hello all, i have travelled to many different countries and have noticed that in western world/culture, female nudity is much more acceptable that male nudity from what i have seen in gyms, beaches, parties etc (please feel free to correct me if i am wrong) and i have no problem with that.. but when it comes to male nudity, most people i have met (both men n women) are very opposed to male nudity, i will share some comments that i have heard from them: male nudity is objectionable and bad while female nudity is beautiful; men should not wear briefs/bikini briefs underwears as its weird but women wearing g strings/thongs are good; men shorts should not be less than knee length but women's shorts can be as small as it can be, men who wears short clothes must be gay (but for some reason they say women wearing short clothes are not lesbian haha)...and from my experience, its not a fringe group that has the above beliefs/notions.. and i have been to many countries where most men wear briefs as underwears and its is not at all related to being straight or gay n not looked down upon...n both male n female nudity (in public) is equally acceptable or equally not acceptable by the society in general.. so i would love to hear from people from western culture (north america, europe, etc) and other cultures about how they view male n female nudity?
Most nudity in the west is all about advertising. Female nudity is more normalized because it tends to get more attention, whether it’s due to the ads working as intended or controversy revolving around the depiction being too sexual/demeaning/etc. Meanwhile, male nudity just doesn’t work as effectively for ads. It can work in specific communities like with gay men. But for straight men and women, it’s more effective to have the man depicted in opulence. Why have him shirtless when you can have him in a Versace suit? With the assumption being that he has the lifestyle to afford the suit, thus making him more desirable or aspirational as a man.
One could argue that being scantily clad is seen as a feminine trait in the west, so there’s no reason for men to appear as such outside of situations where it would make sense, like swimming. But I dunno if that idea would hold up to scrutiny. After all, there’s not really an issue with men being casually shirtless while women in bras and swimsuits are usually only found in appropriate settings. For example, Abercrombie is infamous for having their guys shirtless in ads, and they’re a clothing company.
One could argue that being scantily clad is seen as a feminine trait in the west, so there’s no reason for men to appear as such outside of situations where it would make sense, like swimming. But I dunno if that idea would hold up to scrutiny. After all, there’s not really an issue with men being casually shirtless while women in bras and swimsuits are usually only found in appropriate settings. For example, Abercrombie is infamous for having their guys shirtless in ads, and they’re a clothing company.
I am a bit cynical about this but I think in U.S. it is primarily based on history of white heterosexual male control of everything so they love any excuse to see a naked woman - if she's hot, of course. A naked male in public is an exhibitionist pervert who is likely to be homosexual and also inclined to molestation.
Women have always been sexualized in western society. In the U.S. specifically, women are often treated as sex objects and judged based on their looks. This is why so much advertising has to do with women’s beauty products, from clothes, to hair, to make-up, it’s all about presenting an attractive appearance, mostly for the benefit of men (who are much more likely to be CEOs of most of these companies). All this results in scantily clad women being somewhat normalized in society, as opposed to men.
- kj23,
most of the negativity about male nudity seems to come from other men though. Tbh, I wore very short shorts in the gym when I was younger and the amount of girls I get to know and have some form of fun is quite high. That kind dropped when I started wearing more modestly. Still getting the same hit at the pool though, as I've kept the speedos instead of swim shorts.
heinz.friedrich
Expert Member
And what is the difference between other heterosexual males in the US and how do women view it in the US?
I dont see any difference between Americans in general.
I think this is more based on the difference between men and women. Women also see women as sexual objects or have similar processes about themselves as men have about women.
Research shows brains see men as people, women as body parts | Announce | University of Nebraska-Lincoln
I think that is a hormonal process and not based on western society. I quoted a study above.
Furthermore, men are also objectified. There are a lot of examples on this forum but I think that is rather rare.
