Western Europe vs USA Gay Life

[lostinspace94]

I lived in London. Gay life was a struggle there because culturally people are very conservative and dating was basically non-exitent. Hookups were fairly easy to come by especially pre-Brexit but I left the country so I don't know how it is now.

< post covid>

I lived SF. Gay life was a struggle there because the pool was dramatically smaller (also much older men or coupled mostly) and tbh I didn't vibe with the city at all. I also felt it was very surface level.

I did spend time in LA. Things seemed too distributed and based on looks (which was fine for initial interactions but not much else) and very IG / social status focused vs deeper authentic connection driven.

I lived NYC. Gay life was better there but the pool was incredibly shallow/flakey/cliquey/transactional and everything was so fast paced nothing ever 'connected' to a deeper level. Years went by and there was barely any progress, it felt like I was a hamster in a wheel. I also find people very cold in general.

I've lived in a couple of other US states and generally find the gay men problematic (especially mentally). The sex has been unpassionate / very transactional, and relationship building skills are poor at best here.

I don't have any issues being single, but I am fed up of hooking up with complete strangers all the time, and want to get further with guys and have something deeper, even if it doesn't mean a partner. So I am debating where to go.

I'm leaning towards Spain (Barcelona specifically). But I'm wondering if its a myth things are better there, or if I will just run into the same issues, and be poorer lol. The trade off would be wealth, so I'm wondering if I stay in the US and just accept this culture and be rich, or move, and have a shot at more. But I want to be reasonably sure there is a shot at more before I move, as the States has been disappointing so far.

 

[Cumbob]

I think it depends on where you’re looking. For example if you’re on Grinder they’re gonna expect sex, if it’s Tinder than 80/20 percent of the time they’re looking for sex, you’ll just have to ask them first and make it clear that you aren’t just looking for a hookup. OkCupid is more of a balance but there’s a lot of people that will call friends with benefits the same as a relationship (I had to learn that). If you go out to bars, most of the time it’s just people looking to hookup too. Unfortunately US has a very strong Christian culture even though we are becoming more secular so a lot of guys are still in the closet, or still plan on marrying a woman/bisexual (largest group of all) so you end up with more hookups and transactional sex instead of relationships. Maybe try finding a gay man’s group like in some cities there are gay sports groups like bowling or soccer, gay gym classes etc that’s usually how people meet other out gay guys, drag shows, etc.

Also Philadelphia has a pretty large lgbt culture if you haven’t been there before might be worth a try, I grew up there.

 

[lostinspace94]

I think it depends on where you’re looking. For example if you’re on Grinder they’re gonna expect sex, if it’s Tinder than 80/20 percent of the time they’re looking for sex, you’ll just have to ask them first and make it clear that you aren’t just looking for a hookup. OkCupid is more of a balance but there’s a lot of people that will call friends with benefits the same as a relationship (I had to learn that). If you go out to bars, most of the time it’s just people looking to hookup too. Unfortunately US has a very strong Christian culture even though we are becoming more secular so a lot of guys are still in the closet, or still plan on marrying a woman/bisexual (largest group of all) so you end up with more hookups and transactional sex instead of relationships. Maybe try finding a gay man’s group like in some cities there are gay sports groups like bowling or soccer, gay gym classes etc that’s usually how people meet other out gay guys, drag shows, etc.

Also Philadelphia has a pretty large lgbt culture if you haven’t been there before might be worth a try, I grew up there.

The issue with 'groups' is a lot of the guys there are 1) taken 2) much older or younger so for dating its hard 3) not looking (out of a relationship, simply happy single etc) 4) inconsistent (visiting, moving areas, etc). So its still a needle in a haystack to find even a consistent friend via that method. As you wrote, apps and bars and parties etc all lead to hookups and nothing more, which is okay for short term, but doesn't help long term. Thats why I thought maybe I just need to leave the 'west' entirely.

 

[halcyondays]

I don't have any issues being single, but I am fed up of hooking up with complete strangers all the time, and want to get further with guys and have something deeper, even if it doesn't mean a partner.

Sounds like you want a partner with whom you have something deeper. Am I wrong?

 

[lostinspace94]

Sounds like you want a partner with whom you have something deeper. Am I wrong?

Yes, but its next to impossible to find here.

