[poll] can sexual orientation change?

[Phil Ayesho]

Oh, I understand now your argument. But masturbation dosnt mean you are sexually attracted to anything. I remember masturbation at 7 years old and I had no idea what sex was about. I just new that playing with my penis felt good. I have even heard from parents that they find their babies humping their cribs. I doubt that these babies are envisioning their favorite pornhub video. So I'm pretty sure that asexuals can masturbate without thinking of another person, as most non asexual do. although asexual are more rare in the population, they may not publicize their orientation due to people like you who question their masturbation habits as a form of sexuality.

Sexuality is defined as the thing that gets you off.

A truly asexual person would never seek orgasm, would not enjoy genital stimulation.


And youngsters masturbating may not have a fully formed concept of sexualized fantasy when they start- but they always DEVELOP one, based upon association if nothing else.

By the age of 14, you can not jerk off and think about NOTHING. If what you're think about is your own hand... and thats the only thing that gets you off, then maybe you are 'solosexual"- but you sure as shit are not asexual.

 

[handcuffsfan4]

Sexuality is defined as the thing that gets you off.

A truly asexual person would never seek orgasm, would not enjoy genital stimulation.


And youngsters masturbating may not have a fully formed concept of sexualized fantasy when they start- but they always DEVELOP one, based upon association if nothing else.

By the age of 14, you can not jerk off and think about NOTHING. If what you're think about is your own hand... and thats the only thing that gets you off, then maybe you are 'solosexual"- but you sure as shit are not asexual.

What is funny is that two a sexuality sites say that asexuals can masturbate. http://www.asexuality.org/home/?q=overview.html
This says that asexuals occasionally masturbate.
http://www.asexualityarchive.com/an-asexuals-guide-to-masturbation/
This one is a page telling asexuals that masturbation dosnt make them less asexual. So I'm pretty sure that asexuals can masturbate and be asexual. It is about a lack of sexuality attraction, not a lack of sexuality drive.

 

[At.your.cervix]

I'm only saying "YES" in that the vast majority of people fall somewhere in the middle of the hetero/homo sexuality spectrum, and as well on the sexual desire intensity spectrum. And along those lines most all of us change over time. Someone predominately heterosexual might move towards some degree of homosexual feelings, and vice-versa. Sometimes these changes are a process of personal maturation and other times they are situational. I'm yet to have any sexual desire for another male, but should I become incarcerated for any length of time, I'm pretty sure that would change. As with all else about human psychologies, we're more fluid than we might think.

 

[palakaorion]

Labels. They will be the undoing of humanity.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

What is funny is that two a sexuality sites say that asexuals can masturbate. http://www.asexuality.org/home/?q=overview.html
This says that asexuals occasionally masturbate.
http://www.asexualityarchive.com/an-asexuals-guide-to-masturbation/
This one is a page telling asexuals that masturbation dosnt make them less asexual. So I'm pretty sure that asexuals can masturbate and be asexual. It is about a lack of sexuality attraction, not a lack of sexuality drive.

horseshit.

People can want to call themselves asexual... but if they are beating off, whatever they are fantasizing in that moment IS SEXUAL.

And really, maybe those calling themselves 'asexual" are actually just misanthropes, or narcissists.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

Labels. They will be the undoing of humanity.

Labels are the definition of humanity.

You can't even think without labeling your thoughts and experiences.

You certainly can't communicate without labels.

Language, itself, is nothing but the labeling of concepts.

 

[handcuffsfan4]

horseshit.

People can want to call themselves asexual... but if they are beating off, whatever they are fantasizing in that moment IS SEXUAL.

And really, maybe those calling themselves 'asexual" are actually just misanthropes, or narcissists.

