Coming out to sons

[BatorDaddy]

@Bi.London I think a letter is a great idea even as a way if collecting my thoughts for a face to face conversation.
There's been a lot of talk about AI writing apps at work lately. Tone is the last thing I have to think about. I have two writing degrees and have worked in nonprofit communications and philanthropy my entire career.
I struggle only with the last part of the story about maintaining a relationship after the confrontation with my wife. My bf had indeed broken it off with me after I told him about that, but he came around some months later.

The honest truth is I just needed a healthy relationship to balance all the volatility with my wife. Just being friends with Mike, hanging out together, keeps me on an even keel. Of course there's more to our relationship, but my bf is not ever going to leave his wife ... "eloping" isn't on either of our minds. Two widowers together...well yeah. But that's about it.

I don't know if a 29 yo newlywed or a 24 yo bachelor who had only one gf in college would understand that, but they do know their mother.

I know there will be many others reading this and experiencing the same.

I recently had to communicate with my parents about some difficult experiences in childhood. I had tried to talk directly to them many, many times over 20 years and nothing seemed to cut through.

My therapist helped me to write a letter to them, and it did the job! My parents were able to digest the information in their own time, think about it, then go back to re-read it later.

There is real power in a tangible letter!

I think perhaps you are overthinking this situation somewhat, by trying to solve all of the issues in one conversation.

Ultimately, what you need is for your sons to understand your situation in a compassionate way, so I would try to keep it simple.

While you are composing the letter, try to think of the bigger picture, and think of them reading it again in 5 or 10 years time. The petty drama with their mother won't matter then, so I would avoid making mention of that.

Instead, focus on you and how much they mean to you. And how much you value honesty. And how important it is to you that they are part of your life.

I think that will help them to understand exactly where your head is at.

I am reminded of a podcast episode by Esther Perell (a relationship therapist). Her client was a daughter who had found gay porn while clearing her father’s house after he died from cancer. The daughter was so sad that her father had felt he couldn't open up to her about his sexuality. She also felt guilt that he felt he couldn't share that side of himself with her. She was imagining the needless suffering he must have experienced in keeping a secret.

Hope this helps you, and thanks again for sharing.

 

[Jjsurp99]

I know there will be many others reading this and experiencing the same.

I recently had to communicate with my parents about some difficult experiences in childhood. I had tried to talk directly to them many, many times over 20 years and nothing seemed to cut through.

My therapist helped me to write a letter to them, and it did the job! My parents were able to digest the information in their own time, think about it, then go back to re-read it later.

There is real power in a tangible letter!

I think perhaps you are overthinking this situation somewhat, by trying to solve all of the issues in one conversation.

Ultimately, what you need is for your sons to understand your situation in a compassionate way, so I would try to keep it simple.

While you are composing the letter, try to think of the bigger picture, and think of them reading it again in 5 or 10 years time. The petty drama with their mother won't matter then, so I would avoid making mention of that.

Instead, focus on you and how much they mean to you. And how much you value honesty. And how important it is to you that they are part of your life.

I think that will help them to understand exactly where your head is at.

I am reminded of a podcast episode by Esther Perell (a relationship therapist). Her client was a daughter who had found gay porn while clearing her father’s house after he died from cancer. The daughter was so sad that her father had felt he couldn't open up to her about his sexuality. She also felt guilt that he felt he couldn't share that side of himself with her. She was imagining the needless suffering he must have experienced in keeping a secret.

Hope this helps you, and thanks again for sharing.

While that does help big issue is his cheating and lying

 

[Thom Hewson]

While that does help big issue is his cheating and lying

@Jjsurp99. Yes that is 100% the wife perspective. But if those vows and values are the be all end all, then what about her vows and values? Do those not count at all? How does a husband surviving a spouse's emotional abuse and abject refusal to get treatment for explosive anger fit in? The flip side is just walking out the door? Suing for full custody to prove her an unfit mother? Knowing the turmoil and conflict you're thrusting into the life of your beloved flesh and blood? Depriving him of growing up with a(n adopted) sibling who's the best thing that happened to all of us?
The world isn't that black and white even though some people choose to see it only their way.

 

[ILoveGames48]

.. you boys are in their 20s there is no custody battle there.. they can choose to keep you in their lives or not..

You keep on posting excuse after excuse not to tell them.. but the main excuse /reason to do it is to be able to be free and not hide who you are anymore ..

