Gay or Nah?

[006]

When I said done right I was talking not about you but your partner.

From pure mechanics if someones pelvic floor is strong, then a vagina will usually grip the shaft tighter and be wetter than an anus, simply because of the musculature and natural lubrication ability. Contractions in the vagina are usually felt more strongly because of the way the muscles are aligned.

It really has nothing to do with some preachy how nature intended it - its just human physiology.

For some people anal will feel better - it’s not a one size fits all just a more likely to be kind of situation.

I must fall in the anal feels better (and tighter) camp. I will say however with the trans guy we didn’t need lube and there wasn’t any cleanliness issues which were pluses I guess.

 

[malakos]

Only if one limits the definition of female to only include female secondary sex characteristics. A masculinized female is still a female. If the presence of female primary sex characteristics (i.e. a vagina) isn't a turn off, then technically, that gay man is also oriented toward the female sex "with conditions" (i.e. a female that looks like a male). Because, again, a masculinized female is still a female. Even in the animal kingdom.

I agree that "transitioning" doesn't basically change one's sex.

I don't agree that homosexuality is premised on being turned off by female sex characteristics. One who is solely turned on by male sex characteristics and just indifferent to female sex characteristics is entirely homosexual, the way I would define 'homosexual'.

It seems to me that there is an objective dimension of sexual orientation, and also a subjective dimension. I took the OP as asking about subjective dimension. Concerning the objective dimension, I would say you are entirely right; a male person who has sex with a female person, even if the latter has a largely masculinized body, is engaging in a heterosexual act. Subjectively, with respect to the question of orientation, if the male person is attracted purely by the masculinized sex characteristics of the female person, and simply "makes do with" the primary, still female, sex characteristics, I maintain that this does not reveal that the male person is bisexually oriented, because it doesn't show any draw to female sex characteristics.

 

[Chiballana]

Only if one limits the definition of female to only include female secondary sex characteristics. A masculinized female is still a female. If the presence of female primary sex characteristics (i.e. a vagina) isn't a turn off, then technically, that gay man is also oriented toward the female sex "with conditions" (i.e. a female that looks like a male). Because, again, a masculinized female is still a female. Even in the animal kingdom.

What about a post op trans man? That would he homosexual

 

[AllieHeidi]

What about a post op trans man? That would he homosexual

No it wouldn't. You can't change biological sex. A post op trans man is also still biologically female. Our sex is encoded into our DNA and determined at the moment of conception. Until science figures out how to change DNA post birth, human beings will always be the biological sex we were born as.

 

[PutItInHere691]

About a year ago. I went to the bar ( gay one that is ) and I met this sexy younger man .. his eyes had me from the word .. go

after a while .. the person he was with was leaving but he didn’t want to leave so I said I’d take him home when he was ready .. ..

couple hours later he decided it was time to go home .. so I was like ok… let’s go..

I had drank a couple beers over the time I was there so I wasn’t drunk at all..

he gets a text and it was his friend.. bitching about why he wasn’t home…. He replied said he was on his way .. and next thing I know it was text sent back and forth fast .. and he says fuck it.. turned off his phone..

he says he needed a ride to his sisters house as his room mate was being a dick.. I asked where to.. he says it’s about a 30 minute drive.. I was like ok.. and I said we can go there or to my place and he can crash there for the night or even a few days if needed ..

He was like.. you don’t mind .. I said no.. that if I did I wouldn’t have suggested it …

we got to my place and relaxed and everything talked and it was me that leaned over and kissed him.. he kind of shy’s away a little and I said I was sorry ..


he says he was sorry .. I asked him why.. he tells me “ about himself” — I was like so.. it didn’t change the fact I liked him for who he was ..

I told him I was more into cuddling and kissing and then if things went further then so be it ….

