US circumcision rates drop to record low of 33%

[B_dxjnorto]

I don't understand the idea of cutting a little baby's penis (except for the obvious religious ones).

The religious thing never was obvious for me. It is quite likely that it was added to punish and control sexuality, as that is a Judeochristian thing. I mean, c'mon? God expects us all to cut off parts of our penises?:

Circumcision A Jewish Inquiry

Or, just as likely, the debate will continue to rage forever.

Well, I hope not, and here's why I don't think so: People don't like being lied to and manipulated. The issue has been hidden. Some people are mad it's even been brought up -- Pandora's box is opened....

 

[BIGBULL29]

Sorry, but I disagree. Abortion is a totally different topic. Religions can be changed, sure it has an impact on the person but as the child grows he or she can choose to accept or reject the parents religion. They may choose a different religion altogether. Schools can be changed. An English speaking parent may choose a French Immersion school for their child. It is realized it is too much of a struggle, the child falls behind. The child is switched to an English speaking school - perhaps a year behind or maybe not. Nuances of the style of our upbringing are not decisions that parents make.

My answer is not silly and you still have not answered my question. Give me true examples of irreversible decisions parents make for which they can never choose a course of action in which the consequences of that decision cannot be altered by future actions.

Also contributing to the significance of this social issue is the fact that it is a human rights issue. This alone elevates the importance of this decision.

Abortion is something that you would think would be staunchly supported by anti-circ folks, considering their stance on human rights, particularly those of infants. But alas they believe that abortion, an action infinitely darker than RIC, is not one of those rights. An existing child is not even given the right to live - talk about a most irreversible decision! In their logic, a mother who chooses to remove her infant son's foreskin is a mutilator and a human rights violator. Well, following that same logic, she is also a murderer if she aborts her baby for non-life- threatening reasons.

I agree that RIC may not be ideal, but a lot of these countries where RIC is taboo think abortion is fine and dandy. Their idea: Don't you dare cut off a baby's boy foreskin, should you choose not to kill him. That logic is sick and twisted. Before they start worrying about baby boys' foreskins, they better start worrying about them having a right to live so they can even have a foreskin.

More irreversible decisions? You must not think environment has no impact on how we turn out as adults. How are we are raised by our parents as child has lasting effects on as adults. We don't suddently rid ourselves of many things we're raised with, taught as well as experience as children. We learn to cope and make adjustments if those "irreversible" decisions made were not positive. They're always with us.

 

[Ururu18]

Good I'm glad! Circumcision is painful and pointless. I mean some people says it looks nicer but they should appreciate a penis for the way it is regardless of the amount of skin on it.

 

[Mastur]

Abortion is something that you would think would be staunchly supported by anti-circ folks, considering their stance on human rights, particularly those of infants. But alas they believe that abortion, an action infinitely darker than RIC, is not one of those rights. An existing child is not even given the right to live - talk about a most irreversible decision! In their logic, a mother who chooses to remove her infant son's foreskin is a mutilator and a human rights violator. Well, following that same logic, she is also a murderer if she aborts her baby for non-life- threatening reasons.

Did you mean to say: Abortion is something one would think that anti-circ folks would strongly lobby and protest against...?

I would like to suggest that you read and then re-read your comments before posting them. You are confusing people. No use in being so opinionated and vocal but unable to relay those thoughts in a sensical manner.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Record drops in US circumcision...
Much to the joys of the overtly self righteous or obsessive zealots, and to the dismay of absolutely nobody who knows there's a hell of a lot more to life than whether or not your dick has foreskin or not.

 

[Snozzle]

Abortion is something that you would think would be staunchly supported [opposed?] by anti-circ folks, considering their stance on human rights, particularly those of infants.

And many do.

But alas they believe that abortion, an action infinitely darker than RIC, is not one of those rights. An existing child is not even given the right to live - talk about a most irreversible decision! In their logic, a mother who chooses to remove her infant son's foreskin is a mutilator and a human rights violator. Well, following that same logic, she is also a murderer if she aborts her baby for non-life- threatening reasons.