You going out having sex with men ( or even other women) then coming home sleeping with your wife you are taking chances in giving her something you got from someone else.. then what—

I’m not goi g to post on this topic anymore .. quit thinking of excuses .. either man up and do it or stay hidden ..

 

[Jjsurp99]

Q

@Jjsurp99. Yes that is 100% the wife perspective. But if those vows and values are the be all end all, then what about her vows and values? Do those not count at all? How does a husband surviving a spouse's emotional abuse and abject refusal to get treatment for explosive anger fit in? The flip side is just walking out the door? Suing for full custody to prove her an unfit mother? Knowing the turmoil and conflict you're thrusting into the life of your beloved flesh and blood? Depriving him of growing up with a(n adopted) sibling who's the best thing that happened to all of us?
The world isn't that black and white even though some people choose to see it only their way.

Quit making excuses either stay in the closet and stay faithful to your wife or get a divorce tell your sons and move on. You are the reason why bi men get shit on

 

[Thom Hewson]

.. you boys are in their 20s there is no custody battle there.. they can choose to keep you in their lives or not..

You keep on posting excuse after excuse not to tell them.. but the main excuse /reason to do it is to be able to be free and not hide who you are anymore ..

You going out having sex with men ( or even other women) then coming home sleeping with your wife you are taking chances in giving her something you got from someone else.. then what—

I’m not goi g to post on this topic anymore .. quit thinking of excuses .. either man up and do it or stay hidden ..

@ILoveGames48. I actually don't like playing games. It's not excuses not to tell them. It was a thoughtful post asking only how to explain the part after the confrontation. The rest of it before that I don't need anyone's advice on. It's just me . I was honest with my wife upfront unlike many other men who didn't try to stick to a vow for 25 years .. me, out of sincere desire to have a different life. But marriage is supposed to be a two way street. Ultimately I realized it was the black and white vow in the face of an only sporadically supportive marriage that was killing me.
Thanks for giving me a lot to think about. Ultimately none of my actions were only with myself in mind other than the first step into a man's arms that restored my sanity. I do trust them to understand that... and probably should trust them to understand a lot more.

 

[crawdaddy]

Thom, I was just catching up with this thread and I wanted to add a few comments.
You seem to have had a great deal of thoughtful advice from many others in this thread but you seem a bit ''stuck'' in the same patterns & rationalisations.

Firstly, I was disturbed to read of you asking your son to pick up your PrEP rather than telling him outright. This seems to me to put your son in a really difficult position.
He's clearly a bright young man who is now going to be left with a truck load of questions running through his head. The fact he has not said anything to you suggests that he is:

1. Managing these worries on his own, which is tough on a 24 year old.
2. This isn't news to him, as he's already worked out/knows you are gay/ bisexual and having unprotected sex outside of your relationship with his mother, which, again, must be uncomfortable for him with no explanation.
3. He feels uncomfortable/ unable to discuss it with you.

This is somewhere you need to ''man-up'' if you are to preserve a good relationship with your sons.
Whether it is a letter or a conversation, you need to tell your sons directly, not expect them to join the dots. That is unfair, unkind & lacks courage.
It sounds like you care a great deal about your sons. They will react better and your relationship with them be less ''damaged'' if they hear the truth from you directly.

Secondly, your wife is unlikely to change her personality & behaviours very much at her current age.
Yes, it can happen, if the person has insight & really wants to change, but it is incredibly rare.

Nor, as others have told you, can you force somebody to counselling/ therapy if they do not want to go or do not wish to change or do not see the reason for change.

Nor, is it likely that a person will accept a ''trade off'' of ''I won't have sex with my bf, but you must change in the way I wish''. Sorry, this is just not going to happen!

Having (a number?) of secret gay relationships whilst married to a woman is still cheating, no matter how your wife behaves now/behaved in the past and contorting it into a ''quid pro quo'' with her behaviour and anger doesn't solve the fundamental problem from the information you have given us - that your marriage does not work, nor is it likely to help your wife agree to any forward steps to make a mixed orientation marriage work.

Therefore, you need to sit down with your wife and discuss how you make this work if you continue to live together or separate/divorce and take the ''hit'' to your finances & lifestyle.
There is no other solution I can see.

If you can't do that with your wife (and a marriage guidance counsellor, if necessary), then you will have to decide what you want and how you will live, because it is likely your wife will not change.

All the excuses in the world won't ease the pain you appear to be in and all the prevarication/ rationalisations won't create a resolution.

