Lack of diversity in LGBTQ+ tv shows and how it has an effect in the real world

[Sagittarius84]

Effeminate and "stereotypical" gay men exist.

As do masculine and stoic gay men, the difference is I'm arguing that neither should should have a monopoly as to whom is the face of gay men, while you seem content to have said effeminate men be your sole face as long as the women stroke your precious egos(milking their objectification from the oh so willing source.)

Sorry that bothers you. If Hollywood cared enough they could produce such works, but they're clearly not invested.

What bothers me is this disingenuous observation by so many gay men whom only see the ills in their narrow portrayals when it is androcentric media "watering them down", but don't really mind being stereotypes and tropes for women, whom media primarily serve.
If you would like the eyes of men you're going to have to appeal to them, period. Y'all collectively chose to appeal to the eyes of women, bed made, lie in it, and stop complaining about the consequences when you collectively have the unilateral ability to appeal to whomever you want, if you so choose.

 

[badd mamma jamma]

As do masculine and stoic gay men, the difference is I'm arguing that neither should should have a monopoly as to whom is the face of gay men, while you seem content to have said effeminate men be your sole face as long as the women stroke your precious egos(milking their objectification from the oh so willing source.)

What bothers me is this disingenuous observation by so many gay men whom only see the ills in their narrow portrayals when it is androcentric media "watering them down", but don't really mind being stereotypes and tropes for women, whom media primarily serve.
If you would like the eyes of men you're going to have to appeal to them, period. Y'all collectively chose to appeal to the eyes of women, bed made, lie in it, and stop complaining about the consequences when you collectively have the unilateral ability to appeal to whomever you want, if you so choose.

Nothing disingenuous about my second response. This is why I wrote in my above statement that gay people need to take a page from Black Americans and focus on building our own media instead of relying solely on mainstream Hollywood for representation. Straight people need to stop being so biggoted.

 

[badd mamma jamma]

He never said it "bothers" him. Whereas you make some well-considered points, you tend to undermine them by setting up straw man arguments just to knock them down. As another example, you conclude Hollywood is "not invested" on the pretext that they do not "care enough" to produce works that others would claim are plentiful. Even assuming a paucity of such works, many reasons exist, other than indifference, for not producing more of such works.

Hollywood is indifferent to anything that doesn't yield a profit. I probably should have specified that. Also the poster I responded to said in one of their replies that they refuse to accept effeminate gay men as their just a stereotype. Not their exact words but along those lines.

 

[FrankieGuile]

Hollywood is indifferent to anything that doesn't yield a profit. I probably should have specified that. Also the poster I responded to said in one of their replies that they refuse to accept effeminate gay men as their just a stereotype. Not their exact words but along those lines.

An enterprise can both "care" and "yield a profit." Those two concepts are not mutually exclusive. You are defining how they should demonstrate that they care, and when that standard is not met, concluding the offending party does not care. That's the straw man.

 

[badd mamma jamma]

An enterprise can both "care" and "yield a profit." Those two concepts are not mutually exclusive. You are defining how they should demonstrate that they care, and when that standard is not met, concluding the offending party does not care. That's the straw man.

They can and yet they don't.

 

[Sagittarius84]

Also the poster I responded to said in one of their replies that they refuse to accept effeminate gay men as their just a stereotype. Not their exact words but along those lines.

An example of listening to respond instead of listening to comprehend. What I expressed is an obvious logical incongruence in gay mens collective comfortability with being defined and exploited simply by the effeminate, flamboyant translation common to women's tastes, yet having an issue with androcentric media not indulging in such stereotypes and opting to show gay men in a more masculine light.
If the argument is "gay men are not a monolith" then you should be equally averse to gyno- and androcentric media sources doubling down on their respective translations being the "face" of gay men, but as you're demonstrating, as long as the attention/unconditional affirmation mechanism is present from women, you really dont give two fucks how they exploit you, to the point you will help them in facilitating homophobic insults and assertions against straight men.

This is why I wrote in my above statement that gay people need to take a page from Black Americans and focus on building our own media instead of relying solely on mainstream Hollywood for representation.

