Circumcision

[Pye]

If this issue HAS been done to death would any of the people on this board consider circumcising their infant?

I work in a hospital and there is at least 1 adult circumcision performed each week...good for them...they got to make a chocie be it for medical, personal or religious reasons. There are still 4-5 infant circumcisions performed.

I read on another board that the tissue holding the prepuce to the glans is the same material that holds your fingernail to your finger. I don't think any of us that were cut at birth remember it but I'm sure at the time it didn't feel too great after it was done. Try pulling off your fingernail and tell me how it feels the next day.

It remains a custom at birth that should NOT be covered by insurance nor should any doctor willingly perform this procedure. Don't they take an oath "to do no harm"?

I'm cut...I don't have any great issues with it at this point in my life but I'm sure that it really affects some people. Would I have preferred to have been left intact? YES... I then could have made the decision on my own. I don't know if I'd like to deal with the continual cleaning that some have to deal with. I know that it isn't an issue for all UC peni but I KNOW that some have a continual odor no matter how often they clean. I know I wouldn't have wanted to have a big overhang I'd have preferred something that just covers the glans and I could retract and look cut if I wanted...but I don't have that choice...I wasn't given that option...overzealous drs and trend of the times and misinformation all contributed to me being cut at birth.

I didn't even KNOW I was circumcised until I was about 14 or 15 and my mother had found my hospital bill in a batch of papers and handed it to me... listed was circumcision and I immmediately wondered "WHY?" I asked my mom and she said that the dr suggested it and told her it was more healthy for the infant and lead to less infection and decreased cancer risk all MISINFORMATION that people were told and still, to this day, believe.

If this issue was 'done to death' everyone would concede that there is no reason to circumcise an infant.

 

[surferboy]

If this issue HAS been done to death would any of the people on this board consider circumcising their infant?

Because, and though I don't agree with it, it's their right. It's their child, the law says they can circumize them. End of story. People have their hearts and minds set. Either yer for circumszing, or yer not. There's no reason for these anti-circ, and anti-uncut topics.

 

[robertomuro]

Originally posted by surferboy@Oct 19 2005, 07:11 AM

If this issue HAS been done to death would any of the people on this board consider circumcising their infant?

Because, and though I don't agree with it, it's their right. It's their child, the law says they can circumize them. End of story. People have their hearts and minds set. Either yer for circumszing, or yer not. There's no reason for these anti-circ, and anti-uncut topics.

[post=353094]Quoted post[/post]​

No, the law doesn't. That's the whole point! A blind eye is just turned to it. It violates many laws locally and internationally. For example, no law has been specifically made against castration either which was something very acceptable and widely practiced as well. I have little doubt you would be found guily of assault GBH if you did it now though because of cultural changes rather than law changes.

Any circumcisers keen to castrate their boys? No? typical..

 

[DC_DEEP]

Originally posted by surferboy@Oct 19 2005, 01:11 AM
Because, and though I don't agree with it, it's their right. It's their child, the law says they can circumize them. End of story. People have their hearts and minds set. Either yer for circumszing, or yer not. There's no reason for these anti-circ, and anti-uncut topics.

[post=353094]Quoted post[/post]​

So, like, yer saying that since it's like, their child, they have a right to do amputations on the child? Is it ok even if they have their hearts and minds set on cutting off a finger instead of a chunk of his penis?

If there is no reason for these circ threads, why do you even read or reply?

 

[13788]

Jace:

Originally posted by robertomuro@Oct 19 2005, 06:30 AM

It violates many laws locally and internationally. For example, no law has been specifically made against castration either which was something very acceptable and widely practiced as well. I have little doubt you would be found guily of assault GBH if you did it now though because of cultural changes rather than law changes.

[post=353123]Quoted post[/post]​

And what laws would that be?? In the States the parents are charged with the legal responsibility of their children until those children reach the age of 18. And for the love of pete circumcision IS NOT AMPUTATION.

Let's face it, some people will continue to have their sons circumcised and some people will continue to be against it. It's always been this way and probably always will be. It's a decision that young parents have to make, right or wrong it is their decision and as intelligent adults we should respect it as such.