 

[Boaxy]

I just want to say OP that your review/assessment on LA is very incorrect. I'm not gonna say LA is perfect for LGBTQ topics, but I feel it's very difficult to explain everything. A lot of stuff in LA is hidden, and the stuff that is public, is kinda shit. The bars (Faultine, Abbey, Akbar, Eagle etc.) are kinda shit. Online personals (Grindr, Adam4Adam, Squirt, Recon etc.) are kinda shady. The events, if you're someone more closed minded, might not be for you (For example, I attended a LGBTQ group, and we did everything from playing Mario Party, playing Magic the gathering, there was also a book club, and it included non binary/gender non conforming/trans people, and we also participated in a cross stitching/crafts meetings. So yeah). You can look for the more influencer/image based groups if you want, but LA LGBTQ culture is more than that.

 

[lostinspace94]

I just want to say OP that your review/assessment on LA is very incorrect. I'm not gonna say LA is perfect for LGBTQ topics, but I feel it's very difficult to explain everything. A lot of stuff in LA is hidden, and the stuff that is public, is kinda shit. The bars (Faultine, Abbey, Akbar, Eagle etc.) are kinda shit. Online personals (Grindr, Adam4Adam, Squirt, Recon etc.) are kinda shady. The events, if you're someone more closed minded, might not be for you (For example, I attended a LGBTQ group, and we did everything from playing Mario Party, playing Magic the gathering, there was also a book club, and it included non binary/gender non conforming/trans people, and we also participated in a cross stitching/crafts meetings. So yeah). You can look for the more influencer/image based groups if you want, but LA LGBTQ culture is more than that.

Interesting. Would you recommend LA in this case?

 

[michael_3165]

I say this as someone who was gay for years. We come w baggage. Psychological issues are rife, often as we are shamed for being gay from birth. So we have shame, attachment issues, self loathing, poor sense of self, and a pathological obsession w youth and looks.

That isn't changing any time soon and it seems universal across cultures. Individual lads will of course vary, but the communities as a whole seem to be fairly similar.

It's why many are lonely, old and unhappy.

 

[lostinspace94]

I say this as someone who was gay for years. We come w baggage. Psychological issues are rife, often as we are shamed for being gay from birth. So we have shame, attachment issues, self loathing, poor sense of self, and a pathological obsession w youth and looks.

That isn't changing any time soon and it seems universal across cultures. Individual lads will of course vary, but the communities as a whole seem to be fairly similar.

It's why many are lonely, old and unhappy.

This mirrors my experience of what is 'out there' so when I have a stable attachment and go into therapy, the conversation is dead, given its 'not me'. But this makes it even harder because I've done what I can for myself and somehow it is actually isolates me more.

You mentioned 'was gay', did you convert or something?

 

[michael_3165]

This mirrors my experience of what is 'out there' so when I have a stable attachment and go into therapy, the conversation is dead, given its 'not me'. But this makes it even harder because I've done what I can for myself and somehow it is actually isolates me more.

You mentioned 'was gay', did you convert or something?

Convert sounds like religion haha

I was gay for years then got w a woman randomly..15 years together now.

 

[theplayerking]

I lived in London. Gay life was a struggle there because culturally people are very conservative and dating was basically non-exitent. Hookups were fairly easy to come by especially pre-Brexit but I left the country so I don't know how it is now.

< post covid>

I lived SF. Gay life was a struggle there because the pool was dramatically smaller (also much older men or coupled mostly) and tbh I didn't vibe with the city at all. I also felt it was very surface level.

I did spend time in LA. Things seemed too distributed and based on looks (which was fine for initial interactions but not much else) and very IG / social status focused vs deeper authentic connection driven.

I lived NYC. Gay life was better there but the pool was incredibly shallow/flakey/cliquey/transactional and everything was so fast paced nothing ever 'connected' to a deeper level. Years went by and there was barely any progress, it felt like I was a hamster in a wheel. I also find people very cold in general.

I've lived in a couple of other US states and generally find the gay men problematic (especially mentally). The sex has been unpassionate / very transactional, and relationship building skills are poor at best here.

I don't have any issues being single, but I am fed up of hooking up with complete strangers all the time, and want to get further with guys and have something deeper, even if it doesn't mean a partner. So I am debating where to go.