Don't forget the other page that you may want to read, a big part of how we were able to get better representation and rights was because of how many leaders impelled the black community to assimilate to the white status quo, in wardrobe, grooming, and mannerisms, to gain a foothold in a world that didn't accept them, to then be able to create a space where we could be unapologetically black.

 

[FrankieGuile]

They can and yet they don't.

...which is your opinion with which others disagree, and particularly, others who work in the industry creating stories for film who state emphatically that they do care. You can choose to disbelieve them, and pretend they do not exist, but in doing so, you put yourself in league with all intolerant people who do not believe or see another person genuinely stating their own belief.

 

[Boaxy]

OP yes. I'm fucking sick of this shit too. As a gay black man myself. Who feels that it's hard not being able to relate to LGBTQ media/for inspiration/representation/people I can relate to/media outlets.

Although It seems like older shows/movies in the 90s/early 2000s (like when I was born/really wasn't existing yet lol) were starting to get it.

There was a movie called Beautiful Thing in the early 90s. (I argue it's probably so far the best Gay movie I've seen) I'm American, but the story was still relatable and it's all the same even though the characters are English. You have the main character Jamie, a gay nerdy boy, who's very rebellious, and he is bad at sports, and is kinda reclusive, and he lives in public housing with his single mother. Jamie has a best friend named Leah, a Black girl who has a identify crisis and feels she's a White 60s singer. Jamie develops a crush on his neighbor, Ste, who is a more masculine/alpha type boy, and is good at sports, however his Father and Brother are very homophobic who he lives with, which causes Ste to be confused about his sexuality (and still at the end of the movie Ste is still ambiguous about his sexuality) but he ends up accepting a friendship/relationship with Jamie at the end, and it was a very realistic ish story, that had a sweet ending.

Like the gay couple in Six Feet Under (they were all morticians/that ran a funeral home.) One of the sons/Michael C. Hall's character (he also played Dexter) his Boyfriend was a Black mortician who also worked for their business, and he played by Matthew St. Patrick, and their relationship was neutralized of course yes sadly, but it was still good.

I hate how now it seems media has gone backwards/or took some type of malfunction reverse. Like we get shit like "Call Me By Your Name", "Bros", "Royal Red White and Blue" etc. shit like that. Anything gay is always two conventional attractive white guys, (It's always two stud looking guys who randomly come across each other at the gym or something, or maybe some conventional cute Twink boy, crushing on a "straight" model/magazine/athlete type popular jock guy at school, and the Twink ends up crying in the hallway afterschool and the straight jock immediately loves him/has a secret affair with him. Yeah right smh lol.) just in some type of somber/sob story/High School story that tale is old as time, as has been told a million times, and it's just related to that. Just very unrealistic, very milquetoast, just awful. Smh.

Another reason why I started to write my own stories. Which you can DM if you would like links to my books/my stories, but yeah. Something has got to give, and we need better LGBTQ stories, and better male/male romance plots in media. As I don't know what in the hell is going on now. Smh.

 

[FrankieGuile]

Another reason why I started to write my own stories. Which you can DM if you would like links to my books/my stories, but yeah. Something has got to give, and we need better LGBTQ stories, and better male/male romance plots in media.

There are plenty just like you trying write such stories in hopes of breaking into the industry. The market exists for such content and the very talented find success, but just understand that the market is also rather specific and small compared to more mainstream offerings.

 

[badd mamma jamma]

...which is your opinion with which others disagree, and particularly, others who work in the industry creating stories for film who state emphatically that they do care. You can choose to disbelieve them, and pretend they do not exist, but in doing so, you put yourself in league with all intolerant people who do not believe or see another person genuinely stating their own belief.

I already stated in my previous posts that there are writers directors and producers on the indie scene creating diverse LGBTQIA stories, not to mention foreign films. So I don't know were your getting at with this response. When I said they I was referring to studio executives.

 

[bigboaster]

When I said they I was referring to studio executives.

Which studios though? I'm calling this into question tbh. Especially in recent years. There has been a very visible increase in POC and Queer & Queer POC characters in mainstream programming for the last few years. Not just the "indie scene" or foreign films.

