Coming out to sons

Back to the initial question. Would you regard yourself as being gay or a shade of bisexual?

I would recommend that you sit your sons down and explain that you have been aware that you are gay/bisexual for as long as you can remember. You grew up in a time where those sort of life choices weren't widely accepted, so you chose to live as a straight man.

Most importantly, you need to state that your wife has known for x number of years and you both were happy living this way.

Explain that you have been in a sexless marriage for x length of time and under different health and financial circumstances, you would have divorced when they come of age.

Recently you have decided to explore your gay side but this has not changed your desire to look after their mother through her health issues.

Explain that your wife has recently threatened to use your sexuality against you so you have decided to get ahead of it so she doesn't have that power over you and that you get the opportunity to tell them in your own way first because you believe you owe them that.

Just my suggestion. You will be outed at some point, so it's better this way I think.
Hi @Brodie888. That's all spot on except they are 24 and 29. The only real threat here is her talking out loud to them about the immorality of my actions and what they would think about that. They know all too well how difficult she is to live with, and I've already shared with my elder son information about a recognized psychological disorder called IED for Intermittent Explosive [Anger]. I worked with a renowned authority in the field who told me flat out an affected person needs to want to stop hurting people they care about for any treatment to be effective. I did my share of begging pleading crying for her to get help at a time when it should have mattered to her. They have seen her go off many times, they even saw her call the police once when they were young and helped diffuse the situation, so they must get it.

At this point I think my best defense is to just say the truth:

I repressed my desires as long as I could, got to a breaking point, healed a deep wound I was carrying inside for decades, and continued a friendship with another man who's in a similar unemancipated situation for my own mental health being in a positive relationship and supportive friendship.

Son #1 is in a good marriage and Son #2 broke up a bad college relationship, so they both know what that means. #2 is also one of the most emotionally intelligent people on the planet.

I'd add that given mom's health I never had any thought of not following through on caring for her. Didn't have thoughts of just dumping her like what happened between their grandparents.

Beyond that idk.
 
Hi @Brodie888. That's all spot on except they are 24 and 29. The only real threat here is her talking out loud to them about the immorality of my actions and what they would think about that. They know all too well how difficult she is to live with, and I've already shared with my elder son information about a recognized psychological disorder called IED for Intermittent Explosive [Anger]. I worked with a renowned authority in the field who told me flat out an affected person needs to want to stop hurting people they care about for any treatment to be effective. I did my share of begging pleading crying for her to get help at a time when it should have mattered to her. They have seen her go off many times, they even saw her call the police once when they were young and helped diffuse the situation, so they must get it.

At this point I think my best defense is to just say the truth:

I repressed my desires as long as I could, got to a breaking point, healed a deep wound I was carrying inside for decades, and continued a friendship with another man who's in a similar unemancipated situation for my own mental health being in a positive relationship and supportive friendship.

Son #1 is in a good marriage and Son #2 broke up a bad college relationship, so they both know what that means. #2 is also one of the most emotionally intelligent people on the planet.

I'd add that given mom's health I never had any thought of not following through on caring for her. Didn't have thoughts of just dumping her like what happened between their grandparents.

Beyond that idk.
Oh ps @Brodie888. If mom is going to put down a line in the sand for me about ending any relationships, then mine is going to be she goes to anger management therapy.... which I've always known was best for everyone involved anyway
 
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Hi @Brodie888. That's all spot on except they are 24 and 29. The only real threat here is her talking out loud to them about the immorality of my actions and what they would think about that.

Yes, I know, my point was to tell them that your relationship in real terms had ended with your wife a long time ago.

That you stayed with her because of wanting to give the kids a stable childhood, for financial reasons, for looking after her health, plus any other reasons other than the relationship.

It also sounds like you are a victim of spousal abuse. Because the bruises are on the inside, it doesn't make it any less of an offence. I would also discuss this as why you have to get out of the relationship as much as possible.

So you seeking connection outside the marriage at this point is out of desperation and loneliness. The fact that it's with a man is irrelevant.
 
Yes, I know, my point was to tell them that your relationship in real terms had ended with your wife a long time ago.

That you stayed with her because of wanting to give the kids a stable childhood, for financial reasons, for looking after her health, plus any other reasons other than the relationship.

