The tim k thread (RIP)

[tarheel6]

Key words wanted to get their money and go and you can’t force someone to see their dick unless you force them which he didn’t. In this day and age we need to be careful how we address these matters because there’s actual victims out here and these guys aren’t victims. He got paid then decided he was unfortunately

You are too attached to seeing the porn to realize how unenlightened your comments are -- he was young, he was exploited. There are forms of coercion other than at the point of a gun or the use of physical force.

 

[imperialtopaz]

I would argue that Pumping Muscle gained the popularity it has (had?) because it doesn't sit nicely in either the "this is perfectly acceptable" or the "the is not acceptable at all" categories. In one sense, we're fine with it because they were paid for being on camera and they could have got up and left at any moment. But at the same time, we kind of like the idea that maybe the guy wasn't entirely comfortable all the time.

Do I think Peter pushed the limits on what the guys were comfortable with doing? Yes, of course. Do I think Peter probably crossed the line of what the guys were comfortable doing, including while filming a video? Again, yes of course (probably why Peter never shuts up during some of the videos).

People on here are quick to view it as a black or white situation. I view it as a bit more gray. In US, we prohibit law enforcement from entrapping individuals into committing a crime. The simplest case that people know of regarding entrapment is the idea that a police officer holds a gun to you and forces you to commit a crime or he will kill you or arrest you for some made up crime. But there are other versions of entrapment that is also prohibited. One of the first cases the US Supreme Court (Sorrells v. United States (1932)) considered was whether an individual was entrapped to sell alcohol during prohibition after he had been asked to do so multiple times. How many times must a government agent ask you to commit a crime before it becomes entrapment? The courts have never stated an actual number or developed a bright line test, so who knows.

Do I think Peter held an actual or a proverbial gun to the models and forced them to do the videos? No. However, I do think Peter did more of the asking multiple times or other things to encourage the guys to do what he wanted. For example, let's say Peter agreed to "sponsor" one of these guys for one or more fitness competitions in exchange for doing these videos. On the first video, he agrees to pay the guy $1,000 (I don't know the actual amount he paid) to do the first video (no nude). When the guy wants to do the second video, Peter tells him that he can't afford to pay him $1,000 for him to do the same thing he did in the first video because it is a business. So Peter will only pay him $500 to do the same or he'll pay the $1,000 if the guys agrees to do more. Depending on the guy's situation, he may feel that he has to do more for Peter. Do this enough times and Peter is either getting some amazing stuff that we all love or he doesn't film the guy anymore.

TL;DR: I don't think Peter is 100% innocent but I don't think he is 100% guilty either.

 

[Anime2]

It does seem like an incredible amount of naivety would have to be in play. It is not rocket science to put together that a video camera being pointed at you while naked is not something you can undo. If I was genetically gifted enough to have anybody interested in recording me naked, I would surely want a lot of information about what they were going to do with the footage, and a contract that stipulated where it could go. But I would also be realistic about the probability that pirated copies would get out there (especially if I had a recognizable name, like Zach Reyfus) and trying to keep people from seeing it would be like putting toothpaste back in the tube. These guys grew up in the Internet age and have to be aware where this would go.

I am sure the motive for going forward ranges from financial desperation to greed to blatant narcissism, but I am pretty sure that these guys had at least an idea that footage of their ween would get out there before they dropped their shorts.

Couldn’t agree more, as I said before we live in an age where there’s so many social justice warriors and keyboard warriors who can’t wait to jump at the chance to show they’re such good people when really they should be looking at the facts. These guys put themselves in this situation and again how could they not know.

Even if it was a camera that could film the camera guy needs to be clicking and also telling the talent to hold still take the picture so again how did these guys not know. I already said how did they not question from when the cameraman is asking them to take the bottoms and underwear off that there is a warning to then get to them jerking off smh don’t buy it.

These guys done the shoot got paid then regretted it and there’s nothing wrong with that normal human emotion to want change a decision you’ve made but they can’t blame someone else for a decision they made and wasn’t harmed in the situation

 

[Anime2]

You are too attached to seeing the porn to realize how unenlightened your comments are -- he was young, he was exploited. There are forms of coercion other than at the point of a gun or the use of physical force.

You say he was young like he was 12 years old don’t do that. He was clearly old enough he had more than likely already lost his virginity. In today’s society we like to pretend like teenagers aren’t having sex they are the same way we’re at their age (well my age at least don’t want to assume we’re in our 30’s lol).