You can yell "horseshit" all you want, but this is actual evidence disputing your argument. Just because you have no prior knowledge on a subject, dosnt mean you can pull shit out of your ass and call it a day. Asexuality is a sexual orientation, meaning they don't have an orientation, but it dosnt mean they have no sex drive. Sex drive, a need for sexual release and is different from having a gender that you wanna have sex with, Sexual orientation. You are talking about it as though someone who is asexual is having no sex drive, where they may have the drive, yet don't have a gender that they want to express there sexuality with.
What you are doing by name calling a whole sexual identity is ignorant, since you have no idea what your talking about, and also just as hurtful as any gay basher or bigot. My thoughts are that you read up on a subject before you go around tossing your fake knowledge around and spreading bullshit.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

You can yell "horseshit" all you want, but this is actual evidence disputing your argument. Just because you have no prior knowledge on a subject, dosnt mean you can pull shit out of your ass and call it a day. Asexuality is a sexual orientation, meaning they don't have an orientation, but it dosnt mean they have no sex drive. Sex drive, a need for sexual release and is different from having a gender that you wanna have sex with, Sexual orientation. You are talking about it as though someone who is asexual is having no sex drive, where they may have the drive, yet don't have a gender that they want to express there sexuality with.
What you are doing by name calling a whole sexual identity is ignorant, since you have no idea what your talking about, and also just as hurtful as any gay basher or bigot. My thoughts are that you read up on a subject before you go around tossing your fake knowledge around and spreading bullshit.

CONFUSION is not a sexual orientation. Germophobia that makes human contact revolting is NOT a sexual orientation. Being awkward, autistic, or otherwise unable to relate and connect to others in a way that leads to sexual encounters is not a sexual orientation.

And Asexual is not a "sexual orientation" any more than Atheism is a religion.
NOT having a religion is the absence of religion, not a form of religion.
And Not having sexuality is the absence of it...

If you have a sex drive, you are sexual... not Asexual. And what you fantasize about in private, in your own head, defines your sexuality. What you SAY about your desires means nothing. If you have desires, you know what they are, and claiming you don't is pretending.


As to ignorance-
learn to discriminate between conjecture, and actual evidence, or theory. the Vast majority of shit therapists and shrinks believe about the human mind are entirely unsupported by any scientific standard. Why- just 40 years ago they thought being gay was a neurosis caused by an overbearing mother- based upon ZERO experimentation and NO testable theory.
Do not mistake something in vogue for actual knowledge.

"Studies" asking people what they "feel" are NOT evidence of anything other than what they believe... and we live in a culture that forwards the belief that a Man, putting on a dress at 60, can "BE" the equivalent of a person born with a women's body, going thru female puberty, pregnancy, abortion and/or childbirth or being unable to conceive...and raised in a world that treated women a very specific way.

-- That is just pandering to identity politics.
Every Time Bruce Jenner opens his mouth he proves he has ZERO insight into what it is to be a woman.


Look, you can make up any label you want and call yourself by that label and demand others use that label in the way YOU personally define it... and maybe that will catch on. Good luck.

But calling an Anvil a Pool Floaty doesn't make it float, no mater how many people you get to call it that.

Anyone who imagines they are Asexual and cruises a BIG DICK site is LYING to themselves.
Anyone saying they are asexual, and then beating off to some fantasy in their head is lying to themselves.

Claiming you are asexual in such a circumstance is like teenagers pretending they are vampires. Sure... there are some who really do that...
But Its nothing but a cultural affectation of false identity and nothing else.

They aren't vampires.

Pretending doesn't make it so.

 

[malakos]

"Anything's possible."

 

[dards44]

If you're born with brown eyes and on Thursday you want to change to blue eyes how does that work out?

 

[handcuffsfan4]

If you're born with brown eyes and on Thursday you want to change to blue eyes how does that work out?

Contacts hahha

 

[handcuffsfan4]

CONFUSION is not a sexual orientation. Germophobia that makes human contact revolting is NOT a sexual orientation. Being awkward, autistic, or otherwise unable to relate and connect to others in a way that leads to sexual encounters is not a sexual orientation.

And Asexual is not a "sexual orientation" any more than Atheism is a religion.
NOT having a religion is the absence of religion, not a form of religion.
And Not having sexuality is the absence of it...

If you have a sex drive, you are sexual... not Asexual. And what you fantasize about in private, in your own head, defines your sexuality. What you SAY about your desires means nothing. If you have desires, you know what they are, and claiming you don't is pretending.


As to ignorance-
learn to discriminate between conjecture, and actual evidence, or theory. the Vast majority of shit therapists and shrinks believe about the human mind are entirely unsupported by any scientific standard. Why- just 40 years ago they thought being gay was a neurosis caused by an overbearing mother- based upon ZERO experimentation and NO testable theory.
Do not mistake something in vogue for actual knowledge.

