Circumcision scar?

[baseball99]

How about arguing logic with you? I hear a lot of emotion, I don't hear much logic or rationalism. I keep hoping for some. I get logica and persuasion and information from most doctors -- are you even an MD?

I appreciate your use of scare words like "penile cancer" -- what's the rate of penile cancer in the U-S? I've read 1%, I've read 2%...which do you prefer? It's basically a non-problem.

I enjoy your repeated references to non-named studies to support your arguments. A few citations would be helpful, especially if you're hoping to convince people of your counter-logical point of view.

And so forth...and so on.

no emotion, in fact the less people that are circumcised the more money i will make.....id rather make 10,000 from adult complications than 100 from circumcising a child. 1-2%, ive seen up to 5%.....you're right it is minor but i wouldnt want to be in that 1-2% since treatment usually leads to amputation.

my point here was not to cause a flame war......if people dont want to get cut, fine.....it really doesnt matter to me, but i dont think people should be on here posting that they are mamed and that there are no potential consequences to being uncircumcised

 

[novice_btm]

Maybe they didn't want you to know that your father was actually a raccoon.

Pecker!! Your posts should come with a warning. I just had coffee come out of my nose , because of you. :tongue:

I'm not weighing in on the whole med debate, but I have to say, while I'm cut, I've never registered it as a "scar" (mine doesn't look like a scar), or that I'm "mutilated", etc. I do have to say that when asked, I typically answer, "I'm 'trimmed'. It looks like they couldn't decide so just took a little off of the top." :biggrin1: I still have SOME foreskin, but I'm not fully "hooded", so its confusing, and I get asked a lot.

 

[AMikkell]

I never thought it as a scar until I read this post. I thought it was normal, that's how they all looked. Then I was told that I was circumcised, and told what it was, but never really thought about it. I can't imagine it being anyway other than the way it is now.

 

[chico8]

my point here was not to cause a flame war......if people dont want to get cut, fine.....it really doesnt matter to me, but i dont think people should be on here posting that they are mamed and that there are no potential consequences to being uncircumcised

I was maimed and up to 5% of all infant circumcisions result in complications. Complications that most guys won't realize until they reach adulthood. I was one of those and do everything I can to make people aware that circumcision is a dangerous and unnecessary practice especially in this age of MRSA.

Penile Cancer is almost exclusively found in older males and affects cut as well as intact men, the difference has no statistical value. A lot of hoopla has been generated about STDs but there's no definitive research proving a connection between intact men and a greater chance of contracting one.

Also, phimosis is easily treated by manual stretching, of course, here in America, the greedy docs refuse to admit that anything done outside of their offices has any value.

You obviously have a deeply seated aversion to natural dicks, fine, keep it to yourself instead of spreading half truths and lies. Too many men and women suffer due to this barbaric practice

 

[baseball99]

I was maimed and up to 5% of all infant circumcisions result in complications. Complications that most guys won't realize until they reach adulthood. I was one of those and do everything I can to make people aware that circumcision is a dangerous and unnecessary practice especially in this age of MRSA.

Penile Cancer is almost exclusively found in older males and affects cut as well as intact men, the difference has no statistical value. A lot of hoopla has been generated about STDs but there's no definitive research proving a connection between intact men and a greater chance of contracting one.

Also, phimosis is easily treated by manual stretching, of course, here in America, the greedy docs refuse to admit that anything done outside of their offices has any value.

You obviously have a deeply seated aversion to natural dicks, fine, keep it to yourself instead of spreading half truths and lies. Too many men and women suffer due to this barbaric practice