Please see a Counsellor, talk to your wife & then your sons. I would suggest in that order.

 

[Jjsurp99]

Thom, I was just catching up with this thread and I wanted to add a few comments.
You seem to have had a great deal of thoughtful advice from many others in this thread but you seem a bit ''stuck'' in the same patterns & rationalisations.

Firstly, I was disturbed to read of you asking your son to pick up your PrEP rather than telling him outright. This seems to me to put your son in a really difficult position.
He's clearly a bright young man who is now going to be left with a truck load of questions running through his head. The fact he has not said anything to you suggests that he is:

1. Managing these worries on his own, which is tough on a 24 year old.
2. This isn't news to him, as he's already worked out/knows you are gay/ bisexual and having unprotected sex outside of your relationship with his mother, which, again, must be uncomfortable for him with no explanation.
3. He feels uncomfortable/ unable to discuss it with you.

This is somewhere you need to ''man-up'' if you are to preserve a good relationship with your sons.
Whether it is a letter or a conversation, you need to tell your sons directly, not expect them to join the dots. That is unfair, unkind & lacks courage.
It sounds like you care a great deal about your sons. They will react better and your relationship with them be less ''damaged'' if they hear the truth from you directly.

Secondly, your wife is unlikely to change her personality & behaviours very much at her current age.
Yes, it can happen, if the person has insight & really wants to change, but it is incredibly rare.

Nor, as others have told you, can you force somebody to counselling/ therapy if they do not want to go or do not wish to change or do not see the reason for change.

Nor, is it likely that a person will accept a ''trade off'' of ''I won't have sex with my bf, but you must change in the way I wish''. Sorry, this is just not going to happen!

Having (a number?) of secret gay relationships whilst married to a woman is still cheating, no matter how your wife behaves now/behaved in the past and contorting it into a ''quid pro quo'' with her behaviour and anger doesn't solve the fundamental problem from the information you have given us - that your marriage does not work, nor is it likely to help your wife agree to any forward steps to make a mixed orientation marriage work.

Therefore, you need to sit down with your wife and discuss how you make this work if you continue to live together or separate/divorce and take the ''hit'' to your finances & lifestyle.
There is no other solution I can see.

If you can't do that with your wife (and a marriage guidance counsellor, if necessary), then you will have to decide what you want and how you will live, because it is likely your wife will not change.

All the excuses in the world won't ease the pain you appear to be in and all the prevarication/ rationalisations won't create a resolution.

Please see a Counsellor, talk to your wife & then your sons. I would suggest in that order.

He a type of bi guy he doesn't want to ruin his life that's why he hasn't done anything

 

[Thom Hewson]

Thom, I was just catching up with this thread and I wanted to add a few comments.
You seem to have had a great deal of thoughtful advice from many others in this thread but you seem a bit ''stuck'' in the same patterns & rationalisations.

Firstly, I was disturbed to read of you asking your son to pick up your PrEP rather than telling him outright. This seems to me to put your son in a really difficult position.
He's clearly a bright young man who is now going to be left with a truck load of questions running through his head. The fact he has not said anything to you suggests that he is:

1. Managing these worries on his own, which is tough on a 24 year old.
2. This isn't news to him, as he's already worked out/knows you are gay/ bisexual and having unprotected sex outside of your relationship with his mother, which, again, must be uncomfortable for him with no explanation.
3. He feels uncomfortable/ unable to discuss it with you.

This is somewhere you need to ''man-up'' if you are to preserve a good relationship with your sons.
Whether it is a letter or a conversation, you need to tell your sons directly, not expect them to join the dots. That is unfair, unkind & lacks courage.
It sounds like you care a great deal about your sons. They will react better and your relationship with them be less ''damaged'' if they hear the truth from you directly.

Secondly, your wife is unlikely to change her personality & behaviours very much at her current age.
Yes, it can happen, if the person has insight & really wants to change, but it is incredibly rare.

Nor, as others have told you, can you force somebody to counselling/ therapy if they do not want to go or do not wish to change or do not see the reason for change.

Nor, is it likely that a person will accept a ''trade off'' of ''I won't have sex with my bf, but you must change in the way I wish''. Sorry, this is just not going to happen!

Having (a number?) of secret gay relationships whilst married to a woman is still cheating, no matter how your wife behaves now/behaved in the past and contorting it into a ''quid pro quo'' with her behaviour and anger doesn't solve the fundamental problem from the information you have given us - that your marriage does not work, nor is it likely to help your wife agree to any forward steps to make a mixed orientation marriage work.

