Chick flicks vs. guy flicks

[Sagittarius84]

Edited to add: I find it distasteful to think that the level of interest in a female character has solely to do with her physical appeal and compliance with what makes male penis/ego happy.

And yet every woman on Themiscyra in a Patty Jenkins helmed Wonder Woman movie looked like either a Victoria's Secret or Crossfit model...i don't think the distasteful idea is necessarily physical appeal to the male gaze, just the willingness for women to co opt it when it suits their desires for gain, as opposed to subverting it when given the oppprtunity.

 

[TexanStar]

And yet every woman on Themiscyra in a Patty Jenkins helmed Wonder Woman movie looked like either a Victoria's Secret or Crossfit model...i don't think the distasteful idea is necessarily physical appeal to the male gaze, just the willingness for women to co opt it when it suits their desires for gain, as opposed to subverting it when given the oppprtunity.

Well... two things here.

One is that the amazons in Wonder woman were warrior women. A level of fitness is required to portray the role and I think some degree of attractiveness is coming along with that fitness. People who are in good physical shape often lean towards being appealing to the eye.

The other is that Hollywood makeup continues to be hollywood makeup. There are people you run into every day at the grocery store and such who don't garner a second look that if they got madeup by a professional Hollywood makeup artist would look like a magazine cover. Pull up pretty much any pic of female soldiers and imagine if they got the hollywood makeup treatment what they would look like.

TLDR: I think you're possibly projecting some of your own bias when you say the warrior women in wonder woman were cast for their physical attractiveness.

 

[Sagittarius84]

One is that the amazons in Wonder woman were warrior women. A level of fitness is required to portray the role and I think some degree of attractiveness is coming along with that fitness. People who are in good physical shape often lean towards being appealing to the eye.

Trust me Ive treaded upon that fragile ground of equating physical fitness to physical attractiveness..if "larger" women aren't supposed to have their health speculated upon by the male gaze, then it cant be used as an excuse to explain away a lack of body diversity.
And even Sparta had non warriors amongst them.. Where are the old and learned whom are valued for their knowledge as opposed to their physical ability how does one reconcile "warrior women" automatically meaning no old or fat chicks will be present without considering age or physical stature as liabilities to strength

The other is that Hollywood makeup continues to be hollywood makeup. There are people you run into every day at the grocery store and such who don't garner a second look that if they got madeup by a professional Hollywood makeup artist would look like a magazine cover. Pull up pretty much any pic of female soldiers and imagine if they got the hollywood makeup treatment what they would look like.

I don't question this at all..everyone wants to look their best but even this wasn't followed through upon. The one "average" or "plus" sized woman of noteriety in the film had impeccable makeup, most of the warriors were rocking a benign "natural look"

TLDR: I think you're possibly projecting some of your own bias when you say the warrior women in wonder woman were cast for their physical attractiveness.

I don't totally preclude this from being true, but I challenge anybody to rewatch that movie and look at the totality of women of Themiscyra and compare that against a male dominated "warrior" culture and tell me whose body and age makeup is more diverse.

 

[TexanStar]

Trust me Ive treaded upon that fragile ground of equating physical fitness to physical attractiveness..if "larger" women aren't supposed to have their health speculated upon by the male gaze, then it cant be used as an excuse to explain away a lack of body diversity.
And even Sparta had non warriors amongst them.. Where are the old and learned whom are valued for their knowledge as opposed to their physical ability how does one reconcile "warrior women" automatically meaning no old or fat chicks will be present without considering age or physical stature as liabilities to strength

I don't question this at all..everyone wants to look their best but even this wasn't followed through upon. The one "average" or "plus" sized woman of noteriety in the film had impeccable makeup, most of the warriors were rocking a benign "natural look"

I don't totally preclude this from being true, but I challenge anybody to rewatch that movie and look at the totality of women of Themiscyra and compare that against a male dominated "warrior" culture and tell me whose body and age makeup is more diverse.

Is there such a thing as elderly Themiscyrans? I thought they're created by the gods and live forever or something. The same women have been on that island for eons.

 

[Sagittarius84]

Is there such a thing as elderly Themiscyrans? I thought they're created by the gods and live forever or something. The same women have been on that island for eons.