i already said i was done arguing this topic.....but 1.) circumcision and MRSA would be the last thing i would worry about.....and if you knew alot about it you would realize MRSA is treatable and other infections are worse. 2.) penile cancer is found mostly in older males, but whatever sources you used that said there is no statistical difference is blatantly wrong, thats like saying there is no statistical difference between people who get lung cancer that smoke and dont 3.) there is no definitive research but there is valid research.....theres also no definitive research about how aspirin effects the body, how many medications work but the evidence is valid......look up sources in PUBMED. 4.) Phimosis for the most part is not easily treated with manual stretching bc many that present with phimosis present with balantitis or severe UTIs that need to have any source of infection removed 5.) if manual stretching worked, dont you think a doctor would rather have a guy come in for stretching over 2 years than a one time circumcision? 6.) you obviously cant read bc i have repeatedly said its a persons choice and i brought it up because people are spreading false information about being uncircumcised. 7.) my "half truths and lies" are based on education and research not personal opinion.....my opinions came from the research. again, if you have even read my other posts i have said before med school i was against having my sons circumcised and after, seeing what i have seen, there is no way i wouldnt have them circumcised.....this argument reminds me of the type of arguments people form for trying to link vaccinations to autism.....

 

[chico8]

i already said i was done arguing this topic.....but 1.) circumcision and MRSA would be the last thing i would worry about.....and if you knew alot about it you would realize MRSA is treatable and other infections are worse. 2.) penile cancer is found mostly in older males, but whatever sources you used that said there is no statistical difference is blatantly wrong, thats like saying there is no statistical difference between people who get lung cancer that smoke and dont 3.) there is no definitive research but there is valid research.....theres also no definitive research about how aspirin effects the body, how many medications work but the evidence is valid......look up sources in PUBMED. 4.) Phimosis for the most part is not easily treated with manual stretching bc many that present with phimosis present with balantitis or severe UTIs that need to have any source of infection removed 5.) if manual stretching worked, dont you think a doctor would rather have a guy come in for stretching over 2 years than a one time circumcision? 6.) you obviously cant read bc i have repeatedly said its a persons choice and i brought it up because people are spreading false information about being uncircumcised. 7.) my "half truths and lies" are based on education and research not personal opinion.....my opinions came from the research. again, if you have even read my other posts i have said before med school i was against having my sons circumcised and after, seeing what i have seen, there is no way i wouldnt have them circumcised.....this argument reminds me of the type of arguments people form for trying to link vaccinations to autism.....

MRSA is not easily treated especially if not caugt in time. If it isn't, there's a good chance that the entire groin will be affected. Not a risk I'd be willing to take in this day and age.

The statistical difference is so small that it makes no difference especially when looking at studies done around the world. If you only believe in looking at American studies, you might find enough justification but once again, I'd rather have a lifetime of pleasure and a few years of pain rather than a lifetime of suffering through circumcision.

Phimosis in Europe is almost always treated through non-surgical means. Does that mean Europeans are stupid? I doubt it, what it indicates to me is the entrenched belief in American medicine that the only way to treat phimosis is through surgery. Ignorance and greed continue to drive American medicine.

There are too many myths surrounding the "supposed benefits" of circumcision. Those benefits are virtually non-existent and once again perpetuated out of ignorance and superstition. You obviously have chosen to only believe the literature that agrees with what you supposedly "learned" in med school

I feel sorry that you have chosen to mutilate your sons, I hope that before long, RIC will go the way of female genital mutilation. Equal rights regarding genital integrity should be applied across the board but as long as people like you continue to blather on about your dedicated research on the subject, it will be an uphill battle.

 

[soullessfire]

I have to agree with the uncut folks. I'm Irish born, so circumcision isn't done unless there's a physical problem with the foreskin. I love my foreskin... I don't need lotion to jack off, and there are several fun things that I can do that cut guys can't :biggrin1:

I have to admit, I think it's criminal... If I wasn't gay and had a son, then no force on earth except for physical problems would make me sign that consent form. If the kid wants one when he gets older, that's fine, after all it's his body, but that would be his choice.

 

[baseball99]

MRSA is not easily treated especially if not caugt in time. If it isn't, there's a good chance that the entire groin will be affected. Not a risk I'd be willing to take in this day and age.

The statistical difference is so small that it makes no difference especially when looking at studies done around the world. If you only believe in looking at American studies, you might find enough justification but once again, I'd rather have a lifetime of pleasure and a few years of pain rather than a lifetime of suffering through circumcision.

