Vote to end Routine Infant Circumcision

[Hoss]

You are all sick. It is too bad. It is not surgery.
It doesn't hurt anymore. I have never heard anyone who is circumcised complaining that he was. Too bad that you belong to the Tea Party and demand going back to the 19th century and tell every one how to live like slaves. 95% of all males in the USA are circumcised. We need it, we want it, we like it. It is the Fourth of July 2013.

No the people are not sick. People are aware it is not needed. That is quite healthy thinking.

It may still pain at the start. Years later it may have residual pain. The jury is mixed.

Way to go making this a Tea Party issue

Who is the "WE" you speak about? You speak for yourself you can't say what others want.

95%? Really? 95% are circumcised in the US? No, not even close. It's down to 54.5 in 2012....the feds have tracked this since 1993.
The peak year was 1999 with 62.7%. With these figures and older people leaving life, the numbers are well below 95%.

 

[D_Miranda_Wrights]

I'm not even going to reply to jonboy. Hoss is right, that post is concentrated crazy.

I was at a bris the other day and before it was done, the grandmother of the baby said that the mohel took the baby and the parents into a side room at the temple to talk to them for a few minutes and go over a few last things and also put a numbing cream on the baby. She was explaining this because the baby's mother was a nervous wreck because she didn't want to watch the circumcision. It was over in no time--the rabbi led some prayers, the grandfather and father said some things and it was done and we were off to eat. The baby cried more being held before he was cut. He didn't make a peep while it was done or after it was done. So one more joined the cut club this week.

1. Why are you taking a single anecdote for your evidence? That's not to say that circumcision is overwhelmingly painful for infants or anything. It's just that I don't understand why you'd use such narrow, limited evidence when there's plenty of research on anesthesia and infant pain response.

2. Why do you think circumcision is ethical? It's hardly like "it hurts" is the main argument against RIC.

3. Talking about a newborn infant "joining the cut club" is really kind of creepy-sounding.

 

[conntom]

I'm all for circumcision.

You may not need it in a more civilized and clean world where we have showers and access to soap but I kinda prefer the easier maintenance.

 

[Uncutsouthernboy]

I'm all for circumcision.

You may not need it in a more civilized and clean world where we have showers and access to soap but I kinda prefer the easier maintenance.

How is it easier to maintain a circumcised penis than an uncircumcised one? The maintainence is the same.

 

[Chaz_Conner]

Im glad my parents had me circumcised. Im not "tortured" by the experience, or do I even remember it. Im tired of this stupid thread popping up all the time. You don't like circumcisions, don't have one performed on your next of kin. Stay out of other peoples business... problem solved.

 

[jonboy53]

Chaz Conner. Right on. These people are nuts. Anyone who can be circumcised may have it done. If the 1% anticircs say no, let them keep their foreskin. As for the others we are the 95% cut. We like it.

 

[conntom]

How is it easier to maintain a circumcised penis than an uncircumcised one? The maintainence is the same.

Well, my understanding is that it is easier to carry "stuff" in the foreskin that may more easily allow disease or germs to spread. Circumcision treated penises wash off more readily and have less areas to hold the bad stuff but please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[colgan1999]

routine? since when?

 

[mistabobdobalina]

Well, my understanding is that it is easier to carry "stuff" in the foreskin that may more easily allow disease or germs to spread. Circumcision treated penises wash off more readily and have less areas to hold the bad stuff but please correct me if I am wrong.

It's a bit like suggesting that you need to shave your ass in order to keep it clean because hair will trap things more than smooth skin. Just because one is easier than the other doesn't mean that either one is difficult.

A cut cock may very well be easier to clean than an uncut one, but that doesn't mean that cleaning an uncut one is in any way difficult (it's not).

 

[mistabobdobalina]

Chaz Conner. Right on. These people are nuts. Anyone who can be circumcised may have it done. If the 1% anticircs say no, let them keep their foreskin. As for the others we are the 95% cut. We like it.

Posts like this make one wonder why even bother having a discussion on the forums at all.

 

[prepstudinsc]

I'm not even going to reply to jonboy. Hoss is right, that post is concentrated crazy.



1. Why are you taking a single anecdote for your evidence? That's not to say that circumcision is overwhelmingly painful for infants or anything. It's just that I don't understand why you'd use such narrow, limited evidence when there's plenty of research on anesthesia and infant pain response.

I've been to plenty of of these. The babies don't cry. The mohels generally use some sort of pain reliever cream. I can't speak to doctors in hospitals. The mohels that I know are all doctors and they do this as general procedure.