How was he exploited sorry I’ve made my case very clear. I’m not being ignorant here believe me if any of the models were put in positions that they didn’t ask for oh I would support in a heart beat. But we can’t just say he was young so that’s it the cameraman is guilty. He wasn’t forced could have left at any time he wasn’t black mailed he was paid and again once he was told to do more than just flex his muscle how did he know what was going on

 

[Anime2]

I would argue that Pumping Muscle gained the popularity it has (had?) because it doesn't sit nicely in either the "this is perfectly acceptable" or the "the is not acceptable at all" categories. In one sense, we're fine with it because they were paid for being on camera and they could have got up and left at any moment. But at the same time, we kind of like the idea that maybe the guy wasn't entirely comfortable all the time.

Do I think Peter pushed the limits on what the guys were comfortable with doing? Yes, of course. Do I think Peter probably crossed the line of what the guys were comfortable doing, including while filming a video? Again, yes of course (probably why Peter never shuts up during some of the videos).

People on here are quick to view it as a black or white situation. I view it as a bit more gray. In US, we prohibit law enforcement from entrapping individuals into committing a crime. The simplest case that people know of regarding entrapment is the idea that a police officer holds a gun to you and forces you to commit a crime or he will kill you or arrest you for some made up crime. But there are other versions of entrapment that is also prohibited. One of the first cases the US Supreme Court (Sorrells v. United States (1932)) considered was whether an individual was entrapped to sell alcohol during prohibition after he had been asked to do so multiple times. How many times must a government agent ask you to commit a crime before it becomes entrapment? The courts have never stated an actual number or developed a bright line test, so who knows.

Do I think Peter held an actual or a proverbial gun to the models and forced them to do the videos? No. However, I do think Peter did more of the asking multiple times or other things to encourage the guys to do what he wanted. For example, let's say Peter agreed to "sponsor" one of these guys for one or more fitness competitions in exchange for doing these videos. On the first video, he agrees to pay the guy $1,000 (I don't know the actual amount he paid) to do the first video (no nude). When the guy wants to do the second video, Peter tells him that he can't afford to pay him $1,000 for him to do the same thing he did in the first video because it is a business. So Peter will only pay him $500 to do the same or he'll pay the $1,000 if the guys agrees to do more. Depending on the guy's situation, he may feel that he has to do more for Peter. Do this enough times and Peter is either getting some amazing stuff that we all love or he doesn't film the guy anymore.

TL;DR: I don't think Peter is 100% innocent but I don't think he is 100% guilty either.

I actual see where you’re coming from and agree with most of what you’re saying. My only issue is your example is strong but at the end of the day it’s a choice he might use money as a way to get models to do more. But it’s up to the model to say yes regardless of the situation it’s a choice your life isn’t on the line. This is the same method gay porn studios get straight guys to shoot gay porn that’s why most straight guys do gay porn because they get paid more than doing straight porn.

Even with him continuously asking the talent can say no. I say this because a friend of mine is a body builder great body. I’ve asked him if he’s had offers he said yes declined them all but he knows people who have done body worshipping etc. All he’s done is a photoshoot even that he was wearing joggers. And he also done a video for my friend who owns a personal trainer and funny enough in that video he’s asked to take his top off he doesn’t want to but in the end he does it and it was to show of his chest did my personal trainer friend exploit my body builder friend... no he wasn’t in any danger if he wanted to he could have continued to say no like he to other people

 

[tarheel6]

You say he was young like he was 12 years old don’t do that. He was clearly old enough he had more than likely already lost his virginity. In today’s society we like to pretend like teenagers aren’t having sex they are the same way we’re at their age (well my age at least don’t want to assume we’re in our 30’s lol).

How was he exploited sorry I’ve made my case very clear. I’m not being ignorant here believe me if any of the models were put in positions that they didn’t ask for oh I would support in a heart beat. But we can’t just say he was young so that’s it the cameraman is guilty. He wasn’t forced could have left at any time he wasn’t black mailed he was paid and again once he was told to do more than just flex his muscle how did he know what was going on

I didn't say he was preteenaged. I said he was young, and he was. Not old enough to buy liquor young. Just out of high aged young. At the age when most kids live away from home for the first time young. The rest of your post is sad in its minimizing of how impressionable young men are, how the lure of money and the lack of worldly experience may contribute to a coercive situation. Suppose an 18 year old shows up with a promise of payment and professional photos, then is told he'll have to get nude to get paid. That's coercive in my view.