It also sounds like you are a victim of spousal abuse. Because the bruises are on the inside, it doesn't make it any less of an offence. I would also discuss this as why you have to get out of the relationship as much as possible.

So you seeking connection outside the marriage at this point is out of desperation and loneliness. The fact that it's with a man is irrelevant.
Thank you @Brodie888. I hope they would understand it as a matter of balance. My friendship and relationship is healthy as positive and supportive. Being with him and again it's not all sexual although that is usually thy first order of business just resets me. It affirms what a relationship should be so I have perspective but it also has given me fortitude.

I would say that breaking up the marriage has so many other impacts that I don't take lightly and almost that I wouldn't undertake without the sons' consent. But I'd also say that if they don't want to see a divorce she MUST get help for her anger. Or she has nothing to say about my male relationship because that's the only way I'm going to make it to the end as things are now. The explosions are Intermittent by definition. I need a break too.
 
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Hi looking for advice on coming out to my adult sons (29 & 23). It's a complicated situation.

My wife has always known I'm attracted to men, I fell blindly in love with her because she said I love you anyway, and especially in the age of AIDS I wanted a different life with a family (marrying and having kids was also unthinkable at the time). But we are very incompatible as people she has impulsively explosive anger and an unapologetically rather right than sorry attitude about life. In my immaturity at 28 when we married, I thought living with that was my cross to bear for being accepted and that nobody else would have me..

I vowed being with a man was the one thing I wouldn't do and stuck to it for 25 years. We were intimate for the first 11, her attitudes broke my heart at that point but we were parents by then so I stuck to my vow for another 14 years.

Sparing the details, I did eventually face a point of near breakdown, out of nowhere had a salesman come on to me in a dressing room, realized I needed to face my feelings head on and allowed myself to be with a man at age 54. Driving home from the hotel where we met I looked in the rear view and said out loud, "Finally I can breathe!"

Fast forward maybe 8 years, I've been seeing another married man for about 5. He lives out of town, but mom is still in Chicago and he'd been emptying out her house for years before it finally sold. My wife caught me not being where I said I was (with him overnight instead of at a work meeting which had included overnight stays) . We had a head on conversation. I was unapologetic about the sexual contacts as a matter of mental health, since all my anxiety and guilt vanished overnight with the first encounter. She was furious the relationships had been going on for awhile.

Since that conversation she derogatorily accuses me at every turn of sneaking off to be with "my friends." At least half the time she's dead wrong, some of the time I have nothing to apologize for (like just meeting for coffee) and only rarely am I actually intimate with another man.

Recently for no related reason she exploded that she was "going to blow my cover."

What's my next move?
Should I get ahead of her coming out to my sons so they hear a balanced account first ? I have no problem telling them this is who I am, it's the second part about the relationships since the first encounter that I don't know how to discuss or fear how my relationship as Dad will change as a result. I love them both more than my own life. I hope they know that. They have both grown up to be such fine young men, both str8 but with acceptance of LGBT and even transitions.

They are also both very aware of their moms anger and lack of apology for anything and will call her on it.
Or what conversation should I initiate with my wife instead? I didn't jump to the thought of divorce, not really well off enough to afford it. But she remains steadfast in criticizing the slightest little thing, explodes at the drop of a hat and will not seek treatment. My limited connections with men are as much about experiencing a positive human relationship to keep me going as about the sex.

Did it mention complicated?
She has metastatic cancer, treatable for now but eventually it will take her.
I don't want my younger son to be saddled with caring for her by divorcing, he lives with us now while paying off school loans. I can't bear the thought of his life being derailed from marriage as mom will be in a slow decline at least another 5-10 years maybe before she starts getting seriously worse. I always sought the best care for her without hesitation even though she gives me no credit. I will take that responsibility.
My elder son is married and lives 5 hours away.
And for the time being I have my elderly and declining parents living nearby and in need of help. Dad's 94 with heart issues and cognitive decline, mom is 88 and in middle stage dementia.
I'm 64 and need to work (a demanding job as a university gift officer) another 3 years to reach retirement.
That is quite a story. First of all May I say thanks for sharing it with us. Second, you have all of my sympathy. Life is complicated and people more so sometimes. You have a lot on your plate. Go easy, don’t do anything in a hurry and think before you speak or act.

The first thing you may want to do is come out to your sons. That’s hurle number one. I think you already know that. Do not bad mouth or criticise their mother. Just make a clean breast of it about yourself.