"Studies" asking people what they "feel" are NOT evidence of anything other than what they believe... and we live in a culture that forwards the belief that a Man, putting on a dress at 60, can "BE" the equivalent of a person born with a women's body, going thru female puberty, pregnancy, abortion and/or childbirth or being unable to conceive...and raised in a world that treated women a very specific way.

-- That is just pandering to identity politics.
Every Time Bruce Jenner opens his mouth he proves he has ZERO insight into what it is to be a woman.


Look, you can make up any label you want and call yourself by that label and demand others use that label in the way YOU personally define it... and maybe that will catch on. Good luck.

But calling an Anvil a Pool Floaty doesn't make it float, no mater how many people you get to call it that.

Anyone who imagines they are Asexual and cruises a BIG DICK site is LYING to themselves.
Anyone saying they are asexual, and then beating off to some fantasy in their head is lying to themselves.

Claiming you are asexual in such a circumstance is like teenagers pretending they are vampires. Sure... there are some who really do that...
But Its nothing but a cultural affectation of false identity and nothing else.

They aren't vampires.

Pretending doesn't make it so.

Sorry what your saying is that society has it wrong and you have it right, because you did these tests that experts got wrong? Maybe you should learn about psychological theory before you make hasty generalizations.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

Sorry what your saying is that society has it wrong and you have it right, because you did these tests that experts got wrong? Maybe you should learn about psychological theory before you make hasty generalizations.

Sonny... I know more about psychological 'theory' than you likely ever will.

Have you ever watched someone you love get electroconvulsive therapy?
Ever tried to keep someone having a seizure from psychiatric medications from biting off their tongue?
Do you know what tardive dyskinesia is?

So, really, STFU and do some growing up. Read some things CRITICAL of your beliefs, just as a check on your own gullibility.

"Theory" is NOT a word most psychologists are qualified to be bandying about in regards to their untested and inchoate notions about the human psyche.

A Theory only qualifies as one when it makes TESTABLE predictions of observations never before seen.
If the Theory can not tell you exactly what you WILL DISCOVER, then its NOT a theory... its just a hypothesis, or a narrative you made up.


What you are imagining is that a mere NOTION that is currently FASHIONABLE is in some way inherently true.

"gender" has become a meaningless focus of self absorbed idiocy- a particle of politicized agitprop- being used for the purposes of forwarding the political interests of a small group of people.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with reality.
And certainly nothing to do with actual sexuality.

Gender Identity Politics is just a subset of Identity Politics... this modern notion that people can believe whatever the fuck they please about themselves and that EVERYONE is allowed to harbor their own delusions about their own specialness, and entitled to not have to hear how their ideas do not align with reality or with history.

We can discuss whether this political agenda is useful or appropriate to the objectives of the cause...but that is not a discussion about psychology- its about politics and ideology regarding personal freedom and whether your ego ought to trump the collective interests of a community...
But That is NOT any form of "psychology".

And Psychology is really the weakest of 'soft' sciences in that it produces no actual scientific proofs of its postulates.
Really... if you want your notions to be taken seriously... you DON'T want to be invoking the legitimacy of "psychology", because it basically has none.

Psychology is still mostly just witch doctors shaking rattles at spirits only they can see.

I have lived thru 50 years of watching this profession blunder its way thru human suffering with no measurable efficacy.
don't waste your time.

 

[handcuffsfan4]

Sonny... I know more about psychological 'theory' than you likely ever will.

Have you ever watched someone you love get electroconvulsive therapy?
Ever tried to keep someone having a seizure from psychiatric medications from biting off their tongue?
Do you know what tardive dyskinesia is?

So, really, STFU and do some growing up. Read some things CRITICAL of your beliefs, just as a check on your own gullibility.

"Theory" is NOT a word most psychologists are qualified to be bandying about in regards to their untested and inchoate notions about the human psyche.

A Theory only qualifies as one when it makes TESTABLE predictions of observations never before seen.
If the Theory can not tell you exactly what you WILL DISCOVER, then its NOT a theory... its just a hypothesis, or a narrative you made up.


What you are imagining is that a mere NOTION that is currently FASHIONABLE is in some way inherently true.

"gender" has become a meaningless focus of self absorbed idiocy- a particle of politicized agitprop- being used for the purposes of forwarding the political interests of a small group of people.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with reality.
And certainly nothing to do with actual sexuality.

