Gay or Nah?

[AllieHeidi]

This is thread is specifically to hold a (hopefully respectful) discussion about the sexuality of men who identify as gay and also are sexually attracted to transmen. I've peeked into a couple of threads here where debates get triggered and it veers the purpose of the thread off its topic making the experience for those interested in the topic poor. So, have at it.

Are gay men who sleep with and/or desire to sleep with transmen 100% gay or do they fall somewhere else on the Kinsey scale?

Play nice.

 

[Topher the Gopher]

I can be attracted to transmen and consider myself gay because I'm not the least interested in females, whether they be cis or trans. A lot of gay guys take offense to this and try to tell me I'm not "really gay." To that I say, mind your own business and who the fuck cares?

 

[AllieHeidi]

I'm not the least interested in females,

Technically, transmen are biologically female. That's probably where the source of contention lies. They changed portions of their phenotype to appear male, but their biological sex is still female. That's why they're trans in the first place.

I agree that others should probably mind their own business when it comes to your life, however, the issue they probably have is with those who say that having sex with a transman is 100% gay sex when this isn't necessarily accurate.

 

[voyeur pup]

I just want people to own who they are and a label is just a label. However, the desire to put a penis in a vagina would lend you toward the bi/ Str8 and not a gay label imo. Even if it is attached to a trans male. There is nothing wrong with that and why get upset. It’s just a label. Do what you want with who you want and enjoy life. It’s not for me but I think it’s hot anyways.

 

[Topher the Gopher]

I do recognize the difference between biological sex and gender identity. If one doesn't want to consider sex between a cis man and a trans man 100% gay, that's perfectly fine. I do for myself simply because, aside from having a pussy, they look and sound like guys.

Personally, I wouldn't say a guy is necessarily bi if he's into trans women or a woman is if she's into trans men. I see a difference between orientation and genital preference. My disinterest is in just about everything about women except their genitals. Having a penis doesn't make me attracted to trans women, for instance.

In the end, I think people get too hung up on labels and identity politics.

Technically, transmen are biologically female. That's probably where the source of contention lies. They changed portions of their phenotype to appear male, but their biological sex is still female. That's why they're trans in the first place.

I agree that others should probably mind their own business when it comes to your life, however, the issue they probably have is with those who say that having sex with a transman is 100% gay sex when this isn't necessarily accurate.

 

[voyeur pup]

Since we are on the topic, I’m curious and I believe you have to ask questions to fully understand someone else’s walk in life. But if you are a trans male and truly feel like a man I would think that you would not like your vagina or breasts. That’s why many elect to have that surgery so I’ve always wondered why have sex with your vagina and not in the ass like other gay men. Unless you are not “gay” and are Str8 in which I would think you would want to peg someone if your penis cannot function with penetration.
I am not judging either way I’m just curious and want to fully understand. I’m fascinated. Life is hard. Be yourself but help others understand to make it easier for the next to follow in your footsteps. I hope this makes sense

 

[voyeur pup]

I do recognize the difference between biological sex and gender identity. If one doesn't want to consider sex between a cis man and a trans man 100% gay, that's perfectly fine. I do for myself simply because, aside from having a pussy, they look and sound like guys.

Personally, I wouldn't say a guy is necessarily bi if he's into trans women or a woman is if she's into trans men. I see a difference between orientation and genital preference. My disinterest is in just about everything about women except their genitals. Having a penis doesn't make me attracted to trans women, for instance.

In the end, I think people get too hung up on labels and identity politics.

Interesting take on it. I could easily be in a relationship with a woman but would not have sex with her because I’m not attracted to breast and vaginas. This is so interesting and love hearing others beliefs and thoughts as it helps clear the air. Thanks for allowing us to have this open conversation.

 

[Topher the Gopher]

Since we are on the topic, I’m curious and I believe you have to ask questions to fully understand someone else’s walk in life. But if you are a trans male and truly feel like a man I would think that you would not like your vagina or breasts. That’s why many elect to have that surgery so I’ve always wondered why have sex with your vagina and not in the ass like other gay men. Unless you are not “gay” and are Str8 in which I would think you would want to peg someone if your penis cannot function with penetration.
I am not judging either way I’m just curious and want to fully understand. I’m fascinated. Life is hard. Be yourself but help others understand to make it easier for the next to follow in your footsteps. I hope this makes sense

Not being transgender myself and never having had occasion to sleep with a trans man, I cannot speak for anyone else, but I can offer my thoughts.

I think there are varying degrees of transgenderism and body dysmorphia. I think probably for many trans people, their dislike has less to do with their genitals and more to do with their overall appearance and how they feel about themselves as a person.

I think probably many trans people don't discount the sexual pleasure they can have with the genitals they were born with. If they're happy with their sexual organs, then there's no need to not enjoy what their penis or clitoris does for them.