He went as far as wanting to go below the waist .. .. I was like…it was up to him…( I think he was shocked I was still calling him a him and not a her )

I guess that’s the thing about being a little bit bisexual.. so it didn’t bother me..
If I wanted fucked I’d go buy a strap on and let her or any other woman fuck me with it ..

The main thing I was worried about was his reaction to my cock and if he was going to want to be fucked as he was smaller framed in body than me .

He didn’t waste any time going down on my cock that’s for sure.. ..

if any of this doesn’t meet to any of you guys approval .. there’s one thing I got to say .. it’s my life.. and I’m not here to please you all or anyone else unless you’re naked and in my bed hehe

 

[006]

About a year ago. I went to the bar ( gay one that is ) and I met this sexy younger man .. his eyes had me from the word .. go

after a while .. the person he was with was leaving but he didn’t want to leave so I said I’d take him home when he was ready .. ..

couple hours later he decided it was time to go home .. so I was like ok… let’s go..

I had drank a couple beers over the time I was there so I wasn’t drunk at all..

he gets a text and it was his friend.. bitching about why he wasn’t home…. He replied said he was on his way .. and next thing I know it was text sent back and forth fast .. and he says fuck it.. turned off his phone..

he says he needed a ride to his sisters house as his room mate was being a dick.. I asked where to.. he says it’s about a 30 minute drive.. I was like ok.. and I said we can go there or to my place and he can crash there for the night or even a few days if needed ..

He was like.. you don’t mind .. I said no.. that if I did I wouldn’t have suggested it …

we got to my place and relaxed and everything talked and it was me that leaned over and kissed him.. he kind of shy’s away a little and I said I was sorry ..


he says he was sorry .. I asked him why.. he tells me “ about himself” — I was like so.. it didn’t change the fact I liked him for who he was ..

I told him I was more into cuddling and kissing and then if things went further then so be it ….

He went as far as wanting to go below the waist .. .. I was like…it was up to him…( I think he was shocked I was still calling him a him and not a her )

I guess that’s the thing about being a little bit bisexual.. so it didn’t bother me..
If I wanted fucked I’d go buy a strap on and let her or any other woman fuck me with it ..

The main thing I was worried about was his reaction to my cock and if he was going to want to be fucked as he was smaller framed in body than me .

He didn’t waste any time going down on my cock that’s for sure.. ..

if any of this doesn’t meet to any of you guys approval .. there’s one thing I got to say .. it’s my life.. and I’m not here to please you all or anyone else unless you’re naked and in my bed hehe

You’re bisexual, so…

 

[Chiballana]

No it wouldn't. You can't change biological sex. A post op trans man is also still biologically female. Our sex is encoded into our DNA and determined at the moment of conception. Until science figures out how to change DNA post birth, human beings will always be the biological sex we were born as.

You cannot change your genetics but you can change your phenotype. It Is ridiculous to not consider it homosexual. If a man has sex with a woman with Swyer Syndrome or Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (both XY) would would you consider it homosexual?

 

[AllieHeidi]

You cannot change your genetics but you can change your phenotype. It Is ridiculous to not consider it homosexual.

Homo = same

Sexual = referring to biological sex and the reproductive organs

It is scientifically inaccurate to refer to it as homosexual.

If a man has sex with a woman with Swyer Syndrome or Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (both XY) would would you consider it homosexual?

Bringing up a genetic deformity doesn't suddenly change the fact that a biological female and biological male who developed normally from both a chromosomal and gonadal level is a heterosexual couple. So, I'm not entirely sure why you have decided to include this (medically rare) scenario in this discussion.

 

[Chiballana]

Homo = same

Sexual = referring to biological sex and the reproductive organs

It is scientifically inaccurate to refer to it as homosexual.



Bringing up a genetic deformity doesn't suddenly change the fact that a biological female and biological male who developed normally from both a chromosomal and gonadal level is a heterosexual couple. So, I'm not entirely sure why you have decided to include this (medically rare) scenario in this discussion.