Second, look at divorce. I hesitate with this one because of her cancer. But you can’t be someone else’s carer all your life. What your son chooses to do about his mother’s illness is not really in your control. I know that sounds harsh but I speak from experience in this regard.

This is going to sound harsh and cruel but try to put yourself first. You’ve sublimated a big part of yourself for a long time. Now it’s time to step forward. A huge burden will lift from your shoulders; you’ve already experienced that for yourself. Again I speak from having observed this from a friend who came out when he was 70.

Best of luck.
 
That is quite a story. First of all May I say thanks for sharing it with us. Second, you have all of my sympathy. Life is complicated and people more so sometimes. You have a lot on your plate. Go easy, don’t do anything in a hurry and think before you speak or act.

The first thing you may want to do is come out to your sons. That’s hurle number one. I think you already know that. Do not bad mouth or criticise their mother. Just make a clean breast of it about yourself.

Second, look at divorce. I hesitate with this one because of her cancer. But you can’t be someone else’s carer all your life. What your son chooses to do about his mother’s illness is not really in your control. I know that sounds harsh but I speak from experience in this regard.

lThis is going to sound harsh and cruel but try to put yourself first. You’ve sublimated a big part of yourself for a long time. Now it’s time to step forward. A huge burden will lift from your shoulders; you’ve already experienced that for yourself. Again I speak from having observed this from a friend who came out when he was 70.

Best of luck.

@VisibleMan7 Thank you for your reply. There is a lot of wisdom in what you say. what's important is that I should not be afraid to level with my sons, and as i have said above i should not take divorce off the table. I am not really wired to put myself first, and i have always had a negative reaction to divorced people i meet who still seem to carry that baggage in their relationships with completely innocent bystanders to their personal traumas.

what i think is important here is that i don't give a rip how much she can try to define her reality for everyone else.... her innate anger has been a huge factor in trashing the relationship, and nobody's going to tell me that treating your partner with kindness and respect takes a back seat to fidelity as core vows you make in marriage. . the way she marginalized me at the time i encountered that salesman (compounded by my elder kid just being a typical teenage jerk at the time, i get that) really wore me to the core. i felt i had already turned a blind eye too much in my life... there was no way i could do that again when i lived every quiet moment in angst about the state of my life. and the positive relationship i have experienced with my bf has given me new breath in life and a deeper appreciation for people's suffering when they lose someone they truly love with all their heart.

I like to think my personal values have always been family first, even if my own parents were not so much when it came to their own eldercare. (they refused to leave their large and comfortable but very high maintenance home at a prudent time for more , they wasted a lot of money that had come to dad very plentifully in practice to provide for their own future). so there is still a part of me who believes it's not right of me to make decisions that just dump responsibility on my sons without their involvement or understanding. (just like my parents ... i felt for so long like i was just an accessory to their marriage).

the other truth here is while my wife is stuck in a bad rut of narcissistic thought, her anger is intermittent by definition. right this minute she is yapping with her sister about seeking out organic strawberries for the protein shakes i have to make to help me heal recovery from reconstructive orthopedic surgery from an accidental fall. so yeah, i will be prudent and thoughtful in my actions and not rash and impulsive like she is in hers.

i should also say that i know from personal observation about late bloomers. A Methodist minister i know waited until after retirement to marry the love of his life...at age 70. I wished the two men many more years of happiness together at their wedding ceremony and reception.
 
I'm gonna be honest your son's gonna hate you for lying and cheating even if your wife wasn't a good person.
@Jjsurp99. Of course I am dreading that.
As I said I trust they would be with me up to the very start of the story because there was so much pain behind it ... up for grabs is their sympathy for choosing an unattached friendship as my antidote to the difficulty and harshness of living with her. They know that part all too well from firsthand observation. Not that they were targets but they have always both responded with fairness and maturity to her immaturity and emotional disorder.
The adult part of the conversation is raking through the choices which directly impact them as equal members of the family. Doing the "right" thing from a public view initiating a divorce meant dumping off on them primary responsibility of caring for their mom at an age they had much else going on in their lives. It's a crapshoot either or both will see both sides. But they may just love us both enough to help come to some sort of resolution. I've never regarded my sons as accessories to my life. They are a reason for my purpose in life.
 
