I like deodorant. One of my biggest fears of the Zombie Apocalypse is no deodorant and everyone stinks.
Old Masculinity and male bonding
- Thread starter Janvier75
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Yes, I can understand why this might be your primary fear. Better stock up by visiting your local drugstore...
In my opinion, a good but barely recognized example of how male bonding has changed over the years is the inclusion of privacy barriers between urinals. At one time, men were unafraid to expose their dicks to other men in the simple view that having dicks added to their commonality with other men. But now many men are afraid to let other men see their dicks out of fear that other men might be lusting after their dicks.
sorry if this sounded weird at all.
Its something Ive always remembered and seeing those pics and talking with him made me realise I liked men
I agree with you.
We're all boys and men: When I piss at a urinal, you're not going to pull out something that I've never seen before.
Whether you're a NFL player, car mechanic, or a gay artist, men are all the same between the legs (just different shapes and sizes).
Where I really agree with you is this: So what if another man finds your dick attractive. It's a compliment.
Back in the 70s, my father was teased about his big dick. All his workmates, etc saw his big peter at the urinal (no barriers). They called my dad "John Holmes." They were jealous of my dad's big dick. It was all just good ole' boy fun. Why are we all so uptight
That's why I am on LPSG. I have the desire to share my dick with my boys, but not just in a sexual way. I do it for bonding, for fun, etc.
I had a few buddies on a Penis Enlargement site. They said that they want to talk about their dicks with other men as a way to bond, etc. They weren't looking for sex with men. They liked seeing big dicks in porn, etc, like most men.
If women want to look at it, I welcome them. I like pussy and big titties.
I know that in NFL locker rooms, dudes talk about their dicks and having a big dick a lot. But, average men don't have access to that world.
Some of the well-hung dudes talk very casually and open about their penises: "I'm going to put my big dick here and take a piss." Some of them talk like that. I know this from interviews with football podcast from former players. I heard this a few times.
We don't need urinal dividers.
In everyday life, we men act like Puritans with our dicks, and then come home and pull it out in front of a computer.
Some of the well-hung dudes talk very casually and open about their penises: "I'm going to put my big dick here and take a piss." Some of them talk like that. I know this from interviews with football podcast from former players. I heard this a few times.
We don't need urinal dividers.
In everyday life, we men act like Puritans with our dicks, and then come home and pull it out in front of a computer.
And yet.... I found myself thinking of places like the opera or symphony or theatre, where people are often dressed up a I bit (tho' not so formal as it used to be) and then they go take a pis and are about 4 inches from the next guy... in his nice suit and pissing away... somehow, I find that a kind of slap in the face given the high-brow culture of the situation, so in that case I prefer the dividers. Is that weird?
This might be a special case.
But we need to teach our boys to have no shame in having a penis. Dividers promote insecurity.
The vast majority of men are very average in size. They are not porn-star hung like the men on LPSG.
Yeah, it's a rarefied atmosphere at that kind of concert/performance.
I was just writing my buddy who sends me incredibly hot men whose photos he finds on Twitter. (Well, he doesn't exactly send me the MEN; I mean he send me the pics!!
I said to him that I know perfectly well that the superstar models are rare, but when you're confronted with about 20 in a row in an email, it's hard not to believe that 98% of guys are hung like that!
Yes, because of porn and the internet, we start to think every dude has a fat dick like me (sorry for the bragging, but it's LPSG). There's nothing impressive about the vast majority of men's dicks. I've seen thousands over the years. Very well-hung men are not at all common. Big length is more common than big girth -- I found that out over the years.
If I see I dude I think could be longer than me (hard to outdo me in girth), I feel threatened by his dick. I"m mentally ill about dick size. I admit it, though.
Take care.
Great thread! And it reminds us of what it USED to mean to be a man---confident and assured with his peers, no matter what sort of body he had, or how big his dick.
I think we've backed ourselves into a corner, really. In an effort to move away from "toxic masculinity" (which we did need to do), we seem to have gone too far in the opposite direction, and affected our own psyches. I'm not sure when it started to become apparent that men "needed" privacy...and became ashamed of their own bodies. Maybe it was gay porn leaning into the heavily-muscled, big-dicked males...or maybe the women seeming to outwardly prefer those types of men. But, we lost something somewhere along the way.
What's worse, I find it socially strange that women are allowed and encouraged to have BFFs, whom they interact with much of their day. Yet if a man has a bud that he likes to be in contact with frequently, it's immediately assumed that he's gay or bi. I hardly think that most of the guys in the above pics are gay...or even bi. It just wasn't looked at that way not too long ago. As the OP mentioned, men had many different opportunities to bond in the past---naked or otherwise. Now, we're all at home in silos.
Men are different when they are naked with each other---their masks and pretenses are down. They can't hide anything...and their honesty comes out. It's more relaxed...less competitive. The locker room used to be one of the few places left where guys could interact in this way. Now, it's all the "towel dance"...