I brought it up because there Is a clear difference betweek phenotype and genotype. I wad trying to highlight how ridiculous it Is to call it heterosexual considering the phenotype. Both Swyer and CAIS have male chromosomes and white Swyer has no gonads CAIS has testes, I would be interested in how you would classify these examples that show that sex Is not binary.

 

[AllieHeidi]

sex Is not binary.

Yes it is. Under normal, homeostatic circumstances, sex absolutely is binary. If it weren't binary, the ailments you mentioned wouldn't be considered genetic abnormalities in the first place.

We don't suddenly state that humans are not a bipedal species because some human beings are born without both legs. Exceptions are never the rule.

Moreover, you are bringing up congenital disorders that occur naturally without medical intervention which is an entirely different situation from that being discussed in this topic.

 

[Chiballana]

Yes it is. Under normal, homeostatic circumstances, sex absolutely is binary. If it weren't binary, the ailments you mentioned wouldn't be considered genetic abnormalities in the first place.

We don't suddenly state that humans are not a bipedal species because some human beings are born without both legs. Exceptions are never the rule.

Moreover, you are bringing up congenital disorders that occur naturally without medical intervention which is an entirely different situation from that being discussed in this topic.

Trans Is also an exception, humans are not alwayd bipedal. But it does have to do with this topic, apparently the difference for you Is that trans requires medical intervention, which would just make it an ontological issue for you and not a biological one. It's as ridiculous as saying that a man and a CAIS woman having sex is homosexual because she Is forever XY.

 

[AllieHeidi]

Trans Is also an exception

And, as stated previously, the exception is not the rule.

humans are not alwayd bipedal.

Humans, specifically primates, are a biped species.

apparently the difference for you Is that trans requires medical intervention, which would just make it an ontological issue for you and not a biological one.

The difference is that trans people, unless otherwise specified, do not have the specific genetic abnormalities you are inserting into this discussion. In fact, the majority of trans people go through the normal stages of human sexual development (i.e. males have XY chromosomes and develop fully functional male reproductive organs, females have XX chromosomes and develop fully functional female reproductive organs).

It's as ridiculous as saying that a man and a CAIS woman having sex is homosexual because she Is forever XY.

To humor you, it's technically not a homosexual nor a heterosexual encounter due to the genetic deformity of the intersex partner. That said, it's ridiculous to rule out biology entirely with regards to sexual orientation in favor of phenotype alone.

 

[Chiballana]

And, as stated previously, the exception is not the rule.



Humans, specifically primates, are a biped species.



The difference is that trans people, unless otherwise specified, do not have the specific genetic abnormalities you are inserting into this discussion. In fact, the majority of trans people go through the normal stages of human sexual development (i.e. males have XY chromosomes and develop fully functional male reproductive organs, females have XX chromosomes and develop fully functional female reproductive organs).



To humor you, it's technically not a homosexual nor a heterosexual encounter due to the genetic deformity of the intersex partner. That said, it's ridiculous to rule out biology entirely with regards to sexual orientation in favor of phenotype alone.

How can it not be either homosexual or heterosexual when they do have a genetic sex? Like trans people, their phenotype does not match their genotype. Actually, sexual orientation only makes Sense and depends on phenotype, we are not attracted to genotype and it Is in fact irrelevant to sexual attraction. One Is attracted to what our Senses perceive, how the other person looks, feels, sounds, gñtastes and smells, not their invisible chromosomes.

 

[AllieHeidi]

How can it not be either homosexual or heterosexual when they do have a genetic sex?

Because that situation involves a naturally intersex individual. Trans people are not intersex. You are comparing apples to oranges.

not their invisible chromosomes.

I already made it clear earlier in the thread that initial attraction is andro/gynosexual in nature. There are many layers to attraction, however, and attraction can be lost for various reasons.