I get tired of this simplistic talk as if there was just one thing called "abortion" no matter whether it is at the beginning or the end of pregnancy. Hardly anybody opposes "abortion" at the beginning of pregnancy (late contraception), such as IUDs and the morning-after pill. Hardly anyone supports "abortion" at the onset of labour (infanticide). The only real fight is how far into pregnancy do you accept "abortion"? - and that's one you can argue till the cows come home. It has no connection to circumcision in any case, because it involves a balance between the rights of the mother to control of her own body and those of the zygote/embryo/foetus/baby. (Pregnancy is a process, not a state.) Only one person owns the baby's penis.

 

[darkbond007]

In my opinion, I'd rather be circumcised as an infant than be raised by nutcase parents (no, my parents were nutcases).

Parents make a zillion irreversible decisions for their children. Circumcision is just one in a galaxy.

I try and tell them this all the time. But due to their obsessions with a foreskin they thinkg everyone should share their plight.

 

[Hoss]

my brother posted this article on facebook and i thought it would make for interesting discussion here.... get some coffee, and discuss!

US circumcision rates drop to record low of 33%

Gee that's too bad. Circumcision is fantastic and makes putting on condoms easier which spreads less disease and the big benefit is that if you have sex with someone else you don't get their pubic hairs caught under a foreskin.

 

[B_dxjnorto]

Gee that's too bad. Circumcision is fantastic and makes putting on condoms easier which spreads less disease and the big benefit is that if you have sex with someone else you don't get their pubic hairs caught under a foreskin.

Don't care what anyone does with their adult dicks. Babies don't have pubic hair and they don't have sex.

Glad the freaks are getting freakier. Makes it easier to tell them from the regular folks.

RIC is going to be a huge public relations nightmare for the U.S. medical industry as more and more men ask themselves, what are they doing with our dicks?

 

[Hoss]

Don't care what anyone does with their adult dicks. Babies don't have pubic hair and they don't have sex.

Glad the freaks are getting freakier. Makes it easier to tell them from the regular folks.

RIC is going to be a huge public relations nightmare for the U.S. medical industry as more and more men ask themselves, what are they doing with our dicks?

yeah well if you read my other post I said it should be done at the start of puberty not at birth so it applies.

 

[B_dxjnorto]

yeah well if you read my other post I said it should be done at the start of puberty not at birth so it applies.

Good reason to make the age of consent for circumcision the same as the age to buy cigarettes. Some people will still make poor decisions, but the longer you can delay the decision point, the fewer people will.

 

[Hoss]

Good reason to make the age of consent for circumcision the same as the age to buy cigarettes. Some people will still make poor decisions, but the longer you can delay the decision point, the fewer people will.

I didn't get cut until I bought cigarettes back then we could get them from vending machines:biggrin1:. I still say it should get done at puberty then the boy can appreciate the fresh new feel and look:smile:.

 

[B_dxjnorto]

Cleanup on aisle 13. Get circumcised again. Fresh and new just never gets old when it comes to genital cutting.

Circumcision advocate just spooged thinking about his favorite fetish.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Cleanup on aisle 13. Get circumcised again. Fresh and new just never gets old when it comes to genital cutting.

Circumcision advocate just spooged thinking about his favorite fetish.

As if your attitudes in this thread aren't fueled by an overall obsession/fetish of your own disguised as some kind of pseudo-moralistic nonsense. Ignoring the fact that the reason why anyone here is uncircumcised is because the choice was made available to your parents to do it or not. Yet you have no problem denying that same choice or trying to make others feel guilty about their own if they don't align with your obsessions. What's that gooey stuff on the floor? Oh, it's your seed too. Then again, you've whacked off in every circ thread on this board every time someone cheers about their foreskin.

