Male vs female nudity perception in west

[deleted25930521]

most of the negativity about male nudity seems to come from other men though. Tbh, I wore very short shorts in the gym when I was younger and the amount of girls I get to know and have some form of fun is quite high. That kind dropped when I started wearing more modestly. Still getting the same hit at the pool though, as I've kept the speedos instead of swim shorts.

yes, i agree i also heard more negative comments from men than women, but these are the same men who just want to see women naked at parties, beaches, pubs... that's why me coming from a non-western culture, i have been so much surprised to see how much inequality there is in terms of nudity acceptance between men n women, and its quite easy to understand who will benefit the most if women are naked....

 

[deleted25930521]

And what is the difference between other heterosexual males in the US and how do women view it in the US?

I dont see any difference between Americans in general.



I think this is more based on the difference between men and women. Women also see women as sexual objects or have similar processes about themselves as men have about women.


Research shows brains see men as people, women as body parts | Announce | University of Nebraska-Lincoln


I think that is a hormonal process and not based on western society. I quoted a study above.

Furthermore, men are also objectified. There are a lot of examples on this forum but I think that is rather rare.

no, i don't think so women see themselves as sexual objects.. nobody wants to see themselves sexualized all the time, i know many women just feel so uncomfortable (especially from non western world) to see other women naked all the time in advertisements, movies, tv series, etc etc.. and the study you mentioned, it would be worth checking what was the sample size, who all were studied, and from which countries.. but i also want to mention, sometimes when things are happening from many many years, your brain just accepts it that it is the only way.. but as an outsider, i can see the difference..

 

[deleted25930521]

I have no idea why you are arguing with me about this when the research you are pointing to literally validates my statement. Nothing in that research contradicts my statement; it only supports it. The fact that men CAN ALSO BE objectified is completely irrelevant. The data shows that women are more likely to be perceived as sex objects than men. The question relates to perceptions of male vs female nudity in the west, and specifically about why female nudity is more acceptable. The answer is because women are perceived as sex objects, period! You could ask WHY this is the case, and I'm sure there are many theories which might explain this ranging from biological (hard wired) to environmental (societal influence). But the fact that the perception is not universal and can also be altered suggests that it's more a result of societal factors than biological.

i really like your answer, thats explains a lot of things

 

[deleted25930521]

Well, there is a difference. The fact of the matter is white men exercise a lot of control in all of our institutions, including entertainment and adult entertainment. The porn industry is no exception as the vast majority of porn CEOs are white, heterosexual men.

The most powerful people in porn

It is consequently from their perception that the porn industry is marketed. Black men are statistically more likely to watch pornography than any other demographic, but white men make up the lions share of raw porn consumed in the United States.

thanks for bringing this fact... i didn't know this..

 

[deleted25930521]

Simple: Men are visually aroused and women are contextually aroused. Therefore, societal standards adhere to these differing traits.

but maybe you are referring to western world here, because i can tell not everywhere in the world this holds true that men just get visually aroused... this is not a universal phenomenon but i think its the case in the west.. so that explains..

 

[deleted25930521]

It's not redundant because his question was specifically about "the West", which logically means he was contrasting it with "the East". You are the one who brought up hormones! And while it is true that everyone is affected by hormones, that doesn't translate to people treating women the same because of hormones. The fact of the matter is, "it" is not the case everywhere that female nudity is more acceptable than male nudity. We only have to look to countries in the Arabian peninsula to see that.

Is it more acceptable in the USA? Yes, it is. And the same is generally true in Canada and the United Kingdom as well.

Which countries are considered the West? That would be most of the countries in Western Europe, the British Isles, the United States, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.

Regarding the guy who said: "After all, there’s not really an issue with men being casually shirtless while women in bras and swimsuits are usually only found in appropriate settings. For example, Abercrombie is infamous for having their guys shirtless in ads, and they’re a clothing company." - I completely disagree with that. If we are equating men being shirtless with women being in bras and bikinis, then in all actuality women are featured as bikini models just as often (if not more often) in giant billboards in public places throughout the United States and the United Kingdom. Whether or not these are "appropriate" places is a subjective opinion of course.

