Gay or Nah?

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So you have never had sex with a trans man? I’m afraid I would miss the dick. When I suck a dick I know exactly how the guy is feeling because I too have a dick (that’s the homo or “same” part). It almost becomes a visceral sensation. Similarly with anal, as I’ve been both top and bottom (mostly top these days.)

As I said in another post, I’m planning to have sex with a new trans man friend and I’m wondering if the lack of similar genitalia will confound me to the point of making the act feel rather empty for me.
I haven’t either but…I feel like they’re a person and a person will tell you whether or not they’re having fun :) just listen to them…people will give you cues like “right there” “just like that” “ keep going, that feels so good” you know what I mean?
 
I haven’t either but…I feel like they’re a person and a person will tell you whether or not they’re having fun :) just listen to them…people will give you cues like “right there” “just like that” “ keep going, that feels so good” you know what I mean?
I know what you mean but do you get what I mean about the visceral sensation of knowing exactly how something you’re doing feels? It would be like the difference between an old master artist painting from inspiration and someone following the directions for a paint-by-numbers set.
 
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I haven’t either but…I feel like they’re a person and a person will tell you whether or not they’re having fun :) just listen to them…people will give you cues like “right there” “just like that” “ keep going, that feels so good” you know what I mean?
I feel this same way. I've never had sex with anyone with a vagina. But I'm curious about it. Would I be able to please them in ways other than penetration with my penis? I think it wouldn't be interesting to explore and see if I could. But if I never do try it out, then that's fine. I don't crave it or have a strong desire for it.
 
I know what you mean but do you get what I mean about the visceral sensation of knowing exactly how something you’re doing feels? It would be like the difference between an old master artist painting from inspiration and someone following the directions for a paint-by-numbers set.
Yes, different methods, but in the end, the results are the same, right? If you're getting the person off, or you've completed the painting, then the goal has been accomplished, right?

Personally, I rarely getoff from receiving oral sex. Yes a guy may have a better understanding of how to pleasure a penis since he has one himself, but that in itself doesn't mean one man is going to always be able to please another man, right? Can't there be other factors involved?

But I understand what you're saying and how it can be sexy, knowing exactly how it feels for the other guy.
 
Yes, different methods, but in the end, the results are the same, right? If you're getting the person off, or you've completed the painting, then the goal has been accomplished, right?
There’s a big difference between a masterpiece and a paint by numbers painting obviously but beyond that (to push this analogy even further lol) it’s the experience of painting with creative inspiration versus just monotonously following directions until you finally finish.
 
But, the way i see it, I'm not attracted to female genitalia. So, I find typical, traditional visual masculine traits sexy. Such as beards, chest hair, biceps. I've seen trans men with these traits/qualities and I find it to be very sexy.

Sounds like there may be elements of androsexuality, here. While you're not specifically attracted to female genitalia, you're not unattracted to female genitalia, either. You're indifferent. Thus, your attraction for maleness and masculinity (i.e. androphilia) in a way overrides that feature and deems it a non-issue. For most, the genitals are the very essence of sex and sexual attraction. So, for most, it is difficult to rule them out as irrelevant when discussing matters of sex.

In that regard, you technically experience a form of bisexual attraction. A 100% gay man would be immediately turned off by the presence of female genitals regardless of how manly the individual is that they're attached to because he is 100% same-sex attracted.

I don't think that people explore how androphilia and gynophilia can also influence human sexuality as a whole by adding to its complexity. Gay men who are 100% gay are equal parts androphilic and homosexual. However, a self-identified gay man who is not turned off by female genitalia and is able to sexually perform with female genitalia, provided their partner physically appears male in all other aspects, might be more androphilic than homosexual.

Whether they are considered slightly bisexual is debatable, but I think it might be interesting to explore how androphilia plays a role in the attraction towards transmen with vaginas, as well. The same exploration could be considered for straight women who may find themselves attracted to transmen and straight men who find themselves attracted to transwomen (i.e. gynophilia) regardless of their genitals.
 