Therefore, you need to sit down with your wife and discuss how you make this work if you continue to live together or separate/divorce and take the ''hit'' to your finances & lifestyle.
There is no other solution I can see.

If you can't do that with your wife (and a marriage guidance counsellor, if necessary), then you will have to decide what you want and how you will live, because it is likely your wife will not change.

All the excuses in the world won't ease the pain you appear to be in and all the prevarication/ rationalisations won't create a resolution.

Please see a Counsellor, talk to your wife & then your sons. I would suggest in that order.

@crawdaddy picking up the medication was not a random act however. I agree in hindsight that the result is the same , but the reason was very understandably because I am in a full leg cast for another month following a work accident and reconstructive surgery on my knee.

Yes I agree with your order, it's not happening until I can drive again unless I can find someone to give therapy over zoom.

 

[Thom Hewson]

He a type of bi guy he doesn't want to ruin his life that's why he hasn't done anything

Not true entirely. @Jjsurp99. I'm not bi. I'm gay and tried my damnedest in an age of AIDS and no gay marriage or parenting to have a different life. The desire was selfless and sincere. So was the desire to make the marriage work. And to stay in it for the sake of the family which sometimes only someone who is a parent can understand. And to stay with her after her metastatic cancer diagnosis.
I'm well aware of the rise in "gray divorces." I'm also well aware of the needs of a son who's still getting his feet on the ground with loans to pay off and a wife who is doing less and less because of her condition.
My initial question about coming out to my sons was for them to understand the whole family situation with some balance and not just their mothers view.
My quandary was only in explaining the time since my wife's confrontation and trying to hold it all together for everyone myself included.
My first challenge is clearly opening the conversation with my wife, not my sons, but like hell am I going to let them hear it all from her as their only source.

 

[Brodie888]

You were wanting to get ahead of your wife in explaining your side. Just do it. Written is fine, then follow up by conversation. The downside of writing is that it will be shown to people who you may not want to be told at this stage. Eg his partner, your wife etc.

The Prep thing wasn't a great idea. Most likely your son will be asking your wife if she knows about it. Especially if he thinks you might have hiv (even though you aren't).

I think you know what you need to say. You seem pretty clear on that. You can watch YouTube videos of people coming out to see how others have done it. It may help.

 

[BatorDaddy]

Hey @Thom Hewson - Just a friendly reminder: don't pay too much attention to the negative comments. I'm certain that whatever they say doesn't compare to the negative thoughts you've been telling yourself for years. You came here for constructive advice, and hopefully some of us have provided that. Not sure why people get off on being so hurtful to complete strangers. It's weird.

 

[Allex23]

Not true entirely. @Jjsurp99. I'm not bi. I'm gay and tried my damnedest in an age of AIDS and no gay marriage or parenting to have a different life. The desire was selfless and sincere. So was the desire to make the marriage work. And to stay in it for the sake of the family which sometimes only someone who is a parent can understand. And to stay with her after her metastatic cancer diagnosis.
I'm well aware of the rise in "gray divorces." I'm also well aware of the needs of a son who's still getting his feet on the ground with loans to pay off and a wife who is doing less and less because of her condition.
My initial question about coming out to my sons was for them to understand the whole family situation with some balance and not just their mothers view.
My quandary was only in explaining the time since my wife's confrontation and trying to hold it all together for everyone myself included.
My first challenge is clearly opening the conversation with my wife, not my sons, but like hell am I going to let them hear it all from her as their only source.

Basically, you use whoever you want, for as long as is convenient.

First it was your poor wife because facing society and living a life with another man wasn't good enough at the time (there are guys your age/older than you who never hid behind any woman).

The "good" part is that your wife won't live long to hate you.

P.S: I hope your children didn't inherit your "courage"

 

[Thom Hewson]

Basically, you use whoever you want, for as long as is convenient.

First it was your poor wife because facing society and living a life with another man wasn't good enough at the time (there are guys your age/older than you who never hid behind any woman).

The "good" part is that your wife won't live long to hate you.

P.S: I hope your children didn't inherit your "courage"

@Allex23 i am proud to say you're mistaken. sorry if everything wasn't laid out clearly.
I did not in any way go into marriage intending to 'use' anyone.... i do understand that happens, marrying just for the sake of appearances. That was not me. I genuinely thought it was possible to have a different life on wish and prayer alone, and i battled my feelings every. day. Until I realized in that one day that it was the battle which was slowly killing me.