 

[surferboy]

Originally posted by Jace+Oct 19 2005, 03:55 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jace &#064; Oct 19 2005, 03:55 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-robertomuro@Oct 19 2005, 06:30 AM

It violates many laws locally and internationally. For example, no law has been specifically made against castration either which was something very acceptable and widely practiced as well. I have little doubt you would be found guily of assault GBH if you did it now though because of cultural changes rather than law changes.

[post=353123]Quoted post[/post]​

And what laws would that be?? In the States the parents are charged with the legal responsibility of their children until those children reach the age of 18. And for the love of pete circumcision IS NOT AMPUTATION.

Let&#39;s face it, some people will continue to have their sons circumcised and some people will continue to be against it. It&#39;s always been this way and probably always will be. It&#39;s a decision that young parents have to make, right or wrong it is their decision and as intelligent adults we should respect it as such.

[post=353218]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]


Exactly. As I&#39;ve stated, I do agree that circumsizing a child is wrong. But that&#39;s my OPINION, which I totally voice. However, I&#39;m not gona force others into following it. And as Jace said, there is no law against circumsizing a child. Matter of fact, since it&#39;s practiced in the Jewish and Islamic faiths, I believe it&#39;s protected by law (but I&#39;m not 100% on that, so don&#39;t get all bitchy if I&#39;m wrong). So what if a parent wants their son circumsized? Who are you to say it&#39;s wrong? If you have, and you don&#39;t want him to be circumsized, fine, that&#39;s yer decision as a parent. Don&#39;t comndemn others because they don&#39;t agree with yer OPINION.

 

[surferboy]

Originally posted by DC_DEEP+Oct 19 2005, 07:57 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DC_DEEP &#064; Oct 19 2005, 07:57 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-surferboy@Oct 19 2005, 01:11 AM
Because, and though I don&#39;t agree with it, it&#39;s their right. It&#39;s their child, the law says they can circumize them. End of story. People have their hearts and minds set. Either yer for circumszing, or yer not. There&#39;s no reason for these anti-circ, and anti-uncut topics.

[post=353094]Quoted post[/post]​

So, like, yer saying that since it&#39;s like, their child, they have a right to do amputations on the child? Is it ok even if they have their hearts and minds set on cutting off a finger instead of a chunk of his penis?

If there is no reason for these circ threads, why do you even read or reply?

[post=353126]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]



Yah, and real fuckin mature n yer attempt to mock how I talk, ass.

 

[robertomuro]

Originally posted by Jace+Oct 19 2005, 09:55 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jace &#064; Oct 19 2005, 09:55 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-robertomuro@Oct 19 2005, 06:30 AM

It violates many laws locally and internationally. For example, no law has been specifically made against castration either which was something very acceptable and widely practiced as well. I have little doubt you would be found guily of assault GBH if you did it now though because of cultural changes rather than law changes.

[post=353123]Quoted post[/post]​

And what laws would that be?? In the States the parents are charged with the legal responsibility of their children until those children reach the age of 18. And for the love of pete circumcision IS NOT AMPUTATION.

Let&#39;s face it, some people will continue to have their sons circumcised and some people will continue to be against it. It&#39;s always been this way and probably always will be. It&#39;s a decision that young parents have to make, right or wrong it is their decision and as intelligent adults we should respect it as such.

[post=353218]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]

Not amputation? Ok, go to a dictionary, look up the word and tell where it differs from circumcision please.

I can point to numerous, but how is any non-necessary amputation of any body part on a child not assault?? Do you see any specific law against routine castration? No&#33; It falls under the same thing.

Parents do not OWN a child&#33; It is not property&#33; They have (unless stated otherwise) responsibility to look after the child. It does not mean they can do whatever they want to the child.

 

[DC_DEEP]

Originally posted by surferboy@Oct 19 2005, 04:32 PM
Yah, and real fuckin mature n yer attempt to mock how I talk, ass.