I have no idea why you are arguing with me about this when the research you are pointing to literally validates my statement. Nothing in that research contradicts my statement; it only supports it. The fact that men CAN ALSO BE objectified is completely irrelevant. The data shows that women are more likely to be perceived as sex objects than men. The question relates to perceptions of male vs female nudity in the west, and specifically about why female nudity is more acceptable. The answer is because women are perceived as sex objects, period! You could ask WHY this is the case, and I'm sure there are many theories which might explain this ranging from biological (hard wired) to environmental (societal influence). But the fact that the perception is not universal and can also be altered suggests that it's more a result of societal factors than biological.
Well, there is a difference. The fact of the matter is white men exercise a lot of control in all of our institutions, including entertainment and adult entertainment. The porn industry is no exception as the vast majority of porn CEOs are white, heterosexual men.
The most powerful people in porn
It is consequently from their perception that the porn industry is marketed. Black men are statistically more likely to watch pornography than any other demographic, but white men make up the lions share of raw porn consumed in the United States.
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Simple: Men are visually aroused and women are contextually aroused. Therefore, societal standards adhere to these differing traits.
heinz.friedrich
Expert Member
The part about the West is redundant, because if it is hormonal it is probably the case everywhere.
For the rest, I added to your statement. Not every comment is a critic. A lot of the time people just talk with others they agree upon.
But if you defend another post, you say otherwise now. So you have to decide what you want to believe in you cannot claim both things.
That is a joke right? Is it more acceptable in the USA? And which countries are the West for you? I could show more nudity and there would be less outrage in my opinion. But I dont live in the US.
That is also what this guy said:
So it seem to be more acceptable for men to show nudity.
Yes but there is no difference about white men and other men and their view of women. The post of this user only makes sense if they view it differently. There is no study that says something like that.
If there is proof, show it to me. You claimed it, so you have to prove it.
If both genders agree to objectify women it has hardly anything to do with sex and heterosexual white males. Both men and women are responsible.
You claim otherwise now
Black men in the US and white men in the US?
These statistics make only sense if you compare it wordwide. And even then it is not really racially based. It depends how people are raised.
I doubt that porn is really different depending on who controls the porn industry. The only difference is probably the country where the industry is located.
It's not redundant because his question was specifically about "the West", which logically means he was contrasting it with "the East". You are the one who brought up hormones! And while it is true that everyone is affected by hormones, that doesn't translate to people treating women the same because of hormones. The fact of the matter is, "it" is not the case everywhere that female nudity is more acceptable than male nudity. We only have to look to countries in the Arabian peninsula to see that.
Is it more acceptable in the USA? Yes, it is. And the same is generally true in Canada and the United Kingdom as well.
Which countries are considered the West? That would be most of the countries in Western Europe, the British Isles, the United States, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.
Regarding the guy who said: "After all, there’s not really an issue with men being casually shirtless while women in bras and swimsuits are usually only found in appropriate settings. For example, Abercrombie is infamous for having their guys shirtless in ads, and they’re a clothing company." - I completely disagree with that. If we are equating men being shirtless with women being in bras and bikinis, then in all actuality women are featured as bikini models just as often (if not more often) in giant billboards in public places throughout the United States and the United Kingdom. Whether or not these are "appropriate" places is a subjective opinion of course.
No, you're wrong. First of all, I didn't claim that (you are putting words in my mouth). I said: "white men exercise a lot of control in all of our institutions, including entertainment and adult entertainment", and this was in response to Raybo Revoy attributing that to the reason for why female nudity is more acceptable in the west.
Secondly, there's a difference between the internal objectification of women (what is happening in the brain) and the overt sexualization of women in the media. What happens in the brain and what is acceptable in society are two different things. The latter is a manifestation of the former, and you do not see that everywhere. When we are talking about why it is acceptable in society to depict female nudity as opposed to male nudity, we are largely talking about the latter.