Sounds like there may be elements of androsexuality, here. While you're not specifically attracted to female genitalia, you're not unattracted to female genitalia, either. You're indifferent. Thus, your attraction for maleness and masculinity (i.e. androphilia) in a way overrides that feature and deems it a non-issue. For most, the genitals are the very essence of sex and sexual attraction. So, for most, it is difficult to rule them out as irrelevant when discussing matters of sex.

In that regard, you technically experience a form of bisexual attraction. A 100% gay man would be immediately turned off by the presence of female genitals regardless of how manly the individual is that they're attached to because he is 100% same-sex attracted.

I don't think that people explore how androphilia and gynophilia can also influence human sexuality as a whole by adding to its complexity. Gay men who are 100% gay are equal parts androphilic and homosexual. However, a self-identified gay man who is not turned off by female genitalia and is able to sexually perform with female genitalia, provided their partner physically appears male in all other aspects, might be more androphilic than homosexual.

Whether they are considered slightly bisexual is debatable, but I think it might be interesting to explore how androphilia plays a role in the attraction towards transmen with vaginas, as well. The same exploration could be considered for straight women who may find themselves attracted to transmen and straight men who find themselves attracted to transwomen (i.e. gynophilia) regardless of their genitals.
I can appreciate your wanting to understand the semantics of the thing, but what bothers me about it is the identity politics that stem from said thing. As I previously said, if someone considers me to be only 99% homo because of my potential attraction to trans men, that's fine, but I have had discourse (online) with gay men who virulently opposed to my identity as a gay man. They seemed to be highly offended by my contrast between orientation and genital preference.

I think maybe it has something to do with the prevalence of social media and otherwise greater media in the past few decades. Prior to that, it was great enough that the very idea of same-sex relations be considered something other than predatory and sinful. Just today, I saw a comment which said that the trans rights movement "undid" everything the gay rights movement tried to do.

I think some people find it difficult, mind-bending, and therefore anger-inducing to try to understand the variances between orientations and preferences. To me, I am a gay man despite my potential attraction to trans men because, well, what else am I going to call myself? When I say I'm gay, people (usually) know what that means. Why complicate matters with technical terms?
 
I think it matters the audience you're polling. I think if you asked your average, cis male attracted gay man, they would say a gay guy that likes transmen is more "negatively" bi leaning, appreciation for vagina seems to be the line to not be crossed; I'd imagine you'd get the same result with the average straight man, only with a bit more affirmative "appreciation" for the hetero-esque attraction to female genitalia.
Long story short, I think gay men that appreciate transmen are in a similar boat as straight men that appreciate transwomen but with fewer consequences.
 
A question I"ve never really considered before.......I've never been interested in women at all so I would likely not be interested in a trans man either but it's never come up.

Along the same lines but different idea, I loathe people who say that someone "isn't really gay" or "not gay enough." What a freaking stupid idea.

You do you. Like who you like and date/sleep with who you want. F the haters.
 
Along the same lines but different idea, I loathe people who say that someone "isn't really gay" or "not gay enough." What a freaking stupid idea.
What is your opinion of gay porn performers (I know it’s just a job for money, etc… but hear me out) who claim to be gay but have taken to having sex with women either for studios or on their own fan sites? Doesn’t that send a message that being a gay man can also mean being sexually attracted to females? Confusing, no? Many continue to identify as gay rather than bisexual further blurring the definition.

I know that when I was young and dealing with my homosexuality, porn was my only access to knowing other gay men existed (I’m from a small town) and now I think their influence has grown due to social media. What does it mean to a struggling young homosexual that “famous“ gay guys they follow online are tweeting about how much they love pussy and they want to film scenes with hot women?
 
What is your opinion of gay porn performers (I know it’s just a job for money, etc… but hear me out) who claim to be gay but have taken to having sex with women either for studios or on their own fan sites? Doesn’t that send a message that being a gay man can also mean being sexually attracted to females? Confusing, no? Many continue to identify as gay rather than bisexual further blurring the definition.