What i did not do was gauge the incompatibilities in the relationship well enough, which evidently were more than obvious to (m)any other people, including people who knew me through my wife. Nor did i have the emotional intelligence to understand the impact of those difference on a relationship in the long run. I do recall at one point actually trying to break it off... not because of sex but because of the explosive anger. I did not have the courage to go through with it in the end, because I wanted so much for things to work and still believed she was the only person who would have me in my "broken" state. Love can indeed be blind.

I'm not angry at your misjudgment, but i do feel compelled to set the record straight.

ps. if you knew my sons, you would know how intensely proud I am of what fine young men they are. People give me credit all the time when I am innately modest about their upbringing. I credit them with making good choices. The tough part is, neither of them would be here if I didn't make the choices I did, so it's really really difficult to contemplate mistakes of the past. Neither of them is in any way a mistake. They are my reason for being itself.

 

[Jjsurp99]

@Allex23 i am proud to say you're mistaken. sorry if everything wasn't laid out clearly.
I did not in any way go into marriage intending to 'use' anyone.... i do understand that happens, marrying just for the sake of appearances. That was not me. I genuinely thought it was possible to have a different life on wish and prayer alone, and i battled my feelings every. day. Until I realized in that one day that it was the battle which was slowly killing me.

What i did not do was gauge the incompatibilities in the relationship well enough, which evidently were more than obvious to (m)any other people, including people who knew me through my wife. Nor did i have the emotional intelligence to understand the impact of those difference on a relationship in the long run. I do recall at one point actually trying to break it off... not because of sex but because of the explosive anger. I did not have the courage to go through with it in the end, because I wanted so much for things to work and still believed she was the only person who would have me in my "broken" state. Love can indeed be blind.

I'm not angry at your misjudgment, but i do feel compelled to set the record straight.

ps. if you knew my sons, you would know how intensely proud I am of what fine young men they are. People give me credit all the time when I am innately modest about their upbringing. I credit them with making good choices. The tough part is, neither of them would be here if I didn't make the choices I did, so it's really really difficult to contemplate mistakes of the past. Neither of them is in any way a mistake. They are my reason for being itself.

You did use her you could of stayed single but you used her

 

[crawdaddy]

You did use her you could of stayed single but you used her

Basically, you use whoever you want, for as long as is convenient.

First it was your poor wife because facing society and living a life with another man wasn't good enough at the time (there are guys your age/older than you who never hid behind any woman).

The "good" part is that your wife won't live long to hate you.

P.S: I hope your children didn't inherit your "courage"

Guys, there seems to be a lot of judgement here & not a lot of advice. How is this going to help @Thom Hewson , when he came here asking for advice?
It's clear he knows he's made some huge mistakes and seems to be trying to find a way to resolve them, hurting least the people he cares about and trying to maintain his responsibilities for his wife.

Are either of you the same age as Tom & did you live through the fear of AIDS, rampant homophobia & continuous societal pressure to 'be straight'?
A lot of gay men made a lot of bad decisions then & tried to be something they weren't. Yes, he did 'use' his wife in marrying her, but it sounds like he's more than suffered in terms of what he has been through and what has likely told himself. Nothing you are going to write is going to be as bad as what he has told himself. Believe me, I've been there; as have many men (& women) for hundreds of years. It 's wrong, it's tragic and it was the result of a society that rejected, instilled fear & closed off options.

So many women (& men) were hurt, misused and deceived by men (or women) who lacked the enormous courage needed to fight against all of this. That's a tragedy that hopefully we will see much less of in the future now LBTGQ sexualities are (a bit) more accepted & tolerated in (parts) of the world. Personal responsibility of course comes into it, but try walking a mile in someone else's shoes before you rush to judgement.

 

[Jjsurp99]

Guys, there seems to be a lot of judgement here & not a lot of advice. How is this going to help @Thom Hewson , when he came here asking for advice?
It's clear he knows he's made some huge mistakes and seems to be trying to find a way to resolve them, hurting least the people he cares about and trying to maintain his responsibilities for his wife.