And to put the cherry on top, the recent sting on Michael Giordano more or less confirms that some major studios (like freaking Disney) are putting diversity front and center
Disney Exec Takes Leave of Absence After Being Caught on Tape Claiming Company Doesn’t Hire ‘White Men'

 

[badd mamma jamma]

Which studios though? I'm calling this into question tbh. Especially in recent years. There has been a very visible increase in POC and Queer & Queer POC characters in mainstream programming for the last few years. Not just the "indie scene" or foreign films.

And to put the cherry on top, the recent sting on Michael Giordano more or less confirms that some major studios (like freaking Disney) are putting diversity front and center
Disney Exec Takes Leave of Absence After Being Caught on Tape Claiming Company Doesn’t Hire ‘White Men'

How many mainstream movies have gay lead characters who aren't stereotypes though? I never said anything about indie scene or foreign films being the "only" mediums for representation. What I did say is if you want better and more diverse LGBTQ stories than the indie scene is the way to go. Why not support our gay brothern on the indie scene anyway?

 

[FrankieGuile]

I already stated in my previous posts that there are writers directors and producers on the indie scene creating diverse LGBTQIA stories, not to mention foreign films. So I don't know were your getting at with this response. When I said they I was referring to studio executives.

I'm "getting at" a rejoinder to the post, and in doing so, mean to include studio executives who state and demonstrate that they do care about such themes. I'm "getting at" a statement that your premise they do not care is false. As such, I'm "getting at" the opinion that stubbornly disbelieving them is tantamount to blind intolerance for reasons only you can know.

 

[Kanashi]

It does not need diversity. You want something specific, make it yourself for your audience/type.

yes!!!

but human nature is such that is sooo much easier to complain than it is to actually take real action towards making a change.

i suppose however, that complaining is the first step.

i always think of the american television channel B.E.T. (black entertainment television). black folks felt that we were being under represented in television so, we created a channel dedicated to us. the u.s. conservatives did the same thing with newsmax or whatever the fuck their cable station is called.

sometimes if you want something done, you have to do it your fucking self!

 

[bigboaster]

yes!!!

but human nature is such that is sooo much easier to complain than it is to actually take real action towards making a change.

i suppose however, that complaining is the first step.

i always think of the american television channel B.E.T. (black entertainment television). black folks felt that we were being under represented in television so, we created a channel dedicated to us. the u.s. conservatives did the same thing with newsmax or whatever the fuck their cable station is called.

sometimes if you want something done, you have to do it your fucking self!

You're right. On another note. I'd say actions are being taken and there has been improvement. It's just that some groups and organizations seem to want extraordinary results way too quickly? For example, per GLAAD's own analysis:

Across broadcast, Cable & streaming. Black representation remained steady with 95 Black LGBTQ characters of 468 LGBTQ characters (20 percent). This is the same percentage as the previous year.

Representation of LGBTQ Black Characters – Where We Are on TV 2023-2024 | GLAAD

These are good numbers considering that Blacks make up just 11% of the US LGBT population and about 12.6% of the US overall. But GLAAD presents these numbers as dismal or disappointing. Why?

 

[Khaled200503]

I personally think things are getting a lot better though compared to several years ago, but people often only focus on the projects they can criticize rather than uplift lesser known diverse work that absolutely does exist. I would list some examples but I don't much see the point?

This isn't shade to OP but this post definitely feels like victimization to me. Sorry, that is just my opinion though, it's not an attack on you by any means but I don't dwell in this headspace, and I myself am a black gay man just fyi but someone tries anything lol smh

girl, being a black gay man doesn’t mean your opinion is valid. It’s an observable fact that queer male characters tend to be white/part white men with skinny/muscular builds. It’s a lack of diversity when it comes to ethnicity and body types. Like look at the media that Luca and Ryan Murphy make. Most of the men look the same and are either white or part white

 

[Khaled200503]

The fact that people get attack people who want more diversity in queer media is wild. We get that you prefer white part white men who are muscular/skinny but this is acting not Sean Cody. It’s about real people and realism should be involved

 

[Khaled200503]

To say "decent people" are very rare in the gay community is ridiculous. There are assholes in every group including the gay community and I certainly can think of some. But most of the people are good. You just need to be open and let go of your negative preconceptions and you will find the good ones.

Were you against Dave Chapelle generalizing white gay men as racists?