Gender Identity Politics is just a subset of Identity Politics... this modern notion that people can believe whatever the fuck they please about themselves and that EVERYONE is allowed to harbor their own delusions about their own specialness, and entitled to not have to hear how their ideas do not align with reality or with history.

We can discuss whether this political agenda is useful or appropriate to the objectives of the cause...but that is not a discussion about psychology- its about politics and ideology regarding personal freedom and whether your ego ought to trump the collective interests of a community...
But That is NOT any form of "psychology".

And Psychology is really the weakest of 'soft' sciences in that it produces no actual scientific proofs of its postulates.
Really... if you want your notions to be taken seriously... you DON'T want to be invoking the legitimacy of "psychology", because it basically has none.

Psychology is still mostly just witch doctors shaking rattles at spirits only they can see.

I have lived thru 50 years of watching this profession blunder its way thru human suffering with no measurable efficacy.
don't waste your time.

I learned you can't teach an old dog new tricks, especially if they have a fixed mindset like you.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

I don't have a fixed mindset- I have a RATIONAL mindset.
That means my mind is Open --- to Proof.
You see this thing you're using to cruise this site? Yeah, that's the product of rational minds that required proof.
Why don't you cite for me all the wonderful "cures" that work every time that have been created by psychology?

I am 'taught' new things all the time... its just that I have standards new ideas must meet before I swallow them hook line and sinker... and even then, i probably won't swallow the line and the sinker.

What I am, that you are not, is Discerning.



Relativity and Quantum Mechanics are over 100 years old.

The "Newness" of an idea has no bearing on its actual merit.
And the vast majority of 'new' hypotheses forwarded are found to be unsupported.

If you want to rebut an actual argument that uses analogy, example, and evidence, you might want to try something more persuasive than ad hominem.
Calling me old is not an argument that I am not right.

And to think that your opinion is made more correct because you are younger and understand today's world better is just egotism.

By definition, the young are inexperienced. Older people have wisdom- which is to say that they have lived long enough to see that a lot of the Ideas they embraced in their youth were proven, thru living, to be horseshit.

 

[handcuffsfan4]

I don't have a fixed mindset- I have a RATIONAL mindset.
That means my mind is Open --- to Proof.
You see this thing you're using to cruise this site? Yeah, that's the product of rational minds that required proof.
Why don't you cite for me all the wonderful "cures" that work every time that have been created by psychology?

I am 'taught' new things all the time... its just that I have standards new ideas must meet before I swallow them hook line and sinker... and even then, i probably won't swallow the line and the sinker.

What I am, that you are not, is Discerning.



Relativity and Quantum Mechanics are over 100 years old.

The "Newness" of an idea has no bearing on its actual merit.
And the vast majority of 'new' hypotheses forwarded are found to be unsupported.

If you want to rebut an actual argument that uses analogy, example, and evidence, you might want to try something more persuasive than ad hominem.
Calling me old is not an argument that I am not right.

And to think that your opinion is made more correct because you are younger and understand today's world better is just egotism.

By definition, the young are inexperienced. Older people have wisdom- which is to say that they have lived long enough to see that a lot of the Ideas they embraced in their youth were proven, thru living, to be horseshit.

Ugh... you started the ad hominim by calling me "sonny". I have my own dad thank you very much.
It dosnt seem very rational to tell people that what they experience is false even though there are experts who say otherwise. In fact it seems irrational to say that all experts in the field are wrong because some were wrong in the past, this is called generalizing.

 

[985154]

Orientation is just not LGBTQIQ, its much more fluid than that. And a fluid's fluidity can naturally evolve.

 

[Lgnlog]

I think this question is too broad. I’m a gay guy and I can’t imagine ever not being sexually attracted to guys. I think gay to straight is very unlikely to happen. But I think being straight for some people might be different because sometimes people are brainwashed at a young age that they’re only allowed to be straight because that’s tradition and they may live that way and be convinced that they’re straight for a long time. I guess my overall answer is no. Lol

 

[Lgnlog]

This is a horseshit argument.

I really don't know where this mythology began... Nor why folks seem to think it holds any water in regards to reason... But in fact there is very little real evidence to support anyone being BORN with a defined orientation.