No the backstory is a bit different, and insidious really. from what I understand the only immortals on Themiscyra are Wonder Woman, Hippolyta and a few others, the rest age and are born of mortal means....specifically every 30 yrs or so the Themiscyrans of child bearing age leave the island, find ships full of men to rape and then kill, then bear their children back home. The girls are raised as Amazons, the boys are sold for hard labor(and implied sexual slavery) to the god Hephestus..lol
Sort of the dirty little secret of the supposed ideal matriarchy

 

[TexanStar]

No the backstory is a bit different, and insidious really. from what I understand the only immortals on Themiscyra are Wonder Woman, Hippolyta and a few others, the rest age and are born of mortal means....specifically every 30 yrs or so the Themiscyrans of child bearing age leave the island, find ships full of men to rape and then kill, then bear their children back home. The girls are raised as Amazons, the boys are sold for hard labor(and implied sexual slavery) to the god Hephestus..lol
Sort of the dirty little secret of the supposed ideal matriarchy

None of that is referenced in the movie you're complaining about, is it?

That's not the backstory in the original wonder woman comic either.

You're pulling from a different media source (a modern rewrite of the story in the comics) to try and back up an argument you're making about the film.

 

[Sagittarius84]

None of that is referenced in the movie you're complaining about, is it?

Lol not explicitly, Wonder Woman seemed to have a grasp on babies and motherhood, but nothing about how either of them came about..Patty Jenkins couldn't get body diversity down, I doubt she'd even try to reconcile this little knowledge nugget, not without alienating an audience deadset on making Themiscyra "Women's Wakanda"

 

[Sagittarius84]

None of that is referenced in the movie you're complaining about, is it?

That's not the backstory in the original wonder woman comic either.

You're pulling from a different media source (a modern rewrite of the story in the comics) to try and back up an argument you're making about the film.

The original Wonder Woman comic was an amalgamation of some dudes creepy lust in two dominant women..
And at best if we consider the original story of Themiscyra it exists as harem for a patriarchal pantheon, specifically Zeus and Diana is a product of his rape of Hippolyta..also not really the best message. The argument I have is that as on board as I am for Wonder Woman to be considered the ideal woman hero, it doesn't help that those supposedly looking to her and using her as a figurehead(aside from the predominantly male population of artists and writers)are unwilling to unpack the toxicity that even makes their hero possible...Captain America isnt just a hero to guys he's willing to question and fight againstthe very power structure that spawned him..even "Black Panther" made T'Challa start to question and usurp the very ideals his uncolonized and unspoiled utopia held most dear to heart. Beside being a bit naive what flaw was really explored in WW? As far as we know girl power is absolute, the island is perfect, and a sense of infallibility maintained..because of such a one sided hero, when she has the capability to be ao.much more.

 

[billybones]

I’m tired of remakes and comic book films. I know remakes are as old as moving pictures and comic book films are prevalent because mega-media conglomerates have snapped up every comic title because they’re hot material right now, but the truth is they’re just typically not very good. That’s not an opinion informed by my dick or gender ego, but by my brain.

 

[marriedasian]

i don't think it's guy vs girl here... it's just what the mass audience is wanting and feeding off of. if the statistics are showing that super-hero movies are the "thing" now then the movie studios will make more of those. at the end of the day, it's still a business and they're main goal is still to make money and keep the shareholders happy while feeding the general public's addiction.

don't get me wrong, i'm a lover of all movies alike. i don't discriminate and as long as the movie is "good for me" then that's really all that matters to me as a consumer. i would like to think that the majority of movie watchers fall into this category despite the overwhelming responses from technical movie critics... i mean, seriously, how many of us understand the mechanics of what makes a good movie? we simply what a movie and if it appeals to us, then we like it... in full transparency, we're sold on a short 1-minute trailer... go figure.

 

[flooble]

All these responses and nobody's called you out yet for 'chick flick'? Uggggggggggggggggggggggh. Dude. When women talk about misogyny, and men say "but I love women I can't be misogynist," phrases like 'chick flick' are what they're talking about. It's gross. Stop.