[post=353229]Quoted post[/post]​

Just holding myself to your high standards of maturity and intelligence, majesty. Brilliant use of name calling, by the way. And I see you are still reading and replying in a thread for which you see no reason. Again, brilliant. I can certainly understand how, although you do not advocate cutting off pieces of infants, you recognize a parents&#39; rights to do whatever they want to with their children.

 

[13788]

Jace: Noun
S: (n) amputation (a condition of disability resulting from the loss of one or more limbs)
S: (n) amputation (a surgical removal of all or part of a limb)

Noun
S: (n) Circumcision, Feast of the Circumcision, January 1 ((Roman Catholic Church and Anglican Church) feast day celebrating the circumcision of Jesus; celebrated on January 1st)
S: (n) circumcision (the act of circumcising performed on males eight days after birth as a Jewish and Muslim religious rite)
S: (n) circumcision (the act of circumcising; surgical removal of the foreskin of males)


The only similarity is they are both nouns. Since the penis is not a limb, removing the foreskin is not amputation.

 

[Pye]

Originally posted by Jace+Oct 19 2005, 03:55 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jace &#064; Oct 19 2005, 03:55 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-robertomuro@Oct 19 2005, 06:30 AM

It violates many laws locally and internationally. For example, no law has been specifically made against castration either which was something very acceptable and widely practiced as well. I have little doubt you would be found guily of assault GBH if you did it now though because of cultural changes rather than law changes.

[post=353123]Quoted post[/post]​

It&#39;s always been this way and probably always will be. It&#39;s a decision that young parents have to make, right or wrong it is their decision and as intelligent adults we should respect it as such.

[post=353218]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]


The point is that it SHOULD NOT be a decision for parents to make...and as an intelligent adult you should realise that it is WRONG

 

[13788]

Jace:

Originally posted by Pye+Oct 19 2005, 07:57 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pye &#064; Oct 19 2005, 07:57 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>

Originally posted by Jace@Oct 19 2005, 03:55 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-robertomuro

@Oct 19 2005, 06:30 AM

It violates many laws locally and internationally. For example, no law has been specifically made against castration either which was something very acceptable and widely practiced as well. I have little doubt you would be found guily of assault GBH if you did it now though because of cultural changes rather than law changes.

[post=353123]Quoted post[/post]​

It&#39;s always been this way and probably always will be. It&#39;s a decision that young parents have to make, right or wrong it is their decision and as intelligent adults we should respect it as such.

[post=353218]Quoted post[/post]​

The point is that it SHOULD NOT be a decision for parents to make...and as an intelligent adult you should realise that it is WRONG

[post=353288]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]

No the point is that it&#39;s a personal choice and none of us have the right to say whether it&#39;s right or wrong. We can have our opinions and preferrences but we don&#39;t have the right to say it&#39;s right or wrong.

 

[DC_DEEP]

Originally posted by Jace+Oct 19 2005, 08:26 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jace &#064; Oct 19 2005, 08:26 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Noun
S: (n) amputation (a condition of disability resulting from the loss of one or more limbs)
S: (n) amputation (a surgical removal of all or part of a limb)

Noun
S: (n) Circumcision, Feast of the Circumcision, January 1 ((Roman Catholic Church and Anglican Church) feast day celebrating the circumcision of Jesus; celebrated on January 1st)
S: (n) circumcision (the act of circumcising performed on males eight days after birth as a Jewish and Muslim religious rite)
S: (n) circumcision (the act of circumcising; surgical removal of the foreskin of males)


The only similarity is they are both nouns. Since the penis is not a limb, removing the foreskin is not amputation.

[post=353281]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b]

Interesting. the Webster&#39;s on my desk has its first definition of amputate as "to cut or lop off."
<!--QuoteBegin-Jace@Oct 19 2005, 09:10 PM
No the point is that it&#39;s a personal choice and none of us have the right to say whether it&#39;s right or wrong. We can have our opinions and preferrences but we don&#39;t have the right to say it&#39;s right or wrong.

[post=353295]Quoted post[/post]​

[/quote]
Would you say it was a personal choice if a parent chose to have any other part of an infant surgically removed shortly after birth, or is it only OK if it is part of his penis?