Personally, I don't remember my circumcision, and it hasn't caused me hate towards my parents. I don't know why the anti-circumcision people have such hatred towards all of us who are cut or who think it's ok for it to be done.

 

[gymfresh]

I don't know why the anti-circumcision people have such hatred towards all of us who are cut

Project much? I've been on LPSG for years and have never seen anyone "hate" anyone else for being circumcised. It's even a weird suggestion.

And again, the majority of the guys who actively oppose circumcision are themselves circumcised -- mostly, but not exclusively, in infancy or childhood.

 

[ActionBuddy]

True!

 

[D_Miranda_Wrights]

I've been to plenty of of these. The babies don't cry. The mohels generally use some sort of pain reliever cream. I can't speak to doctors in hospitals. The mohels that I know are all doctors and they do this as general procedure.

It's better to use scientific studies that look at physiological response (like cortisol levels and breathing rates) under local and generalized anesthesia. They're more objective, less anecdotal, and more complete. Before we did these studies, we actually performed circumcisions on infants with no anesthesia because they didn't look upset. Turns out that their bodies were actually in systemic shock. We didn't really figure that out until like 1990 because of anecdotal observation.

You're right that infant circumcision is relatively low-pain in most cases thanks to anesthesia. Of course, "relatively low-pain" is still a dumb amount of pain if infant circumcision is wrong. And it is, but I don't think pain response is a significant reason why.

Personally, I don't remember my circumcision, and it hasn't caused me hate towards my parents. I don't know why the anti-circumcision people have such hatred towards all of us who are cut or who think it's ok for it to be done.

Hi. Apparently we haven't met. I'm Young Native. I'm against infant circumcision. I don't hate you or your parents. I mean, I don't know your parents, but I'm sure they love you and wish the best for you. I also love my parents, and if they'd had me circumcised, I'd still love them. That doesn't mean I'd have been happy with their decision, or that the decision would have been right. Good people with good intentions can be wrong.

Now that we've cleared that up, I hope we can talk logically about infant circumcision, instead of "circumcision [supporters/opponents] are jerks!" Because, even if they all were, it's the logic of the arguments that matters.

Anyway, let's get down to the logic here, which is where I think defending infant circumcision falls apart. Here's a few questions for you: Why don't you think circumcision should be the individual's choice? Do you not think reasonable people have different personal preferences on this issue? If you do, what makes routine infant circumcision a reasonable practice?

 

[Trevor]

never going to happen, to rooted in culture and religion, get over it for pete's sake

It will happen and probably fairly soon. With Americans abandoning religion in droves the days of routine infant circumcision are surely numbered.

Americans abandoning religion as number of non-believers climbs to 15 per cent - Telegraph

 

[185248]

It will happen and probably fairly soon. With Americans abandoning religion in droves the days of routine infant circumcision are surely numbered.

Americans abandoning religion as number of non-believers climbs to 15 per cent - Telegraph

So are the 15% and growing, tired of having restrictions placed upon them by others and prefer to go their own way because they prefer not to have others interfere with what they believe? Or does the 15% and growing begin to form their own group and begin to restrict and interfere in what others believe.

Sounds like the same thing to me except in reverse.

 

[821746]

I'm so glad I wasn't circumcised. Circumcision ought to be illegal.

 

[Snozzle]

So are the 15% and growing, tired of having restrictions placed upon them by others and prefer to go their own way because they prefer not to have others interfere with what they believe? Or does the 15% and growing begin to form their own group and begin to restrict and interfere in what others believe.

Sounds like the same thing to me except in reverse.

Leaving somebody's genitals alone is not the reverse of cutting part off. It's the default condition.

Letting adults decide how much of their own genitals to keep (by protecting them from having any cut off until they ARE adults) is not the reverse of letting adults cut part off other people's genitals. It should be the default position.

If you are a libertarian, you believe in freedom for all people from interference with their lives, which includes freedom from having (normal, healthy, functional, non-renewing, of course) parts cut off their bodies before they have any say in the matter.

If you don't get that, just switch the sexes, and don't get bogged down in details. It's rightly illegal to cut ANY part (such as the clitoral prepuce) off a girl, or the prepuce of a non-consenting man. So why is it legal to cut the prepuce off a baby, who will grow up to be a man who never consented?

 

[Snozzle]

Chaz Conner. Right on. These people are nuts. Anyone who can be circumcised may have it done. If the 1% anticircs say no, let them keep their foreskin. As for the others we are the 95% cut. We like it.

You can only speak for yourself. Many circumcised men hate it. If even only one does, wasn't it wrong to do it to him? And looking at a baby, how can anyone tell what he will want when he grows up?

 

[reuben36]

Please do not end circumcision !!