You're such a hypocrite.

 

[darkbond007]

Don't care what anyone does with their adult dicks.

That's the biggest lie you have ever told on these boards. You're in EVERY adult circumcision thread trying to convince guys not to have it done...no matter their reasoning.

 

[helgaleena]

Allow me to quote some holy scripture:
from


The Loose Canon, Church of FSM, Book of Piraticus Chapter 10
1 And all men shall be circumcised after the age of 18, with out anesthesia. 2 Those that have been circumcised already must snip a little more off. 3 With rusty scissors. 4 Dipped in lemon juice. 5 After heating it so it’s red hot. 6 Nah, that would be a little weird. 7 I’m just screwing with you. 8 I have a sense of humor. 9 You can see this for yourself if you see my drastic attempts to change evidence to make the universe look older than it is.

| Official Site of The Loose Canon

 

[Sapien]

Abortion is something that you would think would be staunchly supported by anti-circ folks, considering their stance on human rights, particularly those of infants. But alas they believe that abortion, an action infinitely darker than RIC, is not one of those rights. An existing child is not even given the right to live - talk about a most irreversible decision! In their logic, a mother who chooses to remove her infant son's foreskin is a mutilator and a human rights violator. Well, following that same logic, she is also a murderer if she aborts her baby for non-life- threatening reasons.

I agree that RIC may not be ideal, but a lot of these countries where RIC is taboo think abortion is fine and dandy. Their idea: Don't you dare cut off a baby's boy foreskin, should you choose not to kill him. That logic is sick and twisted. Before they start worrying about baby boys' foreskins, they better start worrying about them having a right to live so they can even have a foreskin.

More irreversible decisions? You must not think environment has no impact on how we turn out as adults. How are we are raised by our parents as child has lasting effects on as adults. We don't suddenly rid ourselves of many things we're raised with, taught as well as experience as children. We learn to cope and make adjustments if those "irreversible" decisions made were not positive. They're always with us.

I now realize that I did not properly think out my approach to your posts and I was not effective in getting my point across. I apologized for this. I will try again a different way - but I really do not want to mix up the abortion issue in this - thus will ignore.

First, I understood and still understand your point perfectly. Yes there are many decisions that are made every day that shape the lives, personalities and behaviours of our children. Collectively, these decisions are of great importance and influence on the child.

My point is that individually, most of the decisions are not that important. The example I used with the English parents sending their child to a French Immersion school for instance would be an example of a very significant decision in shaping the future of the child. I used the example that it may not turn out well - but it perhaps it would. This child could become a linguist it this decision could open many doors in the future. However, even if this bright child wasn't provided this option most likely some other opportunity would present itself for the child to succeed at. The decision either way is not harmful to the child and there is usually opportunities to amend past decisions. Yes, some consequences will remain but overall the significance of individual failings, misadventures or whatever are not that significant.

What I am saying is that one decision made at birth is a very significant decision because once it is done there is no going back, there is no opportunity to amend this past decision. Also, there is potential significant harm to the child with this decision.

Humans are the most sexual beings on the planet. Human sexuality is very complicated and is a very important part of our lives. It would not be much of a stretch to say that our entire economy is linked to human sexuality. The penis is obviously a very important part of male sexuality. Perhaps there are some "informed" men that do not mind that they were circumcised and it has not had a adverse affect on them psychologically or physically.

However, there are a significant number of men that say otherwise. The circumcision scar is not just a physical scar on the penis but a scar on the male psyche. Neither will go away. No one can predict who will be adversely affected either physically or psychologically or both. Circumcision harms people.

In regards to your comments about you rather being circumcised than be raised by an alcoholic or in a bizarre religion. I know a few young restorers that have had unbelievably horrible upbringings. Out of respect for their confidentiality I cannot provide details but as adults these intelligent individuals have managed to come to terms with the trials and tribulations of their horrible lives as children. Yes those experiences have shaped them and will be with them for ever, but cope and adapt they have and do. Their current struggle/focus is coming to terms with the fact they were circumcised as infants. It appears that this is a tougher hurdle for them and many others. I think this is because of the importance of our human sexuality and we should not underestimate it.