Phimosis in Europe is almost always treated through non-surgical means. Does that mean Europeans are stupid? I doubt it, what it indicates to me is the entrenched belief in American medicine that the only way to treat phimosis is through surgery. Ignorance and greed continue to drive American medicine.

There are too many myths surrounding the "supposed benefits" of circumcision. Those benefits are virtually non-existent and once again perpetuated out of ignorance and superstition. You obviously have chosen to only believe the literature that agrees with what you supposedly "learned" in med school

I feel sorry that you have chosen to mutilate your sons, I hope that before long, RIC will go the way of female genital mutilation. Equal rights regarding genital integrity should be applied across the board but as long as people like you continue to blather on about your dedicated research on the subject, it will be an uphill battle.

MRSA is easily treated.....especially in otherwise healthy individuals.....now if we were talking about vancomycin resistant than yes i would agree with you, but MRSA is extemely prevalent and easily treated.....studies around the world, what are you talking about? for one moment read a pathology book, most cases of penile cancer are found in uncircumcised men.......most breast cancer is found in women, most lung cancer is found in smokers, most fibrodysplasia of renal arteries is found in young women, most UTIs are found in women, most testicular cancer is found in men......whoa why did i add that last one, well there are androgen insensitive males that deveop phenotypically into females, but they are still XY even tho they believe they are female and their undescended testicles are more likely to turn cancerous. its fine you have an opinion different from mine.....i guess i am choosing to mutilate my sons. im also choosing to expose them to risks of vaccinations, my gosh, i might even give my child tylenol when they have a fever and risk sloughing off their glomerular membranes and causing renal failure.....in fact i might go nuts and even hug my kids after work after seeing kids with strep throat all day and risk giving them scarlet fever or post-streptococcal nephritis.....also i may even give my children antibiotics with the potential for cuasing c. diff colitis.....or maybe i might even yes i may give them flourinated water.....all this without my child's consent.....what is this world coming to? because as a future parent i believe the benefits to outweigh the risks.....your opinion may differ and thats fine.....you cannot convince me otherwise, maybe somewhere down the road my opinion will change, but it is not going to be from an internet forum with few medical professionals posting

 

[Dr Rock]

and if you knew alot about it you would realize MRSA is treatable and other infections are worse.

oh, well that's all right then. guess i'll run to the hospital next time i need stitches, then

if manual stretching worked, dont you think a doctor would rather have a guy come in for stretching over 2 years than a one time circumcision?

um, in 90%+ cases the patient does the exercises at home. it's not a medical procedure; it's basically a form of recuperative exercise.

anyways, thanks for justifying my ever-increasing unwillingness to subject myself to the "care" of "medical professionals" - if you're a typical example of what i can expect in a hospital these days, i'm probably better off taking my chances.

 

[baseball99]

oh, well that's all right then. guess i'll run to the hospital next time i need stitches, then


um, in 90%+ cases the patient does the exercises at home. it's not a medical procedure; it's basically a form of recuperative exercise.

anyways, thanks for justifying my ever-increasing unwillingness to subject myself to the "care" of "medical professionals" - if you're a typical example of what i can expect in a hospital these days, i'm probably better off taking my chances.

uhm most people dont run to a hospital for minor stitches, but i really dont understand your argument anyways

my point about foreskin stretching is it would be much easier and profitable to have someone come in 1x/month or 2 months for a checkup than a 1 time circumcision

and anyways, i like how you base your opinion of me completely on my argument about circumcision.....thats ok tho im sure youre in the 85% of the patients that are non-compliant and expect miracle cures when something goes wrong then blames the doctor.....also keep in mind non-compliance has equally caused the MRSA as overprescribing meds.....the problem with your understanding of MRSA is from the media, it really is easily treated.....i would be much more scared of forms of Strep, the "flesh eating bacteria", which of course usually requires an immunocompromised host (there are many forms of being immunocompromised) but will ravage your body.....i would also be much more scared of a drug-resistant tuberculosis.....guess what those last two you are more likely to catch in public than in a hospital....i have seen some doctors who are bad, no personality or anything.....but i have seen some that are so caring and so good at what they do and they get burned out for trying to help patients get better when they are non-compliant

 

[IntactMale]

Just to wanr anybody trying to argue with baseball99

He's a complete idiot. No argument can ever disuade him no matter how you put it. He always seems to conveniently want to drop out of an argument whenever he thinks his made some amazing point, even if it's usually easily defeated with logic.