 

[13788]

Jace: That&#39;s comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Pye]

Originally posted by Jace@Oct 19 2005, 10:00 PM
That&#39;s comparing apples to oranges.

[post=353313]Quoted post[/post]​

you don&#39;t seem to understand that some of us don&#39;t think so-- it&#39;s a barbaric practice that should END

 

[DC_DEEP]

Originally posted by Jace@Oct 19 2005, 10:00 PM
That&#39;s comparing apples to oranges.

[post=353313]Quoted post[/post]​

Please explain how it is apples and oranges...

 

[13788]

Jace: You&#39;re comparing a piece of skin that is neither medically nor physically necessary to any other part of the body.

If you have issues with your being circumcised, talk to your parents as they are the ones that had it done, BUT don&#39;t try to force your views and values on the rest of us.

Maybe to some it seems barbaric, not so in all cases. For example, the doctor I work for uses a local on every circ he does, infants included. So don&#39;t try and tell me it&#39;s so traumatic and painful. I would challenge anyone that was cut at birth to genuinely recall any pain from the procedure.

As I&#39;ve stated before it is the parents choice. We all have the right to our opinions but at the same time we should also respect the opinions of those that don&#39;t share the same point of view.

Like I said earlier, if you have issues with your parents for having you cut, take it up with them and let everyone else make their own decisions.

 

[KinkGuy]

Originally posted by Jace@Oct 19 2005, 09:34 PM
You&#39;re comparing a piece of skin that is neither medically nor physically necessary to any other part of the body.

So don&#39;t try and tell me it&#39;s so traumatic and painful. I would challenge anyone that was cut at birth to genuinely recall any pain from the procedure.

As I&#39;ve stated before it is the parents choice. We all have the right to our opinions but at the same time we should also respect the opinions of those that don&#39;t share the same point of view.

[post=353342]Quoted post[/post]​

One: YES it is painful and traumatic. I have watched the actual mutilation in person and videos that can be viewed via more than one of the "anti" circ websites. It is barbaric and traumatic.

Two: What gives anyone, even parents, the right to scar and alter and forever change a defenseless infant male’s physical being?

Three: I DO NOT respect the opinion of anyone who does not or will not; acknowledge the risks, horror and mutilation involved regarding neonatal circumcision.

Four: The average bill for the hostile removal of a male infant’s foreskin is &#036;700. NOW THAT IS BARBARIC given the fact that even the Dr&#39;s routinely performing the butchery, acknowledge that circumcision is unnecessary and traumatic and life threatening. But profitable.

 

[surferboy]

I&#39;ll post in this topic if I demn well choose too, especially when you think you can mock me. I don&#39;t get why the hell you have to mock other people, as well as get all up in their business about what parents do to their children. I&#39;ve said it before dude, I totally agree that like, it&#39;s the child&#39;s penis, and not the penis of the parents, and that if, later in life, said boy wants to be cut, then he can go and do it. However, why parents circumsize their children is no one else&#39;s business&#33; There&#39;s no need for you, me, or anyone else to be butting into their lives, and telling them that their opinions are flat out wrong and "barbaric." Some children are cut for religious purposes, and the rest aren&#39;t. Who cares why? It&#39;s not like I miss my foreskin. I don&#39;t remember it. I don&#39;t remember being cut, or any pain associated with it.

 

[Dr. Dilznick]

Originally posted by aloofman+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aloofman)</div><div class='quotemain'>Will complaining about it to us make it stop? I think we&#39;ve all made our points on this subject. I&#39;m mildly surprised that the response to Katrina wasn&#39;t blamed on circumcision in some way.
[/b]

Because Aloofman knows how to start a worthwhile thread with an interesting topic of discussion.


<!--QuoteBegin-aloofman
My point had nothing to do with whether I thought you were wrong or right. I just said this subject has been discussed here over and over again. Bringing it up again just causes more of the same arguments we&#39;ve already heard.[/quote]
Implying that there shouldn&#39;t be so many, and therefore there should be threads with other topics such as.... ?