There are differences in the brains of gay men... But it is impossible to say if those differences are genetic, developmental, or the result of actual actions and thought patterns.

It is plainly true that men who think of themselves as straight have sex with men and still think they are straight. its true that men have had long, sexually enjoyable relationships with women, then began enjoying sex with men, lost interest in women, and then regained an interest in women later on.

So- sexuality is provably vastly more fluid than you believe. You literally can just CHOOSE to have gay sex. And because your dick is still wired to a pleasure center, you will discover that it can be pleasurable if you don't allow your moral indoctrination to get in the way of pure sensation.



However- that's not what I am really pointing to in calling your argument horseshit.

rather, The notion that orientation being a choice supports an agenda of reparative therapy is utterly false. It's a total non-sequitur.

Reparative therapy is only supported by the notion that homosexuality is inherently "WRONG". - Something that 'ought' to be corrected. - and that is its only reasoned supporting ethos.

Choice, has no place in the argument whatsoever. There are folks out there who CHOOSE to be vegan... And there are NO reparative therapy's offered to try and 'cure' them of this preference.


Gay activism has adopted the narrative of being "BORN THIS WAY" as a means to combat the idea that being Gay is somehow 'wrong' and needs correction... And although that seems to convince a lot of folks... It only does so because those convinced by that argument can not reason.

In point of fact people are BORN lots of WAYS, that ARE deemed 'wrong' and subject to correction. People are born with tails, or with parasitic twins, or with Tay-Sachs disease... and the fact that they are born that way is not seen as any valid argument NOT to correct what is seen as a defect.

So the notion that people are born gay is NOT in any way a refutation of the notion that being gay is a defect.
You can be born with a defect.

And, in fact, if scientists ever discovered a gay "gene" that was the cause of being born that way... Those who feel that homosexuality is wrong would immediately start agitating for a means of genetic screening or correction so that parents could prevent their child from being born gay. That is, an actually effective reparative therapy WILL arise the minute science can identify an actual genetic or developmental cause of being gay.


So, I would caution you against allowing yourself to buy into this idiotic argument- because it does not address the core cause of homophobia.


It is more compelling to argue that, even if it IS a "choice", SO FUCKING WHAT? As a free adult person, whatever you choose to do with the consent of other free adult persons that has no impact on anyone else is your RIGHT. If you can choose to drive a Prius, you can choose to have sex with another fella... And the choices are morally equivalent.

You have a right to choose who you want to have sex with. Period. The refutation of the "Gay is Wrong" mindset that leads to reparative therapies are that you
A- have the right to not have other people's religious beliefs forced upon you. ( gay being wrong is a religious tenet, exclusively )
And
B- have the right to CHOOSE whatever the fuck orientation you please... It's no one else's business.


But seriously... Keep forwarding the notion that folks are born that way... And scientist will keep looking for what causesthat.
And once they know what causes it... Parents will seek to alter or abort conceptions with that causal feature.


( although, I seriously doubt scientists will ever find an actual gay gene - you might be born with more of tendency... But just because some teens are biologically more susceptible to depression and self absorption doesn't really mean they were "born Emo".

Emo is still a set of beliefs and behaviors that they chose.

I know I was born with a sexuality that was pretty wide open. I know exactly what experiences led me to find sex with guys fun and exciting. And I know I came around to appreciating and craving women more for other reasons... And chose to go that way... Without EVER losing my sexual response to cock.

I am living proof that the narrative of BORN THAT WAY is simply not an absolute. Maybe some are. But many are not.

Many CAN and DO choose.

And the right to make that choice for yourself is FUNDAMENTAL to the concept of Liberty.

Just because something may not be from birth doesn’t make it a choice. Those are not the only two options. It’s absurd to call sexual preference a choice. You don’t choose your thoughts or what you’re attracted to and the evidence for that is everywhere. I agree that this point shouldn’t be put up as a defense to homophobia but it’s a valid point anyway.

 

[spaj8987]

I think it's possible to be born in a specific way and if you so choose based on your new behavior to become something else. And honestly i don't see what all the hub bub is with that. There have been countless people over the span of humanity who've thought they were one sexuality only in later years to decide to be a different sexuality.

I would imagine that doesn't happen anywhere near to the level of being born a sexuality but i do think it does and can happen.