define it from the gender they have transitioned to, considering that this is done later in life ?

4: should transgender athletes be competing with cis gender athletes? Why or why not?

5: is it transphobic for someone to say "I respect your pronouns and will happily use them, but I don't view you as the exact same as cis people who uses that same pronoun". Like someone who does it out of courtesy, but not conviction?

 

[Aphradight]

I think people do go too far with quite a bit. And just because I don’t want to sleep with someone doesn’t mean I hate them or vice versa. No one is obligated to sleep with someone just because they tell you, you have to “or else.” Just be chill. We all have our sensitive spots due to bad stuff that has happened in the past. We can grow stronger, forgive, be kind, and try to understand folks, or….. we can not understand people, make demands and be hyper aggressive while expecting others to do the latter.

 

[Sage87]

I honestly feel the trans activists are taking it a bit too far nowadays. I'm curious about something. What are some views that has a general consensus among almost all trans people?

Like for instanse:

1: are cis gay men and cis lesbians who refuse to date transgender people transphobic and "genital fetishists"? A prominent spokesperson for stonewall called those people "sexual racists" in 2019. I have a hard time believing every trans person agrees with this, even though I'm sure rejection can be hurtful.

2: is J.K Rowling transphobic?

3: should a transgender person's sexual orientation be defined from the viewpoint of the gender they identify with or the sex they were born with? Like, is a trans man who are attracted to men a homosexual, or straight? For as long as I can remember, I've been told that being gay is something you are born as. Isn't it then a contradiction to that fact for a transgender person to define it from the gender they have transitioned to, considering that this is done later in life ?

4: should transgender athletes be competing with cis gender athletes? Why or why not?

5: is it transphobic for someone to say "I respect your pronouns and will happily use them, but I don't view you as the exact same as cis people who uses that same pronoun". Like someone who does it out of courtesy, but not conviction?

I'd like to give my 2 scents on these, as I do believe trans activists are taking it waaaay too far, and in the process of doing so, they're actually ruining the rep of the entire lgbtqia community and ruining women and men at large too, which inevitably hurts themselves in the process.

1. I dont believe that cis people (Of any sexuality really), are transphobic or genital fetishists simply cause they dont want to date a transgender person. I always say, It comes down to sexual preference or sexual attraction. I, for example, am a Gay male (Born male, identify as male), I have no sexual interest whatsoever, in female genitalia, and as such, I will not date any person who has female genitalia, simply because I do not get turned on by it. It's simple biology, and to go as far as to call me a transphobe for that, seems very extreme.

2. In my honest opinion, No, she is not. She is entitled to her beliefs and opinions just like any person and I do not see her views as transphobic.

3. This one, I do not know how to answer. It is a tricky one for sure, as I have heard the "homosexual is something you're born as" Which would make sense, since animals engage in homosexuality as well, but not on the same level as we humans do. And here comes the controversial part: Transexuality/Transgender does not exist in nature. Being Homosexual means that you are sexually attracted to the gender that you are, Which used to be the biological sex you were born as.

4. I am of the opinion that biological men should compete with other biological men, and biological women should compete with biological women. So Transmen belong with women and transwomen belong with men. Now that poses a whole other issue, but this should be able to be solved with a gender category for both, so one category for men, one for women, one for transmen, and one for transwomen.

5. No, I dont believe it's transphobic, I dont even believe it's transphobic to refuse to use their pronouns. The annoying thing about them demanding that you use their chosen pronouns, is that most (if not all of them) often do so without any understanding of how conversations work, and what I mean by that is, more often than not, when someone is referring to you by pronouns, then you aren't in the conversation and that usually means you dont have any influence on the conversation. Also, one cannot control what other people say and think, and should stop trying to do so.

And on a final note, I'd like to add, that I am totally against the use/implementation of "Cisgender", as I find it obnoxious that somehow, a worldwide label has been put on all men and women who identify as their birth gender. And I am extremely annoyed when trans activists refer to me as a cis male, which is NOT how I identify, but they demand that I respect them and refer to them as whatever they identify as....
Make it make sense?

 

[Lucifer901]

There seems to be an issue with transgendered people, actually a lot of minorities. And its coming from the same people who advocate for them. I've seen it more with racial issues than trans or gay issues but that doesn't make it less important.