 

[dotasco]

So much words so little photos

 

[Anime2]

I didn't say he was preteenaged. I said he was young, and he was. Not old enough to buy liquor young. Just out of high aged young. At the age when most kids live away from home for the first time young. The rest of your post is sad in its minimizing of how impressionable young men are, how the lure of money and the lack of worldly experience may contribute to a coercive situation. Suppose an 18 year old shows up with a promise of payment and professional photos, then is told he'll have to get nude to get paid. That's coercive in my view.

Don’t get me wrong what you’re saying is true believe me I know that men are victims a lot and society just dismisses it regardless of the age. But in this situation I don’t agree because even when you talk about how a young person can become impressionable through lure of money ok fine but once being told you have to get naked for that money how do you not make a decision right im i ok with this or not you can’t put an age on that sort of descion making. You either say ummm no I’m ok with this or you are ok with it

 

[Jake1973]

I would argue that Pumping Muscle gained the popularity it has (had?) because it doesn't sit nicely in either the "this is perfectly acceptable" or the "the is not acceptable at all" categories. In one sense, we're fine with it because they were paid for being on camera and they could have got up and left at any moment. But at the same time, we kind of like the idea that maybe the guy wasn't entirely comfortable all the time.

This part is definitely true. I am not saying the guys reading this thread in particular, but... there's a market. Given that sites like Fraternity X, Broke Straight Guys and Sketchy Sex are popular, the simulation or reality that a guy's boundaries are being pushed, for whatever motive, is a genre with an audience. These don't seem that "produced" or a lot of the more questionable shit Peter (and some of the models) say would be edited out.

People on here are quick to view it as a black or white situation. I view it as a bit more gray.

Same. I have my doubts about it, but it hasn't stopped me from watching them, which I guess says something about my character, but my dick has questionable morals I guess.

... But there are other versions of entrapment that is also prohibited. One of the first cases the US Supreme Court (Sorrells v. United States (1932)) considered was whether an individual was entrapped to sell alcohol during prohibition after he had been asked to do so multiple times. How many times must a government agent ask you to commit a crime before it becomes entrapment? The courts have never stated an actual number or developed a bright line test, so who knows.

This is an interesting angle to the argument. Someone nagging/tempting you to do something repeatedly becomes complicit in your act? But he's not a LEO and they are not breaking a law. Unless they were deep in debt or something I'm not sure what he had to hold over their heads.

I just think that if so many of these models felt wronged after the fact, there would have been a lawsuit, even an unsuccessful one, and that would have generated a news story and his feeble attempts to disguise who the the models are would not have been considered sufficient mitigation. These models (and even Peter) are not influential enough to keep their identities hidden were that to happen, especially since--as I mentioned--he has or had some kind of medical license which can be revoked for unrelated conduct unbecoming.

 

[rrj101]

 

[Ryuusuke]

If I well recall, in one of the videos the cameraman once said that he doesn't approach muscle men/bodybuilders; it's them who approach him. I think he mentioned going to bodybuilding competitions and viven that some bodybuilders know him they spread the news around si dime interested men tried to ser a deal with him.

In the past I've read similar stories about bodybuilders spotting potencial rich sugar daddies and taking the first step to get them to sponsor them for some intimacy in exchange.

 

[Jake1973]

If I well recall, in one of the videos the cameraman once said that he doesn't approach muscle men/bodybuilders; it's them who approach him. I think he mentioned going to bodybuilding competitions and viven that some bodybuilders know him they spread the news around si dime interested men tried to ser a deal with him.

In the past I've read similar stories about bodybuilders spotting potencial rich sugar daddies and taking the first step to get them to sponsor them for some intimacy in exchange.

Peter says a lot of things and I believe about... none of them. But it is a small community and I have seen instances where athletes have publicly claimed their shoot with him among their accomplishments, so clearly feelings about him are mixed.

It's possible that last year there was a commotion started by one or more models complaining that led to a.) no new content in ages and b.) the name changes, which are frankly a joke. Every time he reposts a new model everybody asks what the former name was (plus--thank you to face recognition) you just have to google image search a still and it will find any public post about the original shoot.

 

[Sam Gomez]

Tim k solo perfection
Tim k solo perfection

 

[jon3169]

Peter says a lot of things and I believe about... none of them. But it is a small community and I have seen instances where athletes have publicly claimed their shoot with him among their accomplishments, so clearly feelings about him are mixed.

It's possible that last year there was a commotion started by one or more models complaining that led to a.) no new content in ages and b.) the name changes, which are frankly a joke. Every time he reposts a new model everybody asks what the former name was (plus--thank you to face recognition) you just have to google image search a still and it will find any public post about the original shoot.