 

[286798]

meh. I would not classify "chick flick" as a misogynistic term. To me, it's not something that indicates hatred of women... it's a synonym for rom-com. Yes, it may promote the marginalization of women through linguistic relativity (like Miyam Bialyk's Girl vs. Woman video), and yes, the words we use matter... but I don't find it hateful. It may be sexist or dismissive, but not misogynist.

Speaking for me, phrases like "chick flick" are NOT what I'm referring to when I talk about misogyny. Examples of misogyny (to me) are:

• justifying the pay inequality of women
• victim shaming, especially in cases of rape/physical violence
• slut shaming
• "nice guys" who believe that doing "nice" things entitle them to sex from women
• the belief that feminists hate men, aka that equality doesn't mean equality
• hostility toward women who don't "cater" to men or accept their poor behavior

I'm sure there are tons more examples, but these are top of mind for me.

THAT SAID... @flooble has made me think about my acceptance of the term chick-flick and I'll stop using it. I'm complicit in sexism if I do. And that's not ok.

 

[thirteenbyseven]

Charlize Theron and Seth Rogan: Long Shot
Long Shot (2019)

Hollywood has always manufactured a sub-category of "guy flicks" which usually fail miserably at the box office-- and on merit-- yet continue to be released, year after year. Invariably scripted as comedies or romantic comedies, the protagonist in these movies is a nerdish, unphotogenic, non-athletic (probable) thirty or forty-year-old virgin juxtaposed with a woman so beautiful and unattainable that mere mortal men cannot attain an erection in her presence.

"Men don't really want to date a woman more powerful than they are. It's a dick shriveler."

Charlotte Field (Charlize Theron) is the U.S. Secretary of State in the body of a 5' 10" supermodel. Fred Flarsky (Seth Rogan) is a journalist short on looks but long on lightning wit and one liners. From the trailers we learn that in some alternate universe they knew each other growing-up when she was only gorgeous and he was getting beaned on the head shagging pop fly balls in intramural baseball.

To pair these improbable characters together as adults, the plotline revolves around candidate Charlotte Field's dire need for a speech writer. In all the land, no one is more qualified than someone from her past like Fred Flarsky who used to jerk-off all day and night dreaming of her while growing-up. Oh the madcap situational comedy about to befall we movie goers, followed by the always touching and poignant ending.

This film is rated-R for Charlize Theron's remarks about penis size and for the audience being forced to look at Seth Rogan's partially disrobed body. Opens May 3rd at a theater near you.

 

[918177]

Is there such a thing as elderly Themiscyrans? I thought they're created by the gods and live forever or something. The same women have been on that island for eons.

They were created by Zeus who was a horn dog by all accounts.
Don't see him creating a unattractive race of warrior women.

 

[286798]

and for the audience being forced to look at Seth Rogan's partially disrobed body

 

[dreamer20]

Then there is 2019 Captain Marvel starring Brie Larson..Forbes says Captain "Marvelet" is setting the world on-fire. My question is how are they achieving this and how many men want to watch a revisionist Marvel character with an attitude "Men? I don't need no stinking men!!! What say we?

The script writers of the movie radically revised MCU history in order to create an interesting, exciting film that was worth watching, but had its flaws. In their plot neither the Skrull Empire, nor the male Kree warrior Captain Marvel (1967) existed. Captain Marvel aka Carol Danvers had a different origin. Characters that have vulnerabilities and problems appeal to me in film. Unfortunately Captain Marvel, herself, was made too powerful and seemingly invulnerable - making her victorys a foregone conclusion. Therefore I wouldn't be interested in a sequel.

 

[deleted848353]

Guy Flicks vs. Chick Flicks | The Ultimate Movie Making Guidebook!

I was in a weak moment, tired and deadheading back to LAX after a long trip and attempting to kill time. It just happened that my airline had a movie on their latest IFE offerings I'd been trying my best to a avoid. Yup, fresh from the Oscars, A Star is Born. While it didn't lower my testosterone level appreciably I marvel-- excuse the pun-- how much that genre has changed recently.

Venturing into the quicksand I'll say that this latest retool of A Star is Born used a tried-and-true formula of casting a male lead that is more attractive than his female counterpart. Lady Gaga, as immensely talented as she may be, isn't the stuff most men lie awake at night jerking-off to, while Bradley Cooper with his country-western beard, aw-shucks voice lowered an octave and baby-blues probably appeals to a good percentage of women. Heretofore, movies like "Star" and Titantic with Kate Winslet and Leonardo DiCaprio also followed a conventional chick flick law of attraction which states that the female must have redeeming qualities beyond mere physical appearance which so entice a man that he's woven into her spell. And then throw-in lots of sex tears and ever-after love, even after the male lead croaks.