@Jjsurp99. Of course I am dreading that.
As I said I trust they would be with me up to the very start of the story because there was so much pain behind it ... up for grabs is their sympathy for choosing an unattached friendship as my antidote to the difficulty and harshness of living with her. They know that part all too well from firsthand observation. Not that they were targets but they have always both responded with fairness and maturity to her immaturity and emotional disorder.
The adult part of the conversation is raking through the choices which directly impact them as equal members of the family. Doing the "right" thing from a public view initiating a divorce meant dumping off on them primary responsibility of caring for their mom at an age they had much else going on in their lives. It's a crapshoot either or both will see both sides. But they may just love us both enough to help come to some sort of resolution. I've never regarded my sons as accessories to my life. They are a reason for my purpose in life.
Just be prepared cuz I will say always be prepared for the worse
 
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All I can say is you can’t go your entire life living a lie.. a lot of guys reveal being gay at younger ages and then others live a straight life up into their older years then decide to tell someone they are gay

Then there’s guys that keep things hidden and then pass away.. and their boyfriend shows up at funeral and people wonder who he is..


Watch a film called bridegroom and see what this guy goes through after his boyfriend suddenly passes away
 
All I can say is you can’t go your entire life living a lie.. a lot of guys reveal being gay at younger ages and then others live a straight life up into their older years then decide to tell someone they are gay

Then there’s guys that keep things hidden and then pass away.. and their boyfriend shows up at funeral and people wonder who he is..


Watch a film called bridegroom and see what this guy goes through after his boyfriend suddenly passes away
I don't disagree @ILoveGames48. I am honest and open in every other aspect of my life. I don't like this at all.

It's just being stuck in the spot of making the most difficult change you've ever made in your life when you're this far down a path and it's so hard to back up or turn around.

Other people are directly involved... it's not just me deciding how I want to live my life. Other players here are:

an unmodulated explosive wife who's hasn't outgrown the scars of being a child of divorce,

two sons who aren't quite settled yet in their own lives being thrust more responsibility in caring for mom who is living with metastasized cancer. She's stable now but going to get worse... plus just juggling separate relationships when as adults but still our kids they really really just need us to get along

My elderly 94 & 88 parents who are now nearby and need all the help they can get. It takes all of us just to deal with that in the best of circumstances.

I know beyond doubt that there is no way to make everyone happy.

I see that this entire situation is nothing less than a full blown shit show.

The only thing that has happened is wife knows and is not finding out from nowhere about a double life. (Unlike my bf who is in that mess).

What hasn't happened with her is an adult conversation along the lines of ... ok you can't abide me. I'm not giving you dominion over my life because it's my mental health at stake if I do. If you won't make an effort to manage your anger that makes you unbearable, and you won't agree to let me have friendships that do not preclude me from caring for you to the end which I am willing to do, then let's get real about what splitting really means in tangible terms and how much worse off is everyone going to be in that scenario... including our kids whom we both love.

But if course I'm in the worst situation with a my way or the highway kind of spouse for whom compromise is a foreign concept. #shitshow.

So that's where I'm at
 
I don't disagree @ILoveGames48. I am honest and open in every other aspect of my life. I don't like this at all.

It's just being stuck in the spot of making the most difficult change you've ever made in your life when you're this far down a path and it's so hard to back up or turn around.

Other people are directly involved... it's not just me deciding how I want to live my life. Other players here are:

an unmodulated explosive wife who's hasn't outgrown the scars of being a child of divorce,

two sons who aren't quite settled yet in their own lives being thrust more responsibility in caring for mom who is living with metastasized cancer. She's stable now but going to get worse... plus just juggling separate relationships when as adults but still our kids they really really just need us to get along

My elderly 94 & 88 parents who are now nearby and need all the help they can get. It takes all of us just to deal with that in the best of circumstances.

I know beyond doubt that there is no way to make everyone happy.

I see that this entire situation is nothing less than a full blown shit show.

The only thing that has happened is wife knows and is not finding out from nowhere about a double life. (Unlike my bf who is in that mess).

What hasn't happened with her is an adult conversation along the lines of ... ok you can't abide me. I'm not giving you dominion over my life because it's my mental health at stake if I do. If you won't make an effort to manage your anger that makes you unbearable, and you won't agree to let me have friendships that do not preclude me from caring for you to the end which I am willing to do, then let's get real about what splitting really means in tangible terms and how much worse off is everyone going to be in that scenario... including our kids whom we both love.