This so much, everyone saying well there is no lawsuit and such and such, there does not have to be a lawsuit, the guys might not want it getting out more than it already has. But the fact of everything that has happened to him and his site is evidence that something happened with one of the models. And who knows, maybe word got out around the industry and people are avoiding him and hence no new models.

 

[Jake1973]

This so much, everyone saying well there is no lawsuit and such and such, there does not have to be a lawsuit, the guys might not want it getting out more than it already has. But the fact of everything that has happened to him and his site is evidence that something happened with one of the models. And who knows, maybe word got out around the industry and people are avoiding him and hence no new models.

I guess so... but even that kind of thing you would think would come up in a Google search... every sport and industry has trade blogs, message boards, etc. It is just interesting that it all just went dark.

 

[Anime2]

This part is definitely true. I am not saying the guys reading this thread in particular, but... there's a market. Given that sites like Fraternity X, Broke Straight Guys and Sketchy Sex are popular, the simulation or reality that a guy's boundaries are being pushed, for whatever motive, is a genre with an audience. These don't seem that "produced" or a lot of the more questionable shit Peter (and some of the models) say would be edited out.



Same. I have my doubts about it, but it hasn't stopped me from watching them, which I guess says something about my character, but my dick has questionable morals I guess.



This is an interesting angle to the argument. Someone nagging/tempting you to do something repeatedly becomes complicit in your act? But he's not a LEO and they are not breaking a law. Unless they were deep in debt or something I'm not sure what he had to hold over their heads.

I just think that if so many of these models felt wronged after the fact, there would have been a lawsuit, even an unsuccessful one, and that would have generated a news story and his feeble attempts to disguise who the the models are would not have been considered sufficient mitigation. These models (and even Peter) are not influential enough to keep their identities hidden were that to happen, especially since--as I mentioned--he has or had some kind of medical license which can be revoked for unrelated conduct unbecoming.

Nothing wrong with your character you’re one of the only few honest people that can be honest and say yo I watch this it turns me on. Most guys are parenting it doesn’t while watching it in secret. It’s human nature people don’t want to be judged

 

[3899121]

I wish he would come back too. He'd make a killing especially since people are still fans of his even though it's been ages since he's done anything.

 

[Jake1973]

It's funny... he made his mark by shooting known competitive bodybuilders despite/maybe because of their limits on what they would do. There are no shortage of built, photogenic guys willing to strip for cash (as OF and JFF demonstrates daily) but instead of moving away from guys with something to hide, he seems to have just shut down.

 

[jon3169]

It's funny... he made his mark by shooting known competitive bodybuilders despite/maybe because of their limits on what they would do. There are no shortage of built, photogenic guys willing to strip for cash (as OF and JFF demonstrates daily) but instead of moving away from guys with something to hide, he seems to have just shut down.

the quality of guys did go pretty way down for the newest filmed stuff, that he was dipping into really old content to post. He is cheap, from what he says in videos and what models have said he does not pay well for what he is actually doing with the videos, and if guys are now more aware of what he is actually wanting to do, they are going to expect more, and he was unwilling to pay the price the guys require it seems. You can only go so long saying its private, won't be posted on the web, once he got big, I think around the time of Tim K, was ironically what did him in, it was easier to find what was actually in the videos, any model googling him would see the truth. I have seen his PM pictures here and there for years but never knew what the videos actually contained so never bought any, until i saw Tim k posted somewhere. Got to believe that before Tim k models would think the same thing, just bodybuilding videos, but after PM blew up they know its about getting guys to pose nude and lies about not showing/cutting out full frontal.

 

[Jake1973]

the quality of guys did go pretty way down for the newest filmed stuff, that he was dipping into really old content to post. He is cheap, from what he says in videos and what models have said he does not pay well for what he is actually doing with the videos, and if guys are now more aware of what he is actually wanting to do, they are going to expect more, and he was unwilling to pay the price the guys require it seems. You can only go so long saying its private, won't be posted on the web, once he got big, I think around the time of Tim K, was ironically what did him in, it was easier to find what was actually in the videos, any model googling him would see the truth. I have seen his PM pictures here and there for years but never knew what the videos actually contained so never bought any, until i saw Tim k posted somewhere. Got to believe that before Tim k models would think the same thing, just bodybuilding videos, but after PM blew up they know its about getting guys to pose nude and lies about not showing/cutting out full frontal.

Makes sense. Also with the advent of OF and JFF I think guys who really do want to show some skin realize if they're going to go this route they can control what they post and cut out the middle man.

Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.