And then there is 2019 Captain Marvel starring Sacramento's Brianne Desaulniers as Brie Larson. Disney spent a gazillion dollars shoving this movie down our collective throats. Out in Los Angeles Disney-owned KABC sent their own George Pennacchio-- no relation to the Disney-owned cartoon character Pennochio-- to the movie's premiere in Hollywood where we learned bus loads of little girls had been shipped-in to watch their new female role model in-action (and make sure the theater was full.) The Thunderbirds flew in from Nellis AFB near Las Vegas and performed a fly-over of Hollywood Blvd. in the missing man formation to honor a member of that elite aerobatic team who had been killed in a plane crash subsequent to giving Brie Larson tips on-set how to act like a fighter pilot. Lastly Disney, perhaps using the same accounting methods that Donald Trump used when he inflated his net worth from a paltry 788 million to 5 billion according to Forbes, now says Captain "Marvelet" is setting the world on-fire.

My question is how are they achieving this? And more importantly how many men are actually paying to watch it? Back when Titantic was in theaters, groups of coffee-klatch women would party together and go see DiCaprio drown in the Atlantic several times a week: Few men would have that devotion. My guess is there are even fewer male homo sapiens who want to watch a revisionist Marvel character with an attitude "Men? I don't need no stinking men!!!

What say we?

Um isn't the actress who plays Carol danvers aka captain marvel brie larsen not as you said Brianne Desaulniers as Brie Larson

 

[kjehe3]

I don't understand the question lol. Can someone summarise/simplify it?

I wrote my post hoping you and others would write your opinions on what motivates you to go to the theater to watch a Captain Marvel with Brie Larson

I went to watch Captain Marvel in the theater because I love going to see every MCU film opening weekend, i'm a huge MCU fan lol. I also think there was more of an incentive due to the scale of infinity war and Captain Marvel being the filler/tie-in (infinity war end credit scene) between infinity war and end game. I actually really enjoyed the movie and Captain Marvel is in my top 10 for favourite MCU characters. People seem to hate on her because she has a bit of an ego and is overly confident, remind you of anyone? *Cough* Thor.

 

[dreamer20]

I wrote my post hoping you and others would write your opinions on what motivates you to go to the theater to watch a Captain Marvel with Brie Larson...Lady Gaga still doesn't make my whopper go wang!!!

As a fan of both Marvel Comics Captain Marvel (1967) and the spin off series Ms. Marvel (1977) I was interested in seeing this movie. In 1973 Jim Starlin took over the originally poorly conceived Captain Marvel series, revamped it, and turned it into a science fiction cult classic - which I enjoyed immensely. Elements from Starlin's Captain Marvel storyline were included in the movie - much to my delight. I don't hate the movie version of Captain Marvel. I've changed my mind. I would be interested in seeing who would be powerful enough to battle her in a sequel.

 

[derf3]

While I will say that I feel there is much shoehorning of characters in fictional media nowadays--which, ultimately, I think is a disservice because it comes across as disingenuous--I do think this is done (mostly) with good intentions.

That is to say: the heart is in the right place even when the scripts aren't very good. And I don't fault the actors.

Anyhow, Captain Marvel, in my opinion, was a decent movie. At this point, I've seen it twice now, and I think I appreciated it more somehow the second time while at home. Really, I only wish they played up the 90's nostalgia a bit more. That seemed like a missed opportunity to me.

Insofar as female action leads are concerned: I would point to Ellen Ripley as the gold standard to which all should be measured. Indeed, the Alien franchise has never felt forced to me at all; nor did the 1st or 2nd Terminator. James Cameron, to his credit, writes for very likeable characters, both male and female.

As an interesting aside: I recommend the 2006 Masterpiece Theatre version of Jane Eyre for consideration. This of course was based upon the novel written by Charlotte Brontë in the 19th Century--far removed from the influences of today--and happens to be a gratifying story with a strong female lead.