I think probaby a lot of trans women are tops and a lot of trans men are bottoms. That is to say, a trans woman fucking a cis man or woman wouldn't be far off from a cis woman using a strap-on on a partner, and a trans man liking being fucked, whether in the vagina or anus, wouldn't be far off from a cis man being fucked.

I also think probably a lot of trans men do use strap-ons if that's what gets them off.

I think people in general are complicated in what they like and don't like. I imagine there exists somewhere in the world straight men who only like to get fucked in the ass by women with toys and straight women who only like to fuck men in the ass by toys. As they say, it takes all kinds, variety is the spice of life and all that rot.

 

[AllieHeidi]

I do recognize the difference between biological sex and gender identity. If one doesn't want to consider sex between a cis man and a trans man 100% gay, that's perfectly fine. I do for myself simply because, aside from having a pussy, they look and sound like guys.

Personally, I wouldn't say a guy is necessarily bi if he's into trans women or a woman is if she's into trans men. I see a difference between orientation and genital preference. My disinterest is in just about everything about women except their genitals. Having a penis doesn't make me attracted to trans women, for instance.

In the end, I think people get too hung up on labels and identity politics.

Some may argue that what you're describing in the bolded portion is considered a form of andromimetophilia. A 100% gay man would, understandably, not be sexually attracted to female genitalia.

 

[Topher the Gopher]

Some may argue that what you're describing in the bolded portion is considered a form of andromimetophilia. A 100% gay man would, understandably, not be sexually attracted to female genitalia.

I don't think so in my case because my sexuality isn't hinged on trans men. I've never even been with one and have enjoyed the majority of my (cis male) sexual partners.

 

[voyeur pup]

Not being transgender myself and never having had occasion to sleep with a trans man, I cannot speak for anyone else, but I can offer my thoughts.

I think there are varying degrees of transgenderism and body dysmorphia. I think probably for many trans people, their dislike has less to do with their genitals and more to do with their overall appearance and how they feel about themselves as a person.

I think probably many trans people don't discount the sexual pleasure they can have with the genitals they were born with. If they're happy with their sexual organs, then there's no need to not enjoy what their penis or clitoris does for them.

I think probaby a lot of trans women are tops and a lot of trans men are bottoms. That is to say, a trans woman fucking a cis man or woman wouldn't be far off from a cis woman using a strap-on on a partner, and a trans man liking being fucked, whether in the vagina or anus, wouldn't be far off from a cis man being fucked.

I also think probably a lot of trans men do use strap-ons if that's what gets them off.

I think people in general are complicated in what they like and don't like. I imagine there exists somewhere in the world straight men who only like to get fucked in the ass by women with toys and straight women who only like to fuck men in the ass by toys. As they say, it takes all kinds, variety is the spice of life and all that rot.

Thanks for giving more to consider with my personal understanding

 

[Kanashi]

It seems to me that a lot of people think Well, "I have no desire to have sex with a vagina, so that must mean I'm 100% gay and anyone else that doesn't feel the exact same is not gay." But where do you draw the line? Do have you have to be repulsed at the idea of having sex with a vagina? What if you don't crave it, but you're not turned off by it either?

When it comes to attraction, the genitilia isn't the only thing we're attracted to. Or turned off by, for that matter.

 

[AllieHeidi]

When it comes to attraction, the genitilia isn't the only thing we're attracted to. Or turned off by, for that matter.

That depends on whether or not you're taking the "split-attraction model" into account. Unless one lives in a nudist colony, most of us don't see people's genitals first. We only see their secondary sex characteristics coupled with the established social and cultural norms of masculinity or feminity of our respective regions. For this reason, any physical attraction that is first experienced between the vast majority of humans is andro/gynesexual in nature.

Sexual and other forms of attraction (i.e. romantic, etc) can then, of course, develop from this. However, the term sexual explicitly refers to the sexual/reproductive organs. Genitals are sexual reproductive organs. Therefore, a gay man being sexually attracted to female (opposite sex) genitalia or a straight man being sexually attracted to male (same-sex) genitalia is, technically, experiencing bisexual sexual attraction.

 

[006]

Thank God for this thread! A place to discuss this subject intelligently. It’s been a long day for me so I will be joining the discussion with my two cents later but just wanted to say thanks for this thread aheidla !

 

[Kanashi]

Therefore, a gay man being sexually attracted to female (opposite sex) genitalia or a straight man being sexually attracted to male (same-sex) genitalia is, technically, experiencing bisexual sexual attraction.

But, the way i see it, I'm not attracted to female genitalia. So, I find typical, traditional visual masculine traits sexy. Such as beards, chest hair, biceps. I've seen trans men with these traits/qualities and I find it to be very sexy. I'm not thinking "this person has a vagina." I'm thinking "This person considers themself a man and I see them the same as they see themselves." Who cares if they have a penis or vagina? I could be intimate with them without having penile/vaginal sex. Making out and body contact and foreplay is more enjoyable to me, anyway, than penetrative sex, whether it involves vagina or anuses.