It stands to reason that someone 100% attracted to males would desire 100% of the same. Trans men are, technically, 100% female. There is no getting around that and for 100% gay men and straight women is an understandable deal breaker and does not mean they are de-legitimizing someone else's identity or being hateful.

Buck Angel actually did a video on this a couple of weeks ago regarding this specific topic, and honestly I feel as a trans man (as well as adult film performer) he has more authority to elaborate on this and does so very well.

 

[Chiballana]

Because that situation involves a naturally intersex individual. Trans people are not intersex. You are comparing apples to oranges.



I already made it clear earlier in the thread that initial attraction is andro/gynosexual in nature. There are many layers to attraction, however, and attraction can be lost for various reasons.

It stands to reason that someone 100% attracted to males would desire 100% of the same. Trans men are, technically, 100% female. There is no getting around that and for 100% gay men and straight women is an understandable deal breaker and does not mean they are de-legitimizing someone else's identity or being hateful.

Buck Angel actually did a video on this a couple of weeks ago regarding this specific topic, and honestly I feel as a trans man (as well as adult film performer) he has more authority to elaborate on this and does so very well.

They are not apples to oranges. A post op trans woman who transitioned before puberty Is phenotypically the same as a CAIS woman. A trans man who has transitioned Is not 100% female seeing as they are phenotypically male. For you to say that no 100% gay Man would date a fully transitioned trans man IS delegitimizing trans people and borderline transphobic. Buck Angel is a very controversial figure in the trans community because of His alliance with transphobic feminists and isn't even fully transitioned, I wouldn't set him as an example, most ftm people loathe him.

 

[Chiballana]

Because that situation involves a naturally intersex individual. Trans people are not intersex. You are comparing apples to oranges.



I already made it clear earlier in the thread that initial attraction is andro/gynosexual in nature. There are many layers to attraction, however, and attraction can be lost for various reasons.

It stands to reason that someone 100% attracted to males would desire 100% of the same. Trans men are, technically, 100% female. There is no getting around that and for 100% gay men and straight women is an understandable deal breaker and does not mean they are de-legitimizing someone else's identity or being hateful.

Buck Angel actually did a video on this a couple of weeks ago regarding this specific topic, and honestly I feel as a trans man (as well as adult film performer) he has more authority to elaborate on this and does so very well.

Those individuals are genetically male, a fully transitioned trans person has altered their phenotype in such a manner that they have rendered themselves not belonging to their sex of birth anymore. They become intersex by medical means, because their phenotype doesn't match their genotype.

 

[AllieHeidi]

A trans man who has transitioned Is not 100% female seeing as they are phenotypically male.

What is a male?

For you to say that no 100% gay Man would date a fully transitioned trans man IS delegitimizing trans people and borderline transphobic.

It is not possible to change sex. 100% gay men are 100% same-sex attracted. Trans men are the opposite sex (female).

Buck Angel is a very controversial figure in the trans community because he tells the truth by addressing the giant naked emperor-sized elephant in the room.

FTFY

 

[Chiballana]

What is a male?



It is not possible to change sex. 100% gay men are 100% same-sex attracted. Trans men are the opposite sex (female).



FTFY

You know what a male phenotype Is. It's not possible to change your genotype but you can change your phenotype. A fully transitioned trans man doesn't have any female traits remaining. Your issues with trans people are not based on biology, but on ontology. Buck Angel Is also against non binary people and child transitioning. He also has a vagina and has a helium voice, so of course no gay Man wants him.

 

[AllieHeidi]

You know what a male phenotype Is.

Again, what is a male? Your argument is essentially that appearing male is the same as actually being male. Therefore, it is you who is arguing from an ontological perspective instead of biological. Not me.

 

[AllieHeidi]

Buck Angel Is also against non binary people and child transitioning.

He's not against non-binary people, he disagrees that being non-binary is the same as being a trans person who has been diagnosed with gender dysphoria by medical professionals.

He also has a vagina and has a helium voice, so of course no gay Man wants him.