I know that when I was young and dealing with my homosexuality, porn was my only access to knowing other gay men existed (I’m from a small town) and now I think their influence has grown due to social media. What does it mean to a struggling young homosexual that “famous“ gay guys they follow online are tweeting about how much they love pussy and they want to film scenes with hot women?
I completely agree that some performers identify as gay but engage in sexual activities with women, often skipping pornographic studios where they get paid for it. This can create a somewhat confusing image, suggesting that one can be gay, have sex with women, and start a family. It's worth mentioning that using porn actors as examples to argue that one's sexual orientation can change is not very accurate. In Poland, for instance, one of the most well-known cases is Jacek Wrangler, who openly declared himself as gay but performed in heterosexual scenes because he claimed he was told to and could earn more money that way. Later, he had a romantic relationship and married the singer Margaret Whiting.

The couple was strongly criticized for the relationship, and Wrangler was accused of "turning straight" and entering the relationship simply for money. However, Wrangler always considered himself homosexual. "I'm not bisexual and I'm not straight", Wrangler later said. "I'm gay, but I could never live a gay lifestyle, because I'm much too competitive. When I was with a guy I would always want to be better than him: what we were accomplishing, what we were wearing—anything. With a woman you compete like crazy, but coming from different points of view, and as far as I'm concerned, that was doable."- While the argument about competitiveness seems absurd to me, everyone has their own perspective.

Another example is the singer Tom Robinson, who outright denies the existence of bisexuality, which can be both hurtful and somewhat amusing.

Robinson does not identify exclusively as gay. He has had past experiences with women and has asserted that he has always made it clear that he liked both men and women. He now identifies as bisexual, but in the past he used the phrase 'gay', synonymous with 'queer', to encompass the entire LGBT community. He felt the term 'bisexual' was a cop-out.

A longtime supporter and former volunteer of London's Gay Switchboard help-line, it was at a 1982 benefit party for the organisation that Robinson met Sue Brearley, the woman with whom he would eventually live and have two children, and later marry.[2]

In the mid-1990s, when Robinson became a father, the tabloids ran stories about what they deemed as a sexual orientation change, running headlines such as "Britain's Number One Gay in Love with Girl Biker!" (The Sunday People). Robinson continued to identify as a gay man, telling an interviewer for The Guardian: "I have much more sympathy with bisexuals now, but I am absolutely not one."He added, "Our enemies do not draw the distinction between gay and bisexual. I erase my existence because I am bisexual myself, but I prefer romantic, emotional, and sexual relationships exclusively with men. I can only have a sexual relationship with a woman and nothing more.

This is why I sometimes have trouble taking gay-for-pay performers seriously, as well as some performers from the bisexual side of things, like Derek Kage. He once claimed to be bisexual, then, after performing with a woman , stated that he was exploring his sexuality and didn't want labels. However, he later identified as gay and corrected anyone who referred to him as bisexual. In an interview, he even said that the term "pansexual" might fit him better. Sometimes, it's hard for me to take porn actors seriously, regardless of their scenes, whether they are heterosexual, bisexual, transgender, or homosexual.
 
I completely agree that some performers identify as gay but engage in sexual activities with women, often skipping pornographic studios where they get paid for it. This can create a somewhat confusing image, suggesting that one can be gay, have sex with women, and start a family. It's worth mentioning that using porn actors as examples to argue that one's sexual orientation can change is not very accurate. In Poland, for instance, one of the most well-known cases is Jacek Wrangler, who openly declared himself as gay but performed in heterosexual scenes because he claimed he was told to and could earn more money that way. Later, he had a romantic relationship and married the singer Margaret Whiting.

The couple was strongly criticized for the relationship, and Wrangler was accused of "turning straight" and entering the relationship simply for money. However, Wrangler always considered himself homosexual. "I'm not bisexual and I'm not straight", Wrangler later said. "I'm gay, but I could never live a gay lifestyle, because I'm much too competitive. When I was with a guy I would always want to be better than him: what we were accomplishing, what we were wearing—anything. With a woman you compete like crazy, but coming from different points of view, and as far as I'm concerned, that was doable."- While the argument about competitiveness seems absurd to me, everyone has their own perspective.

Another example is the singer Tom Robinson, who outright denies the existence of bisexuality, which can be both hurtful and somewhat amusing.