Are either of you the same age as Tom & did you live through the fear of AIDS, rampant homophobia & continuous societal pressure to 'be straight'?
A lot of gay men made a lot of bad decisions then & tried to be something they weren't. Yes, he did 'use' his wife in marrying her, but it sounds like he's more than suffered in terms of what he has been through and what has likely told himself. Nothing you are going to write is going to be as bad as what he has told himself. Believe me, I've been there; as have many men (& women) for hundreds of years. It 's wrong, it's tragic and it was the result of a society that rejected, instilled fear & closed off options.

So many women (& men) were hurt, misused and deceived by men (or women) who lacked the enormous courage needed to fight against all of this. That's a tragedy that hopefully we will see much less of in the future now LBTGQ sexualities are (a bit) more accepted & tolerated in (parts) of the world. Personal responsibility of course comes into it, but try walking a mile in someone else's shoes before you rush to judgement.

He knows what he needs to do. Be honest come out stop lying to everyone and himself

 

[Thom Hewson]

Guys, there seems to be a lot of judgement here & not a lot of advice. How is this going to help @Thom Hewson , when he came here asking for advice?
It's clear he knows he's made some huge mistakes and seems to be trying to find a way to resolve them, hurting least the people he cares about and trying to maintain his responsibilities for his wife.

Are either of you the same age as Tom & did you live through the fear of AIDS, rampant homophobia & continuous societal pressure to 'be straight'?
A lot of gay men made a lot of bad decisions then & tried to be something they weren't. Yes, he did 'use' his wife in marrying her, but it sounds like he's more than suffered in terms of what he has been through and what has likely told himself. Nothing you are going to write is going to be as bad as what he has told himself. Believe me, I've been there; as have many men (& women) for hundreds of years. It 's wrong, it's tragic and it was the result of a society that rejected, instilled fear & closed off options.

So many women (& men) were hurt, misused and deceived by men (or women) who lacked the enormous courage needed to fight against all of this. That's a tragedy that hopefully we will see much less of in the future now LBTGQ sexualities are (a bit) more accepted & tolerated in (parts) of the world. Personal responsibility of course comes into it, but try walking a mile in someone else's shoes before you rush to judgement.

@crawdaddy Thank you again for your compassionate understanding.

It dawns on me that I "buried the lede" as we say in journalism. Ignored a most important part as the real headline.

*I didn't deceive my wife.* I told her very early on in our relationship, well before we were intimate, of my attraction to men. She replied "I love you anyway."

On those four words, I fell blindly in love, ignoring the cautions my family and some friends were trying to give me.

It's taken me 40 years to see the whole picture.... and I do think that does include feelings and life wishes that come from very different places than some of the remarks here by men who knew they never wanted to bring up children or who weren't raised in very close, or closed, very ethnic families.

 

[Allex23]

Guys, there seems to be a lot of judgement here & not a lot of advice. How is this going to help @Thom Hewson , when he came here asking for advice?
It's clear he knows he's made some huge mistakes and seems to be trying to find a way to resolve them, hurting least the people he cares about and trying to maintain his responsibilities for his wife.

Are either of you the same age as Tom & did you live through the fear of AIDS, rampant homophobia & continuous societal pressure to 'be straight'?
A lot of gay men made a lot of bad decisions then & tried to be something they weren't. Yes, he did 'use' his wife in marrying her, but it sounds like he's more than suffered in terms of what he has been through and what has likely told himself. Nothing you are going to write is going to be as bad as what he has told himself. Believe me, I've been there; as have many men (& women) for hundreds of years. It 's wrong, it's tragic and it was the result of a society that rejected, instilled fear & closed off options.

So many women (& men) were hurt, misused and deceived by men (or women) who lacked the enormous courage needed to fight against all of this. That's a tragedy that hopefully we will see much less of in the future now LBTGQ sexualities are (a bit) more accepted & tolerated in (parts) of the world. Personal responsibility of course comes into it, but try walking a mile in someone else's shoes before you rush to judgement.

I know (personally) dozens of men the same age and even older than Tom and all of them, despite being from extremely religious families, suffering family rejection, losing jobs, being beaten, living with the fear/stigma of AIDS (many without having HIV), and none of them hid behind a woman.

Guys like you and Thom are always blaming the world, when you guys are the villains in your own stories.

 

[Jjsurp99]

I know (personally) dozens of men the same age and even older than Tom and all of them, despite being from extremely religious families, suffering family rejection, losing jobs, being beaten, living with the fear/stigma of AIDS (many without having HIV), and none of them hid behind a woman.

Guys like you and Thom are always blaming the world, when you guys are the villains in your own stories.

Well he is bisexual so you know how some of those guys are