Not good...not good...
I think we've backed ourselves into a corner, really. In an effort to move away from "toxic masculinity" (which we did need to do), we seem to have gone too far in the opposite direction, and affected our own psyches. I'm not sure when it started to become apparent that men "needed" privacy...and became ashamed of their own bodies. Maybe it was gay porn leaning into the heavily-muscled, big-dicked males...or maybe the women seeming to outwardly prefer those types of men. But, we lost something somewhere along the way.
What's worse, I find it socially strange that women are allowed and encouraged to have BFFs, whom they interact with much of their day. Yet if a man has a bud that he likes to be in contact with frequently, it's immediately assumed that he's gay or bi. I hardly think that most of the guys in the above pics are gay...or even bi. It just wasn't looked at that way not too long ago. As the OP mentioned, men had many different opportunities to bond in the past---naked or otherwise. Now, we're all at home in silos.
Men are different when they are naked with each other---their masks and pretenses are down. They can't hide anything...and their honesty comes out. It's more relaxed...less competitive. The locker room used to be one of the few places left where guys could interact in this way. Now, it's all the "towel dance"...
Not good...not good...
I am convinced that the general change in attitude among men about being nude in the presence of one another is a manifestation of deeply rooted homophobia. At one time in our soceity, people did't think much about the existance of hmosexuality and its variations. But this has changed with the passage of time, being replaced--if not in all situations--at least in those involving any sort of nudity with fear of what the other person's interest in them might actually be; or, even more interestingly, the concern might be why would men who have no desire to have sex with each other be exposing their private parts to each other? That is supposed to be something that they do only with their {female} sexual partners.
I think that you've pretty much hit the nail on the head. My dad was a part of the Greatest Generation, and active in WWII. From what I saw of him and his peers, they were all very comfortable both with male nudity as a result of being in the service, and also very comfortable with whatever homosexuality was there amongst them. The old saying of just wanting to be able to "trust the guy in the foxhole next to you" must have pretty much negated almost any sort of hatred of anyone's sexual leanings. Additionally, he was also a first-generation-American child of immigrants, who probably brought over a lot of the more laissez-faire European attitudes toward sex (of any sort). As a result, he was comfortable with homosexuality...as were most of his peers. I often hung around them as they got together to work on their cars or their home projects...and the talk often got very raunchy, as it usually does with men and cars and beer. But, I NEVER heard any negative slams towards homosexuals. My family had friends who were both gay and lesbian...and this was all during the McCarthy witch hunts where gay men were a particular target. I never even heard the word "gay" until I got older.
Since then, though, it seems that Evangelical Religion has taken this country by storm. And with it, a complete fear of both the naked body (particularly the male body)...and of homosexuality. Growing up, religion was never a big deal in my environment, outside of Sunday (or Friday) services. Religion wasn't talked about in social groups outside of church, and it wasn't talked about in school (I had friends of so many different religions you couldn't count them). Instead, it was a very private matter for yourself, and your family. Now, of course, it's all shouted from the rooftops...and people seem to be browbeaten into behaving certain ways. I really do have to laugh at how men at the gym do the "towel dance" (it takes so much effort)...or will go into the showers or sauna in their underwear so no one ever sees their genitals.
That is very different from when I grew up. And, I don't find it an "improvement" or a "moral compass" at all. It is merely stupid and hateful...and I think that it has a LOT to do with the growing issues of males losing their way in today's society. It is not all about women "taking their place", or becoming more aggressive themselves. Instead, men cannot bond with each other anymore...and end up feeling isolated and unsure of just who they are. And then, they end up on sites like this to try to figure it all out.
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Very well stated.
I disagree. I think there are several factors that have influenced people's attitudes.
1.) In the past most men couldn't avoid situations where they had to be undressed in front of other men so they got used to it. When the draft existed there were more men who had to deal with barracks, open showers, and the overall lack of privacy that exists in the military. Many schools required swimming (sometimes nude swimming) and showers after gym class. There were larger families and fewer bathrooms in homes, so kids got used to sharing a bedroom or even being in the bathroom when a brother, father, uncle, male cousin, etc. was showering.
2.) As mentioned by others, there is the ubiquity of cameras these days, and while it's not common for people to use them in a changing room, it does happen.
3.) One thing that is overlooked is also the growing absence of fathers or father figures. I am NOT attacking single mothers, they have a very difficult job. But I think many of them don't understand that it's normal (or at least used to be) for guys to just get naked in front of each other in locker rooms, and if they do understand they can't lead by example. I've heard stories about complaints about having to change in a locker room for whatever reason As a result, some adult men feel the need to cover up to avoid being accused of perversion. I do occasionally see a father at the gym who will bring his sons with him to the locker room and they see that he's not afraid to be naked in that situation, but I think it's something that used to be more common.
FYI, here's an interesting comment that I found on reddit.