Now, you say that is "no difference" between white men and other men's views of women, but that is not the issue. The issue is what is acceptable in society, and the west is controlled by white men! If society was controlled by another demographic you cannot conclude that it would be exactly the same way due to hormones because what becomes acceptable in society goes beyond hormones. If black men were controlling the industries, we don't know that women would be as objectified sexually in the media as they are now. We certainly don't see that kind of thing in most African countries where people are generally more conservative and religious. Saying all of this to say, we don't have enough information to conclude that any other type of men would lead to the sexual objectification of women in society if they were in charge. We only know that the white man who control the industries in the west have actualized that reality!
You can have all the "doubts" you want; but the thing you need for a compelling argument is EVIDENCE. How people are raised is indicative of culture, and that's the point you are missing here. Japanese porn for example is often very different in presentation than American porn (which differs only slightly from European porn). They all tend to have different focuses and subgenres. To suggest that there is no difference based on who is controlling it flies in the face of that. The culture of the west is influenced by WHITE MEN (or to be more accurate, Eurocentric patriarchal influence). The culture of most African countries, the Middle East, Asia, and South America are not. And when we look "worldwide" we do not see the same level objectification of women (or nudity in general) treated in the same way as we do in "the west". It varies significantly by culture. In some countries, both male and female nudity is considered acceptable, in other countries NEITHER are considered acceptable. That is a function of society, which is influenced by culture, not hormones!
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This is spot on. There is a lot of latent and closet homosexuality that men have been shamed for thinking is evil. Sadly a result of the religious zealots and fire and brimstone preaching of the 50s 60s and 70s. It’s now more politics than anything else.
halcyondays
Worshipped Member
It's mate selection behavior in our species. Males objectify (select) females based on their looks. Females objectify (select) males based on their social status.
Ever wonder why there's a massive beauty industry for women but almost no beauty industry for men? This is why. Females are competing with each other to look good to attract males.
Ever wonder why high social status men attract so many women? This is why. Males are competing with each other for social status to attract females.
These mate selection behaviors are instinctual in our species. Like all instincts they are driven by an adaptive advantage. That advantage is reproductive success.
The beauty industry makes women look young. Females of our species reproduce most successfully when they are young--mid teens to mid 20s peaking at 21-22 (remember the retailer Forever 21? That's why). Males of our species know this instinctually and respond most strongly to youthful female looks. Beauty.
Females of our species are most attracted to high social status males because reproductive success for females is becoming grandmothers and that requires at least a generation of resources. Money. Twenty or thirty years of it. High social status males are best at providing it.
Want more proof that reproductive success for human females is becoming grandmothers? Menopause. Until recently we were the only species we knew where females stop ovulating and live on for years even decades. Having raised their own children these (now non-reproducing females) help raise grandchildren maybe even great grandchildren furthering reproductive success.
Pass your genes along.
tl;dr - To answer the OP's question why so much female skin/nudity and almost no male skin/nudity? Females use it in competition with each other to attract males. Males don't use it attract females. It's instinctual mating behavior in our species.
Biology rules.
Ever wonder why there's a massive beauty industry for women but almost no beauty industry for men? This is why. Females are competing with each other to look good to attract males.
Ever wonder why high social status men attract so many women? This is why. Males are competing with each other for social status to attract females.
These mate selection behaviors are instinctual in our species. Like all instincts they are driven by an adaptive advantage. That advantage is reproductive success.
The beauty industry makes women look young. Females of our species reproduce most successfully when they are young--mid teens to mid 20s peaking at 21-22 (remember the retailer Forever 21? That's why). Males of our species know this instinctually and respond most strongly to youthful female looks. Beauty.
Females of our species are most attracted to high social status males because reproductive success for females is becoming grandmothers and that requires at least a generation of resources. Money. Twenty or thirty years of it. High social status males are best at providing it.
Want more proof that reproductive success for human females is becoming grandmothers? Menopause. Until recently we were the only species we knew where females stop ovulating and live on for years even decades. Having raised their own children these (now non-reproducing females) help raise grandchildren maybe even great grandchildren furthering reproductive success.