I see new young people joining restoration websites everyday looking for help and encouragement - this is provided. It is often predictable to see them go through various stages - first it is excitement, optimism that they are going finally be able to experience life with a foreskin. However, it is not an easy journey. It is very typical to see them go through periods of dismay, anger, rage. Why are we doing this to our children?

One reason is the very status quo stance that you are currently preaching. Belittling the circumcision decision by calling it insignificant in the scheme of life is very, very wrong. This apathy is why circumcision is still widespread as it is - though thankfully the tide is turning.

That fact that circumcision rates is declining is another reason to escalate the importance of this decision. Circumcised children will soon be the minority. The psychological trauma for those that have been circumcised will increase significantly.

Below are some links to Youtube postings of young people and their views on their circumcision. A couple of them are very young - voices have not even changed yet. These are the voices of our children, the youth of today. I understand if you don't want to listen to me, but please LISTEN TO THEM!

The first one is very creative using the Joker character to very dramatically illustrate his point. The next 2 are young children just entering puberty expressing their viewpoints. The last one is a young adult expressing his view.The I don't see how anyone could watch these videos and then say that the circumcision decision is not significant.

Please watch and understand. I would really appreciate your feedback (and the feedback of others) after reading this post and reviewing the videos. I really think it is important that we listen to what today's youth are telling us on this subject.

[FONT=&quot] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY258kVzGdE&feature=related[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX0D039kWvs&feature=PlayList&p=269CFC0B399FB8CE&index=0&playnext=1[/FONT]

 

[deleted15807]

^ Oh my gawd can someone please call the orderlies?? And bring the demerol STAT!!

 

[B_dxjnorto]

Thanks for those Sapien. The kid in the second one is amazingly articulate. He looks no older than fourteen or fifteen. He does a good job of elucidating the absurdity of the biblical circumcision fable. Well developed sense of humor too.

I think the fourth guy is someone who is sick of being put down for being intact in a cutting culture. Sick of fables and superstitions. Kind of incredulous like me when sargon, vinylboy, darkbond, SirConcis, Sirconcised, and that ilk speak their pathetic convoluted rationalizations.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Kind of incredulous like me when sargon, vinylboy, darkbond, SirConcis, Sirconcised, and that ilk speak their pathetic convoluted rationalizations.

Convoluted what? For allowing parents to have the same choice YOUR parents had when they gave birth to you? Like I said before and I'll say it again... you're a hypocrite. Your ideologies behind maintaining foreskin and why parents shouldn't put their infant boys under the knife are IRRELEVANT because you're not the one bringing these kids into this world.

At the end of the day, you were either cut or left uncircumcised as a child because your PARENTS chose to do what they thought was best for their baby. Period. F**k what you think about others because it ain't your kid. The beliefs and opinions of an infant are also irrelevant because parents are 100% responsible for their offspring till they are of legal age. Double period. If they want to leave them uncut, then more power to them. If they want to circumcise their baby boy for whatever reason then so be it with absolutely no scrutiny, judgement or banter from you. So mind your f***in' business.

However, as long as you know and are content with being a hypocrite for making fun of others for supposed "obsessive behavior", knowing that you take part in every single circumcision thread on this board tenfold and shoot your load all over the place when people take your side, then so be it. Just let it be known that most people usually consider the opinions spouted from hypocrites amounting to a pile of shit. Seriously, I couldn't call you a hypocrite enough. The audacity you have to judge ANYONE on threads like this. Check your own actions, son.

For your own sanity, I say to everyone here with a brain to understand what I just wrote to leave dxjnorto and the rest of these obsessive fools behind on this and all other circumcision threads to drool over shit they have no control over.