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I disagree with this take. The U.S. actually used to be much more religious than it is now, and church attendance was much higher in the days when swimming at the YMCA was all-nude. And while it's clear that most Evangelicals, devout Catholics, etc. frown upon public nudity, I've never seen evidence that those attitudes transfer to a men's locker room. In fact, in my experience religious men are more comfortable being naked in a locker room situation, and not for some perverted reason, but probably because they know who they are. (In fact, several years ago I dealt work-wise with visiting sports teams from a few Evangelical Christian colleges and I don't remember anyone towel-dancing or being afraid to get naked and shower after a game.) I know there are a small number of Muslims who believe that one should not "see or be seen" and avoid locker room nudity but I'm not familiar with any Christian leader who has said that it's wrong for a man to be naked in a men's locker room.
I see your point(s)---and they are valid. But, they actually just sort of substantiate mine...
Why, for instance, aren't there any open showers anymore? It certainly costs plenty more to build out single-stall showers for large groups of men...yet that's what has been happening over the past 20 years. And even most schools and "Y"s have given up nude swimming. I'm not sure the kids demanded it. Same with homes. I grew up in a standard middle-class subdivision home that had two bathrooms, neither of which were attached to the master bedroom. As a result, my dad, my brother, and I shared the "boy's bathroom" (the one with the shower only), and my mom and sister shared the "girl's bathroom" (the one with the shower-tub combo). I saw both my dad and my brother naked nearly every day. Now though, my brother's home has five bathrooms---and a separate bedroom/bathroom for each of his sons. Was it really necessary...or just another luxury that homes just "have to have".
To enhance your point, though, both of my nephews have grown up (to my brother's amazement) to be practitioners of the "towel dance". He says that they've NEVER seen each other naked.
As to your point about mothers...again, valid. BUT...why have they gotten this way? My mother...and the rest of the mothers on my block...didn't have any problem with male nudity. Jeez...my dad walked back and forth from the shower to his room naked...and slept naked. My mother's only concern with that was when my sister got old enough to know what a dick was all about. The boys feelings---if we even had any---didn't matter. I remember when I was first transitioning to junior high school from elementary school...and was concerned that now I'd have to get naked with guys I didn't know. My mother understood my concern, but had no sympathy...that was just the way it was done. She certainly wasn't going to complain to the school about the open showers.
And, yes...our coaches occasionally showered with the boys if it was the last class of the day and the boys were running late, and the coaches had places to be. I don't remember anyone ever complaining about it...nor any sort of "disciplinary actions" being taken against the coaches for doing it. It was a non-event.
I will agree with you that cameras in the gym are a problem---I've seen it myself and am uncomfortable with it, and have said so to the one with the camera. And, yes...I am more careful now but I'm certainly not going to do a towel dance---it's a locker room for gawd's sake.
So the the question remains...why this complete turnaround on (particularly) male nudity? I say it is the intense fear of male homosexuality (female doesn't seem to be as big of an issue) that has been instilled in everyone since the 80s/90s by Evangelical-styles of religion that deem it sinful. It has been a MAJOR cultural change.
Well, I'm 72...and the US was never as OVERTLY religious in my lifetime as it is now. It wasn't proselytized the way it is today. Yes, in the 1950s we all went to church or temple every Sunday (or Friday night), much more than today...but that was the end of it. We didn't talk religion after church, nor in social settings, nor in school, nor in our doctor's offices. Nor did it effect our outlook on anything other than "do unto others"...which was the common denominator in all of the various religions that I was exposed to. Perhaps I lived in a more diverse city than you...but religion in those days was extremely personal---not a "group effort". Seriously, there were just too many different denominations (and not all "Christian"at that) for any one to claim any high ground. And, yes...Billy Graham and Kathryn Kuhlman had TV shows that were well-watched...but it wasn't a topic of continued discussion that way those sorts of things are today.
Currently, I am accosted by religion in my doctors' offices; when I check out in local stores; from my neighbors at HOA discussions; at my front door; and even on the local TV stations (who bleep out or haze out anything to do with "bad words" or nudity). It is now endemic. And, perhaps the biggest bugaboo of their concern is anything sexual---particularly with male homosexuality and nudity, although they seem to equate the two as the same thing. Like it's not all over Tik-Tok and "X" already...and their kids aren't sending nude selfies to their friends.
I've been involved with sports and fitness for most of my life...and hence, I've been in hundreds of locker rooms...both in the Bible Belt and on the Coasts, as well as in Europe. And I have certainly seen the change in both the fear of being seen naked, and the fear of any sort of intimation of "homosexuality" grow over the years. It's gotten so bad that men who grew up using them can't even wear a jock strap anymore for fear of being labeled "gay". It's the same at Catholic colleges, and at the local community gym. The college sports teams may be more comfortable with the nudity aspect (they have to be if they want to play) than the local gym crowd...but the intense fear of having a homo among them is stronger than ever. This was NEVER the way it was...
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