I'm leaning towards Spain (Barcelona specifically). But I'm wondering if it’s a myth things are better there, or if I will just run into the same issues, and be poorer lol. The trade off would be wealth, so I'm wondering if I stay in the US and just accept this culture and be rich, or move, and have a shot at more. But I want to be reasonably sure there is a shot at more before I move, as the States has been disappointing so far.

You’ve lived in four of the largest and most prominent gay Meccas in the world. I agree that it’s difficult for gay men to find relationships, but you might want to look inward or reevaluate how you have been approaching your quest. Of course every city has its dominant vibe and ethos, but these cities have very diverse populations with many different communities. I don’t mean to be harsh, but searching for yet another city is unlikely to be the solution.

 

[lostinspace94]

You’ve lived in four of the largest and most prominent gay Meccas in the world. I agree that it’s difficult for gay men to find relationships, but you might want to look inward or reevaluate how you have been approaching your quest. Of course every city has its dominant vibe and ethos, but these cities have very diverse populations with many different communities. I don’t mean to be harsh, but searching for yet another city is unlikely to be the solution.

Do you have any advice? I have tried a bunch of stuff and am really out of ideas.

 

[i-feel-fantastic]

I used to go to gay bars/clubs and events with the anticipation of meeting people that I might want to date. It made me very sad and lonely when that didn’t happen. What happened was that over time my mindset changed. I stopped going to those places to find dates and instead went to hang out with my friends and just have a good time. It’s made the search for a partner a lot more bearable.

 

[chiguyjay]

It’s not you, it’s the gay community Social media made things worse. It just amplified our hookup culture and emotional detachment mindset - probably from any trauma we had early on as some have said here.

 

[dtarlock]

Obviously, none of us know what the original poster has tried. But perhaps he's looking for sex in all the right places and looking for love in all the wrong places?

I know many, many happy, stable gay couples in San Francisco, New York, and London. Most of them did not meet through sex hookups. I'm not being sex-negative -- just saying that if you're looking long-term, there may be other places to look. They've meet through work, through clubs, through volunteer activities. The Gay Games are coming up in 2026...Find a gay athletic club for some sport you like and join up -- That' has been the most prevalent way gays I know have found each other and lived happily after. But certainly any group activity that interests you should yield likeminded guys, some of whom you will be attracted to and will be attracted to you.

 

[chrisrobin]

As the USA looks like being less tolerant for the next four years anywhere would be preferable

 

[RugbyGuy42]

London conservative and dating non existent is not a description of the city I recognise.

 

[lostinspace94]

London conservative and dating non existent is not a description of the city I recognise.

It was my experience as a person of color, and I lived there before the whole black lives matter etc movement happened so maybe things have changed. It certainly wasn't friendly when I first came out towards people of color, even just for hookups.

 

[lostinspace94]

Obviously, none of us know what the original poster has tried. But perhaps he's looking for sex in all the right places and looking for love in all the wrong places?

I know many, many happy, stable gay couples in San Francisco, New York, and London. Most of them did not meet through sex hookups. I'm not being sex-negative -- just saying that if you're looking long-term, there may be other places to look. They've meet through work, through clubs, through volunteer activities. The Gay Games are coming up in 2026...Find a gay athletic club for some sport you like and join up -- That' has been the most prevalent way gays I know have found each other and lived happily after. But certainly any group activity that interests you should yield likeminded guys, some of whom you will be attracted to and will be attracted to you.

The issue with the places you mention is it is often still a bit hit and miss. I have gone to many over the years, and made some friends, but these are not men I am attracted to (or vice versa, and trust me, I am not being picky), emotionally available men for more than friendship (often they are paired up hence have the time to do these other things) or often are 'trying it out' until something comes along (e.g. change of work, find a partner etc) so the people remaining are not always constant. Not saying its not possible, but it is difficult still.

 

[lostinspace94]

I used to go to gay bars/clubs and events with the anticipation of meeting people that I might want to date. It made me very sad and lonely when that didn’t happen. What happened was that over time my mindset changed. I stopped going to those places to find dates and instead went to hang out with my friends and just have a good time. It’s made the search for a partner a lot more bearable.

I don't go to these places looking for a partner or even people I want to date. I go there to have a good time and see my friends and spend time with them. Anything else is just a cherry on top, except its a limited cherry, lasting a maximum of 24 hours lol.