Pass your genes along.
tl;dr - To answer the OP's question why so much female skin/nudity and almost no male skin/nudity? Females use it in competition with each other to attract males. Males don't use it attract females. It's instinctual mating behavior in our species.
Biology rules.
The urge for multiple partners in males is particularly strong due to instinct as well. Early man had to reproduce as frequently as possible to keep the species alive.It's mate selection behavior in our species. Males objectify (select) females based on their looks. Females objectify (select) males based on their social status.
Ever wonder why there's a massive beauty industry for women but almost no beauty industry for men? This is why. Females are competing with each other to look good to attract males.
Ever wonder why high social status men attract so many women? This is why. Males are competing with each other for social status to attract females.
These mate selection behaviors are instinctual in our species. Like all instincts they are driven by an adaptive advantage. That advantage is reproductive success.
The beauty industry makes women look young. Females of our species reproduce most successfully when they are young--mid teens to mid 20s peaking at 21-22 (remember the retailer Forever 21? That's why). Males of our species know this instinctually and respond most strongly to youthful female looks. Beauty.
Females of our species are most attracted to high social status males because reproductive success for females is becoming grandmothers and that requires at least a generation of resources. Money. Twenty or thirty years of it. High social status males are best at providing it.
Want more proof that reproductive success for human females is becoming grandmothers? Menopause. Until recently we were the only species we knew where females stop ovulating and live on for years even decades. Having raised their own children these (now non-reproducing females) help raise grandchildren maybe even great grandchildren furthering reproductive success.
Pass your genes along.
tl;dr - To answer the OP's question why so much female skin/nudity and almost no male skin/nudity? Females use it in competition with each other to attract males. Males don't use it attract females. It's instinctual mating behavior in our species.
Biology rules.
halcyondays
Worshipped Member
Most definitely! Our species doesn't instinctually form exclusive lifetime one-on-one heterosexual pair bonds. If we did we'd all be bonded to the first person with whom we mated. Marriage is a social and cultural construct enforced by taboo which drives our instinctual behaviors underground via sexual repression.
The female body is more celebrated, represented, accepted I think!
I have even seen a lot of candles in department stores lately that are the shape of the naked female torso! I just know that would not happen with male. It would be seen as homoerotic or 'gay sex-shoppy' lol
I have even seen a lot of candles in department stores lately that are the shape of the naked female torso! I just know that would not happen with male. It would be seen as homoerotic or 'gay sex-shoppy' lol
hardboy_fll
Loved Member
That is clearly the viewpoint of a heterosexual male. If a woman is aroused by a statue of a nude male is it still homoerotic?
thanks for the answer, i am surprised that how come women havenot objected to this notion so far as there is no equality when it comes to sexualization of men versus women, even in today's age of gender equality. I mean at nude beaches, where every one is nude, it is equality.. but seeing women in so tiny bikinis at beaches, and men in long boardshorts, i really can't find any gender equality there..and i think the places where men can be shirtless, women are seen in bras/sports bras as well, however, i have not seen any place where men wear tight bikini or thong style swimwear and if at all they do, it would not be without being considered pervert or gay... so why doesn't society just accept that straight men can wear whatever they want just like straight women without being associated with sexuality?
but given the fact that now women have asked equality in all the things then how come this issue have not been come to their attention, that men just like to see women naked everywhere however they themselves will hide themselves as much as they can. I really can't understand when people say that men wearing brief style underwear is bad or pervert or being gay, but women wearing much smaller bikinis is the right thing..
thanks for this great answer, you have really raised a very important point and a big bias that exists in the western society today and i think some people just want this bias to go on as it benefits them, you are very right, as even if its a male product like men's underwear or perfume, you will see a naked women there always. women are really so much sexualized and objectified here but i am so shocked that how come women haven't noticed that at all.. this should have been a big topic of discussion in various public forums that why women have to be shown naked n objectified everywhere while men are covered, how come this issue is not being addressed?
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