On the flip side, I'm not attracted to transwomen or cis gengered women. But also, I'm not attracted to every person who has a penis, just because they have a penis. The equipment does not 100% determine attraction to me.

Of course, all of this hinges upon if you do or don't consider transmen as "men". I do. I understand that is a personal decision that not everyone agrees with that. But I still consider myself a cis gendered guy attracted to other men. In my eyes, that makes me a homosexual. For those of you that don't agree, do you consider me a bisexual bc I don't 100% factor in a person's genitalia when considering attraction? Or do you have a different term?

 

[006]

Maybe pansexual?

 

[006]

But, the way i see it, I'm not attracted to female genitalia. So, I find typical, traditional visual masculine traits sexy. Such as beards, chest hair, biceps. I've seen trans men with these traits/qualities and I find it to be very sexy. I'm not thinking "this person has a vagina." I'm thinking "This person considers themself a man and I see them the same as they see themselves." Who cares if they have a penis or vagina? I could be intimate with them without having penile/vaginal sex. Making out and body contact and foreplay is more enjoyable to me, anyway, than penetrative sex, whether it involves vagina or anuses.

On the flip side, I'm not attracted to transwomen or cis gengered women. But also, I'm not attracted to every person who has a penis, just because they have a penis. The equipment does not 100% determine attraction to me.

Of course, all of this hinges upon if you do or don't consider transmen as "men". I do. I understand that is a personal decision that not everyone agrees with that. But I still consider myself a cis gendered guy attracted to other men. In my eyes, that makes me a homosexual. For those of you that don't agree, do you consider me a bisexual bc I don't 100% factor in a person's genitalia when considering attraction? Or do you have a different term?

I’m a little different in that yes I’m not romantically or sexually attracted to females and therefore have never had any experience (or interest) in their genitalia. However, the traditional male visual presentations which you mention do not necessarily fit the usual “type” of guy that attracts me. Though I’ve been with my share of burly built guys, my tastes also include smooth, slim, geeky guys or even slightly effeminate twinks. And the things they have in common, which turns me on the most once we hit the sheets are their penises and asses. It’s what having sex means to me.

I suppose that’s why I get a bit defensive when I’m told I’m wrong- that I’m only gay because I’m attracted to masculine gender traits not male genitalia.

 

[Walktheplank]

I used to be strictly attracted to cis-men…but I’ve grown over the years…and I have found myself attracted to trans men as well…and I think that has to do with no longer being a virgin and experiencing sex…through the experiences I’ve had I’ve realized there is so much more to sex than I had ever thought there would be….and I’ve learned what I actually like about sex and for the most part my favorite things are non penetrative…like rubbing our bodies together feeling another man’s warmth kissing him and holding him is literally my favorite part of getting intimate with someone…I love oral sex kissing him and then listening to him pant and moan as I pleasure him…I’m a top too but I LOVE to pleasure other people so a dick is not a requirement but it’s nice because I am attracted to dicks…I will say that I’ve actually never found vaginas unattractive or get turned off by them…if I had to describe them I’d say I’m neutral…i feel like I could have sex with a trans man no problem tho.

 

[006]

I’ve made a few trans men friends through Grindr. I was very up front with them telling them that I felt I needed to personally know transgender people rather than only hearing and reading the debate about them. They are very sweet and likable and I hope to have a continuing friendship with them both.
One of them I think is cute (although admittedly not completely my type) but he is interested in hooking up with me. He knows it would be my first time and is fine with it. I’ve decided to have him over and see what happens. He is in an open relationship (as am I) so no hearts will be broken if things don’t quite work out.

I’m curious to see how I feel during and after. Will I still consider myself “gay”? Stay tuned… lol

 

[006]

I used to be strictly attracted to cis-men…but I’ve grown over the years…and I have found myself attracted to trans men as well…and I think that has to do with no longer being a virgin and experiencing sex…through the experiences I’ve had I’ve realized there is so much more to sex than I had ever thought there would be….and I’ve learned what I actually like about sex and for the most part my favorite things are non penetrative…like rubbing our bodies together feeling another man’s warmth kissing him and holding him is literally my favorite part of getting intimate with someone…I love oral sex kissing him and then listening to him pant and moan as I pleasure him…I’m a top too but I LOVE to pleasure other people so a dick is not a requirement but it’s nice because I am attracted to dicks…I will say that I’ve actually never found vaginas unattractive or get turned off by them…if I had to describe them I’d say I’m neutral…i feel like I could have sex with a trans man no problem tho.

So you have never had sex with a trans man? I’m afraid I would miss the dick. When I suck a dick I know exactly how the guy is feeling because I too have a dick (that’s the homo or “same” part). It almost becomes a visceral sensation. Similarly with anal, as I’ve been both top and bottom (mostly top these days.)

As I said in another post, I’m planning to have sex with a new trans man friend and I’m wondering if the lack of similar genitalia will confound me to the point of making the act feel rather empty for me.