But if course I'm in the worst situation with a my way or the highway kind of spouse for whom compromise is a foreign concept. #shitshow.

So that's where I'm at
Soon you talk to your son's the faster you can deal with your wife.
 
Let me says this ….


There is t anything that can’t be dealt with in your situation.. you can sit there and think of excuses about why not to come out to your sons .. and so on..

Just because you come out doesn’t mean you won’t see them again or your wife or parents unless they don’t like the fact that you are gay now( and apparently have been for a while)


I think it was kind of funny but cool when one friend of mine went to a bar drink few beers.. then decided to go to the gay bar.. I went with him.. we were sitting at the bar and the music was loud and bunch of guys and girls were dancing .. and I said come on .. he didn’t want to but he did anyway..


As we were dancing he bumps into another guy .. he turns to apologize and the person that the guy was dancing with was his son.. we walked off the floor and only thing his son had to say was it’s about time he came out”. … said he had known since the day he found condoms in the glovebox of his car and a guys phone number ..


He mentioned his sons mom and others around and he said they can accept him or not but he wasn’t here on this planet to please everyone and be miserable..


He did tell his wife and they did get a divorce but his life changed.. but he was happier


So all it’s going to take is you deciding to come out .. or stay in the closet and be miserable making others happy

You will prob be surprised that several people prob already know
 
Let me says this ….


There is t anything that can’t be dealt with in your situation.. you can sit there and think of excuses about why not to come out to your sons .. and so on..

Just because you come out doesn’t mean you won’t see them again or your wife or parents unless they don’t like the fact that you are gay now( and apparently have been for a while)


I think it was kind of funny but cool when one friend of mine went to a bar drink few beers.. then decided to go to the gay bar.. I went with him.. we were sitting at the bar and the music was loud and bunch of guys and girls were dancing .. and I said come on .. he didn’t want to but he did anyway..


As we were dancing he bumps into another guy .. he turns to apologize and the person that the guy was dancing with was his son.. we walked off the floor and only thing his son had to say was it’s about time he came out”. … said he had known since the day he found condoms in the glovebox of his car and a guys phone number ..


He mentioned his sons mom and others around and he said they can accept him or not but he wasn’t here on this planet to please everyone and be miserable..


He did tell his wife and they did get a divorce but his life changed.. but he was happier


So all it’s going to take is you deciding to come out .. or stay in the closet and be miserable making others happy

You will prob be surprised that several people prob already know
Ok @ILoveGames48 I took the first step. I asked my son to pick up my refill for PReP . Risky because the packaging confusingly reads "for treating HIV" I'm negative, Descovy is taken to *prevent* HIV infection. He didn't say anything... yet. The Rx info was plainly on the wrapper, he didn't even have to open the bag just turn it over.
 
Ok @ILoveGames48 I took the first step. I asked my son to pick up my refill for PReP . Risky because the packaging confusingly reads "for treating HIV" I'm negative, Descovy is taken to *prevent* HIV infection. He didn't say anything... yet. The Rx info was plainly on the wrapper, he didn't even have to open the bag just turn it over.
So you didn't talk to him you just asked him to pick up your meds?
 
Your meds isn’t the answer especially since not only gay people get aids .. as for prep.. he may just think you’re taking precautions ..- and safety measures to be safe..

You could be out slurring around with other women and still be on prep
 
Hi looking for advice on coming out to my adult sons (29 & 23). It's a complicated situation.

My wife has always known I'm attracted to men, I fell blindly in love with her because she said I love you anyway, and especially in the age of AIDS I wanted a different life with a family (marrying and having kids was also unthinkable at the time). But we are very incompatible as people she has impulsively explosive anger and an unapologetically rather right than sorry attitude about life. In my immaturity at 28 when we married, I thought living with that was my cross to bear for being accepted and that nobody else would have me..

I vowed being with a man was the one thing I wouldn't do and stuck to it for 25 years. We were intimate for the first 11, her attitudes broke my heart at that point but we were parents by then so I stuck to my vow for another 14 years.

Sparing the details, I did eventually face a point of near breakdown, out of nowhere had a salesman come on to me in a dressing room, realized I needed to face my feelings head on and allowed myself to be with a man at age 54. Driving home from the hotel where we met I looked in the rear view and said out loud, "Finally I can breathe!"