Robinson does not identify exclusively as gay. He has had past experiences with women and has asserted that he has always made it clear that he liked both men and women. He now identifies as bisexual, but in the past he used the phrase 'gay', synonymous with 'queer', to encompass the entire LGBT community. He felt the term 'bisexual' was a cop-out.

A longtime supporter and former volunteer of London's Gay Switchboard help-line, it was at a 1982 benefit party for the organisation that Robinson met Sue Brearley, the woman with whom he would eventually live and have two children, and later marry.[2]

In the mid-1990s, when Robinson became a father, the tabloids ran stories about what they deemed as a sexual orientation change, running headlines such as "Britain's Number One Gay in Love with Girl Biker!" (The Sunday People). Robinson continued to identify as a gay man, telling an interviewer for The Guardian: "I have much more sympathy with bisexuals now, but I am absolutely not one."He added, "Our enemies do not draw the distinction between gay and bisexual. I erase my existence because I am bisexual myself, but I prefer romantic, emotional, and sexual relationships exclusively with men. I can only have a sexual relationship with a woman and nothing more.

This is why I sometimes have trouble taking gay-for-pay performers seriously, as well as some performers from the bisexual side of things, like Derek Kage. He once claimed to be bisexual, then, after performing with a woman , stated that he was exploring his sexuality and didn't want labels. However, he later identified as gay and corrected anyone who referred to him as bisexual. In an interview, he even said that the term "pansexual" might fit him better. Sometimes, it's hard for me to take porn actors seriously, regardless of their scenes, whether they are heterosexual, bisexual, transgender, or homosexual.
I agree that these performers should not be taken too seriously and I’m embarrassed that I ever had to look to them when I first was dealing with my sexuality, but one can’t deny their influence especially today.
 
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I’ve made a few trans men friends through Grindr. I was very up front with them telling them that I felt I needed to personally know transgender people rather than only hearing and reading the debate about them. They are very sweet and likable and I hope to have a continuing friendship with them both.
One of them I think is cute (although admittedly not completely my type) but he is interested in hooking up with me. He knows it would be my first time and is fine with it. I’ve decided to have him over and see what happens. He is in an open relationship (as am I) so no hearts will be broken if things don’t quite work out.

I’m curious to see how I feel during and after. Will I still consider myself “gay”? Stay tuned… lol
I have since met with my trans friend and it did turn sexual. He did ask if I’d ever been with a woman and I answered honestly no. I think he thought he was in for a training session but I guess I surprised him. After going down on him, he said “this is your first time?” I nodded and he started miming applause. Lol. He guided me inside him and we fucked. I came and was able to give him an orgasm. It was hot. It was different (in the obvious sense) but strangely the same as any of my sexual trust. Hard to explain but I know I’m no different than before. I’m still gay. I can’t say I crave pussy or that sex with women is my next step (god forbid ;)) but I expect I will hook up again with him again sometime.

So as far as gay performers having sex with trans men and still claiming to be gay, I now agree. However, gay performers craving and having sex with women, I still believe they can’t claim to be gay- more accurately they’re bisexual with perhaps a leaning towards men.
 
Sexual orientation is a matter of which sexual characteristics one is attracted to. If a dude is in the habit of having sex with TIFs in part because he likes vagina, then obviously he's not 100% homosexual. On the other hand, if he does so in spite of the vagina, rather because he is attracted to the masculinized features of the TIFs he's having sex with, then it's difficult to see how this shows he's oriented towards the female sex.
 
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This is thread is specifically to hold a (hopefully respectful) discussion about the sexuality of men who identify as gay and also are sexually attracted to transmen. I've peeked into a couple of threads here where debates get triggered and it veers the purpose of the thread off its topic making the experience for those interested in the topic poor. So, have at it.

Are gay men who sleep with and/or desire to sleep with transmen 100% gay or do they fall somewhere else on the Kinsey scale?

Play nice. :no_mouth:
I id straight and my trans gf agrees even though I love ❤️ sucking her cock and I’ve bottomed too so nah
 
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I have zero problem calling myself gay and being attracted to some transmen.

And when I say some I mean because not every transman turns me on just like not every cis man turns me on. I tend to be attracted to the more clean cut preppy look. with some lean muscle thrown in. Sean Cody basically.