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No, you're wrong. First of all, I didn't claim that (you are putting words in my mouth). I said: "white men exercise a lot of control in all of our institutions, including entertainment and adult entertainment", and this was in response to Raybo Revoy attributing that to the reason for why female nudity is more acceptable in the west.

Secondly, there's a difference between the internal objectification of women (what is happening in the brain) and the overt sexualization of women in the media. What happens in the brain and what is acceptable in society are two different things. The latter is a manifestation of the former, and you do not see that everywhere. When we are talking about why it is acceptable in society to depict female nudity as opposed to male nudity, we are largely talking about the latter.

Now, you say that is "no difference" between white men and other men's views of women, but that is not the issue. The issue is what is acceptable in society, and the west is controlled by white men! If society was controlled by another demographic you cannot conclude that it would be exactly the same way due to hormones because what becomes acceptable in society goes beyond hormones. If black men were controlling the industries, we don't know that women would be as objectified sexually in the media as they are now. We certainly don't see that kind of thing in most African countries where people are generally more conservative and religious. Saying all of this to say, we don't have enough information to conclude that any other type of men would lead to the sexual objectification of women in society if they were in charge. We only know that the white man who control the industries in the west have actualized that reality!



You can have all the "doubts" you want; but the thing you need for a compelling argument is EVIDENCE. How people are raised is indicative of culture, and that's the point you are missing here. Japanese porn for example is often very different in presentation than American porn (which differs only slightly from European porn). They all tend to have different focuses and subgenres. To suggest that there is no difference based on who is controlling it flies in the face of that. The culture of the west is influenced by WHITE MEN (or to be more accurate, Eurocentric patriarchal influence). The culture of most African countries, the Middle East, Asia, and South America are not. And when we look "worldwide" we do not see the same level objectification of women (or nudity in general) treated in the same way as we do in "the west". It varies significantly by culture. In some countries, both male and female nudity is considered acceptable, in other countries NEITHER are considered acceptable. That is a function of society, which is influenced by culture, not hormones!

thanks for the detailed answer, and I can attest to all the people who are just universalizing what's happening in the west, that it is very different in different parts of the world, there are many countries where you would not find any women in bikini or shorter clothes in public or in posters, and neither men in bikini style underwears or any swimwear at all, then there are other countries where you would find both sexes equally nude, and yes in some countries men wearing bikini style underwear or swimwear is very common (and they are not gay).. and that's why i asked this question in the first place... because i find in the west, women nudity is so very common and men's nudity is considered so bad...but thanks for your insightful answer with facts and figures, i think i know the reason now.. but its somehow very shocking to me... as I had always thought that west is the champion in gender related equality..i think it is in terms of jobs, work, n other things but not in nudity...

 

[Trekrider]

; men should not wear briefs/bikini briefs underwears as its weird but women wearing g strings/thongs are good; men shorts should not be less than knee length but women's shorts can be as small as it can be, men who wears short clothes must be gay (but for some reason they say women wearing short clothes are not lesbian haha)

I'd say you haven't been to Australia or NZ, because men wearing short shorts is normal, and not a sign of being gay. On the contrary, it's also a sign of straight masculinity, because short shorts are part of our NRL/AFL/rugby culture. Footy shorts are revered in the bogan and tradie world too. This happens to work out very nicely for gay men who like wearing them, because no one thinks anything of it.
Also, Speedos were invented in Australia so they're part of our culture too. Men in this part of the world, in general, don't have a problem with showing their body.

 

[deleted25930521]

thanks for the answer, makes sense.. so, just asking in general, in your observation, do men (where you live) generally wear briefs as an underwear or they go for boxer briefs or boxers? and if you see someone in briefs in changing room at gym, would that person be more likely to be ridiculed or considered different or nobody will care, as its just an underwear?