Fast forward maybe 8 years, I've been seeing another married man for about 5. He lives out of town, but mom is still in Chicago and he'd been emptying out her house for years before it finally sold. My wife caught me not being where I said I was (with him overnight instead of at a work meeting which had included overnight stays) . We had a head on conversation. I was unapologetic about the sexual contacts as a matter of mental health, since all my anxiety and guilt vanished overnight with the first encounter. She was furious the relationships had been going on for awhile.

Since that conversation she derogatorily accuses me at every turn of sneaking off to be with "my friends." At least half the time she's dead wrong, some of the time I have nothing to apologize for (like just meeting for coffee) and only rarely am I actually intimate with another man.

Recently for no related reason she exploded that she was "going to blow my cover."

What's my next move?
Should I get ahead of her coming out to my sons so they hear a balanced account first ? I have no problem telling them this is who I am, it's the second part about the relationships since the first encounter that I don't know how to discuss or fear how my relationship as Dad will change as a result. I love them both more than my own life. I hope they know that. They have both grown up to be such fine young men, both str8 but with acceptance of LGBT and even transitions.

They are also both very aware of their moms anger and lack of apology for anything and will call her on it.
Or what conversation should I initiate with my wife instead? I didn't jump to the thought of divorce, not really well off enough to afford it. But she remains steadfast in criticizing the slightest little thing, explodes at the drop of a hat and will not seek treatment. My limited connections with men are as much about experiencing a positive human relationship to keep me going as about the sex.

Did it mention complicated?
She has metastatic cancer, treatable for now but eventually it will take her.
I don't want my younger son to be saddled with caring for her by divorcing, he lives with us now while paying off school loans. I can't bear the thought of his life being derailed from marriage as mom will be in a slow decline at least another 5-10 years maybe before she starts getting seriously worse. I always sought the best care for her without hesitation even though she gives me no credit. I will take that responsibility.
My elder son is married and lives 5 hours away.
And for the time being I have my elderly and declining parents living nearby and in need of help. Dad's 94 with heart issues and cognitive decline, mom is 88 and in middle stage dementia.
I'm 64 and need to work (a demanding job as a university gift officer) another 3 years to reach retirement.

Hi Thom, I hope you're well.

I suggest writing a heartfelt letter to your sons. They will always remember and appreciate an honest and vulnerable account of your experiences.

In your letter, take a moment to reassure your sons that they mean the world to you. Mention how important their mother is in your life. Avoid getting caught up in playing games or petty drama. Just speak openly and from the heart, as you did in your original post.

If it helps, you could write a draft copy of the letter and then use an AI writing tool like ChatGPT or Grammarly to get the tone just as you want it.

A physical printed letter is also something they can keep and reread later whenever they need reminding of your truth.

I hope this helps you. Keep us posted.
 
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Hi Thom, I hope you're well.

I suggest writing a heartfelt letter to your sons. They will always remember and appreciate an honest and vulnerable account of your experiences.

In your letter, take a moment to reassure your sons that they mean the world to you. Mention how important their mother is in your life. Avoid getting caught up in playing games or petty drama. Just speak openly and from the heart, as you did in your original post.

If it helps, you could write a draft copy of the letter and then use an AI writing tool like ChatGPT or Grammarly to get the tone just as you want it.

A physical printed letter is also something they can keep and reread later whenever they need reminding of your truth.

I hope this helps you. Keep us posted.
@Bi.London I think a letter is a great idea even as a way if collecting my thoughts for a face to face conversation.
There's been a lot of talk about AI writing apps at work lately. Tone is the last thing I have to think about. I have two writing degrees and have worked in nonprofit communications and philanthropy my entire career.
I struggle only with the last part of the story about maintaining a relationship after the confrontation with my wife. My bf had indeed broken it off with me after I told him about that, but he came around some months later.

The honest truth is I just needed a healthy relationship to balance all the volatility with my wife. Just being friends with Mike, hanging out together, keeps me on an even keel. Of course there's more to our relationship, but my bf is not ever going to leave his wife ... "eloping" isn't on either of our minds. Two widowers together...well yeah. But that's about it.

I don't know if a 29 yo newlywed or a 24 yo bachelor who had only one gf in college would understand that, but they do know their mother.