Its hearing people, who aren't part of that particular minority group, having the nerve to tell people who are part of that particular minority group what they should and shouldn't be offended by. Thats not anything they can argue or defend, even though they certainly try with spectacular failure. I mean, the minority group puts them in their place pretty damn fast, which is always kinda comical. Thats why when you aren't sure of something, ask questions. Because any minority group is probably not gonna take it well and rightfully so. Anyone can screw up and make a mistake but this is a pretty bold mistake. Its presumptuous. Honestly, sounds like a few minority groups have a nasty case of the Karen's.lol

Its not something that should be happening and definitely not something that should happen repeatedly. With anyone. But also take some wise advice and use your head when doing so...NOT EVERYONE IS YOUR FRIEND and NOT EVERYONE HAS YOUR BEST INTERESTS AT HEART. Thats not pessimistic. Thats not optimistic. Thats simply realistic. So be cautious with whom you keep company. Its hard to know who that can be but if you need an example of one, its the kind of person who will read posts like mine and take offense to it even though there is nothing offensive about it. Its just telling the truth.

Anyway, whoever needs to hear it, you're loved. You matter. You're doing a great job.

 

[cherryboom66]

Hiya! Firstly, when discussing “trans activists”, who and what are we actually discussing? The term is thrown around so much and it’s generally just dog whistles.

ok.

1. All depends on the context and the meaning behind words. For example, the word “preference” is thrown around a lot, and is always used incorrectly. A preference is a greater liking, not an absolute. My preference is coffee, if there’s no coffee? Fine, I’ll have a tea. People tend to hide behind the word preference now to mask their racism, xenophobia, transphobia, cultural and societal fears, body shaming. And this needs to stop.

As a trans woman, it does really suck to match with someone on a dating app, to be told how beautiful I am, how great I am to talk to… then 20 mins later when they actually read my bloody profile and see TRANS, I’m blocked. Does it hurt? Of course. In one way I can relate, if a man tells me he shaves his willy and balls, I won’t be dating them and I’ll lose all interest and respect. Point being, people actually need to understand what their absolutes are, be able to discuss them, and if they are wildly problematic, be able to see why this is and work on it.

2. yes. Yes yes.

3. I didn’t become trans, I didn’t choose to be trans. I’ve always been trans. Look at it that way

4. Of course.

5. I honestly couldn’t care about what a rando thinks deep down, just be respectful on the surface and don’t call me a he.

 

[Duncan619]

Trans activists don't speak for all trans people.
In fact the very vocal trans activists are the reason why sane trans people go stealth ( hide in public ).

I have never had a desire to shout my pronouns at anyone because I have always been under the impression that if you put in the effort to look like a woman, people will recognise that you are a woman.

Weirdos like Dylan Mulvaney, the "it's ma'am" person from that gamestop video and people like Danielle Muscato and Jessica Yaniv are the reason the general population thinks all trans people are loonies. While there are tons of normal trans people hiding in public.
We have completed our transitions, changed our documentation and just lurk from a distance without telling too many people about our past.

Those people who feel the need to put their pronouns in their signature always make me cringe. Unless you have a very androgynous name.
If your name is Sarah you don't need to put "she/her/hers" in your signature.

If you look like a woman, people will call you by female pronouns.
If you look like a guy in a dress and are polite enough not to force people to call you something, most people will probably be decent and call you a she.
If you go around yelling and shouting that you are 100% a lady when you look like Rachel Levine, for example, it only will cause outrage.

Of course Lia Thomas had a competitive advantage. One doesn't need to be a biologist to see that. She caused what she brought upon herself by taking a cisgender woman's place while having transitioned after a decade of competitive sports participation with very high testosterone levels. Of course nobody is going to condone that.
Just like you shouldn't force every middle school or kindergarten to have drag queens read stories to children.
Behave like a normal person, pay your taxes and don't shove your blue-dyed hair and neo-pronouns like zhe and hir in people's face and you'll be fine.

I have the impression a lot of the trouble makers are trans-lesbians who demand cis lesbians are attracted to their penis. Think about Veronica Ivy / Rachel McKinnon for example or Zinnia Jones.
These people voice death treats towards cis women for daring to speak about issues that only cis women face ( like menstruation for example).
And then they are surprised that the intolerance towards trans people grows.

The ones of us who live a normal and decent life are victims of the politics brought on by a few loonies who want irrealistic progress in society.

That sums up my impression of the situation. You have my sympathy.

 

[Electric blue]

My Gurl friend was a transgender person more intersexed, more female than male .
We both dident subscribe to any of this , we lived out lives as man and woman , simple as that
She Would tell me that these activists did more harm than good by yelling and screaming about hurting the very people there supposed to help. I support the transgender people but I don't wave any flags

 

[Electric blue]

Correctly put ,, than you