I'd say you haven't been to Australia or NZ, because men wearing short shorts is normal, and not a sign of being gay. On the contrary, it's also a sign of straight masculinity, because short shorts are part of our NRL/AFL/rugby culture. Footy shorts are revered in the bogan and tradie world too. This happens to work out very nicely for gay men who like wearing them, because no one thinks anything of it.
Also, Speedos were invented in Australia so they're part of our culture too. Men in this part of the world, in general, don't have a problem with showing their body.

 

[Trekrider]

thanks for the answer, makes sense.. so, just asking in general, in your observation, do men (where you live) generally wear briefs as an underwear or they go for boxer briefs or boxers? and if you see someone in briefs in changing room at gym, would that person be more likely to be ridiculed or considered different or nobody will care, as its just an underwear?

Yes, briefs are very popular here. Boxer briefs started to become popular maybe 10 years ago. Growing up, I only ever saw boxers in American movies, but I first started to notice them around 25 years ago. They would be the least common kind of underwear. Briefs would go completely unnoticed in a change room. Also it's worth mentioning that Speedos were invented in Australia. I know of one incident where the son of a work colleague who visited a beach in the U.S. wearing Speedos was told he was indecent.

 

[hopeforever]

Simple: Men are visually aroused and women are contextually aroused. Therefore, societal standards adhere to these differing traits.

women are very visual too....why do you think Im on here looking....a good body and hard cock is a turn on...and dont have to know them to like what I see and get aroused...

 

[hopeforever]

no, i don't think so women see themselves as sexual objects.. nobody wants to see themselves sexualized all the time, i know many women just feel so uncomfortable (especially from non western world) to see other women naked all the time in advertisements, movies, tv series, etc etc.. and the study you mentioned, it would be worth checking what was the sample size, who all were studied, and from which countries.. but i also want to mention, sometimes when things are happening from many many years, your brain just accepts it that it is the only way.. but as an outsider, i can see the difference..

I agree.....,so tired of naked women and never do we get to see naked men. if it is necessary to show the woman to get the point across then you should show the man in the same light and for the same length ...let us have a good view.

 

[heinz.friedrich]

no, i don't think so women see themselves as sexual objects.. nobody wants to see themselves sexualized all the time, i know many women just feel so uncomfortable (especially from non western world) to see other women naked all the time in advertisements, movies, tv series, etc etc.. and the study you mentioned, it would be worth checking what was the sample size, who all were studied, and from which countries.. but i also want to mention, sometimes when things are happening from many many years, your brain just accepts it that it is the only way.. but as an outsider, i can see the difference..

Naked women are seen as object nomatter if a men or women views them. Or at least, the same brain circuits are activated that are activated when objects are viewed. The studies should have been mentioned in the link or you can google or otherwise search them.

Yes some men are conformfortable, too, especially in the non-western world if you mean Arabic, Turkish men and some are not. But it always depends how they are raised not where they come from.

I dont even know half of the time what people mean with West and East, here . Or if I am now West or East.

There are so many differences between countries and in one country, that it is not worth generalizing.

I also only trust studies on these kind of behaviours.

 

[deleted25930521]

Yes, briefs are very popular here. Boxer briefs started to become popular maybe 10 years ago. Growing up, I only ever saw boxers in American movies, but I first started to notice them around 25 years ago. They would be the least common kind of underwear. Briefs would go completely unnoticed in a change room. Also it's worth mentioning that Speedos were invented in Australia. I know of one incident where the son of a work colleague who visited a beach in the U.S. wearing Speedos was told he was indecent.

thanks, and by the way, i am not surprised at all with that incident... lol..

 

[deleted25930521]

I agree.....,so tired of naked women and never do we get to see naked men. if it is necessary to show the woman to get the point across then you should show the man in the same light and for the same length ...let us have a good view.

i 100000% agree with you, because thats the only way to get equality among men and women...