I've had sex with a transman and it was absolutely mind blowing - in the end a vagina can grab onto and hold a dick pretty well and its a sensation that is incredible when done right.

Does it make me feel less gay for my partner to have a "bonus hole"? Absolutely not when it comes to the sex of it all its hot AF for me.

Would I consider a long term monogamous relationship with a trans guy...maybe but I think I would miss dick a little too much - a long term open relationship with a transman I loved? Almost definitely.

No idea if any of this comes off offensive - I can't imagine it would - I was simply being open and honest.

Good thread.
 
I have zero problem calling myself gay and being attracted to some transmen.

And when I say some I mean because not every transman turns me on just like not every cis man turns me on. I tend to be attracted to the more clean cut preppy look. with some lean muscle thrown in. Sean Cody basically.

I've had sex with a transman and it was absolutely mind blowing - in the end a vagina can grab onto and hold a dick pretty well and its a sensation that is incredible when done right.

Does it make me feel less gay for my partner to have a "bonus hole"? Absolutely not when it comes to the sex of it all its hot AF for me.

Would I consider a long term monogamous relationship with a trans guy...maybe but I think I would miss dick a little too much - an long term open relationship with a transman I loved? Almost definitely.

No ide if any of this comes off offensive - I was just being open and honest and how I feel re: trans men.

Good thread.
I could have written this; spot on IMO.

I'm attracted to men. Always have been. I don't ever recall seeing any man's genitals before I saw him and found him attractive and wanted to get busy with him.

I imagine if I were single, and found myself attracted to a trans guy, I would still be attracted, regardless of what is between his legs.

Because IMO, genitals aren't what makes a man a man. :)
 
I have zero problem calling myself gay and being attracted to some transmen.

And when I say some I mean because not every transman turns me on just like not every cis man turns me on. I tend to be attracted to the more clean cut preppy look. with some lean muscle thrown in. Sean Cody basically.

I've had sex with a transman and it was absolutely mind blowing - in the end a vagina can grab onto and hold a dick pretty well and its a sensation that is incredible when done right.

Does it make me feel less gay for my partner to have a "bonus hole"? Absolutely not when it comes to the sex of it all its hot AF for me.

Would I consider a long term monogamous relationship with a trans guy...maybe but I think I would miss dick a little too much - an long term open relationship with a transman I loved? Almost definitely.

No ide if any of this comes off offensive - I was just being open and honest and how I feel re: trans men.

Good thread.
I enjoyed fucking my trans guy friend but to be honest I can’t say the vagina felt that special or particularly mind blowing. I didn’t notice any unique gripping sensations and my friend insisted I did do it right lol.

I guess I don’t understand the talk that borders on saying penis in vagina sex works so spectacularly well it’s how nature intended sex to be. Bullocks to that!
 
I enjoyed fucking my trans guy friend but to be honest I can’t say the vagina felt that special or particularly mind blowing. I didn’t notice any unique gripping sensations and my friend insisted I did do it right lol.

I guess I don’t understand the talk that borders on saying penis in vagina sex works so spectacularly well it’s how nature intended sex to be. Bullocks to that!
When I said done right I was talking not about you but your partner.

From pure mechanics if someones pelvic floor is strong, then a vagina will usually grip the shaft tighter and be wetter than an anus, simply because of the musculature and natural lubrication ability. Contractions in the vagina are usually felt more strongly because of the way the muscles are aligned.

It really has nothing to do with some preachy how nature intended it - its just human physiology.

For some people anal will feel better - its not a one size fits all just a more likely to be kind of situation.
 
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On the other hand, if he does so in spite of the vagina, rather because he is attracted to the masculinized features of the TIFs he's having sex with, then it's difficult to see how this shows he's oriented towards the female sex.

Only if one limits the definition of female to only include female secondary sex characteristics. A masculinized female is still a female. If the presence of female primary sex characteristics (i.e. a vagina) isn't a turn off, then technically, that gay man is also oriented toward the female sex "with conditions" (i.e. a female that looks like a male). Because, again, a masculinized female is still a female. Even in the animal kingdom.

 
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