He also likes to misquote people, and in my case, after misquoting me he accused me of misquoting him. Go check out the Cut vs. Uncut thread to see what I mean. I would advise not wasting any time on this pathetic excuse for a medical professional (at least that's what he claims to be, I haven't heard where he works or went to school).

 

[baseball99]

Just to wanr anybody trying to argue with baseball99

He's a complete idiot. No argument can ever disuade him no matter how you put it. He always seems to conveniently want to drop out of an argument whenever he thinks his made some amazing point, even if it's usually easily defeated with logic.

He also likes to misquote people, and in my case, after misquoting me he accused me of misquoting him. Go check out the Cut vs. Uncut thread to see what I mean. I would advise not wasting any time on this pathetic excuse for a medical professional (at least that's what he claims to be, I haven't heard where he works or went to school).

its not about dropping out of an argument, i just refuse to keep goin back and forth.....you do misquote, misinterpret whatever.....also you show your true colors with blatant insults......cheers

 

[Dr Rock]

uhm most people dont run to a hospital for minor stitches, but i really dont understand your argument anyways

i noticed

thats ok tho im sure youre in the 85% of the patients that are non-compliant

"non-compliant" is my middle name.

 

[IntactMale]

Maybe I'd beleive that if you didn't keep putting in your last word.I never misquoted you, go back and read the thread and you'll see for yourself. Copy and paste, show me where I misquoted you.

Sometimes blatant insults are the only way to get through, obviously logic and published support don't.

 

[robertomuro]

Guys guys, this is all really simple. Not a SINGLE (translated: No, not even one!) official professional medical organisation in the world recommended routine infant circumcision. They either state the risks outweight the benefits or that the benefits are not enough to recommend over the risks.

Personal opinions of everyone in the world aside, if not a single one recommends the practice then what half-baked doctor would take it upon himself to recommend it based on his own feelings, intuitions, psychic abilities, research or whatever else he may feel justifies it?

This is moral factors etc.. aside.

If anyone wants I can reference to a bunch of official statements issued by various organisations throughout the world that specifically state this point of view.

Surely guys it's as simple as this?

 

[Mighty Joe]

Just my own preference....but I had rather see a scar than "lace curtains."

 

[chico8]

Just my own preference....but I had rather see a scar than "lace curtains."

I've yet to hear anyone explain why they get off on scar tissue. If someone had that size of scar on their face, would you find it attractive?

 

[Mighty Joe]

Beauty Is In The Eye Of The Beholder. And..as I said, my opinion was just my own. Actually, I've never seen a bad circumcision scar....I've heard of some cuts gone wrong though.

 

[baseball99]

Guys guys, this is all really simple. Not a SINGLE (translated: No, not even one!) official professional medical organisation in the world recommended routine infant circumcision. They either state the risks outweight the benefits or that the benefits are not enough to recommend over the risks.

Personal opinions of everyone in the world aside, if not a single one recommends the practice then what half-baked doctor would take it upon himself to recommend it based on his own feelings, intuitions, psychic abilities, research or whatever else he may feel justifies it?

This is moral factors etc.. aside.

If anyone wants I can reference to a bunch of official statements issued by various organisations throughout the world that specifically state this point of view.

Surely guys it's as simple as this?

thank you for putting simply what i was trying to say.....the current guidelines of American association of pediatricians does not routinely recommend circumcisions.....they do however state the option should be offered with all benefits and risks presented and parents to decide for themselves.....I have never scared anyone into circumcision nor scared anyone away from the decision.....

 

[Dr Rock]

Beauty Is In The Eye Of The Beholder.

aesthetic appreciation of the effects of injury or physical trauma is generally considered to be a sign of a deeply unhealthy mind.