Nowadays, everybody talks about female empowerment (I don't desagree), but in BL series context we have to talk about MALE empowerment

[blandporn]

The asian media (music, movies, series, etc.) has spread around the world because of female audience. The beginning was the kpop gender, followed by the dramas and now we have the Boys Love phenomenon. The last one is so special because introduced homoeroticism as an element of asian media (this continent is always portrayed in western media as a very conservative and anti-LGBT place). When we talk about LGBT movies/series, most of people automatically think about LGBT people making this content for other LGBT people watch it. When we study the BL gender, we come across a fucking strange case: STRAIGHT women making gay content for other STRAIGHT women watch it. In other words, apparently all that comes from countries like China, Japan, South Korea, Thailand and Taiwan is only for the female audience and don't concert about the male audience in no time (even if the male audience were gay as the content). So, the asian gay relationships are being represented and aren't being represented, at the same time. To be clearer, what's the point of making such series about gay couples if it's only for pleasure and fetish of straight women? Where does the gay public come in? Even the asian gay content is for female appreciation, even though they already have kpop and straight drama for them watch. When we see the fanmeetings with BL actors around the world and almost all of the guests are girls, we naturally think "Something is wrong".

What disappoints me is this: BL, as a gender that has introduced the homoerotic theme in asian culture, should be revolutionary in fact, but we can see the exact opposite - a gender where there are a lot of males kissing and fucking each other only to give pleasure for women, their opposite sex. It's the most conservative, reactionary and straight thing.

I go further: a very important series like KinnPorsche, that bring a lof of new elements to the BL world, should have much more gay audience that had. I was searching for tweets from people who watched this BL and about 90% of them were women. Again, I ask by myself: "Where was the gay public when KinnPorsche was released? Something is wrong!"

Now, you understand the title of this thread. It's about how we can insert the gay public in asian BL media!

 

[delvin_vv]

the problem is that gay media appeal to a lot of people due to its fetishization potential
lgbt people make barely 10~ of society and a good chunk of them aren't interested in romance or gay men for that matter so unfortunately gay media will always be cursed with having a mostly straight audience just like cough cough dare i say DRAG ....

also let's not forget that a good amount of writers go by female author names in order to avoid the rampant homophobia in these societies since most of them are anonymous and we dont actually know who they are (still they are a minority)

so since we can't gatekeep our media from straight people the next best option is to prevent fetishization or at least minimize it by not having sex scenes (we can have sex scenes as long as they arent over 1min long no need to turn it to porn ) and avoiding associating with the bl genre good examples are

bannana fish (anime)
devil may cry (anime)
the summer hikaru died (manga)

all tell queer stories but the characters' romance isnt the focus of the plot which bores the fetishizers but interns gives the works a solid fanbase that is pretty diverse and not just mostly women watching to goon on it

another good example is heartstopper it's too woke for the average fetishizer to enjoy because it discusses some serious social justice topics to the point where it makes it inappropriate to thirst after the characters and whoever chooses to ( they exist) will be pretty much be humiliated ESPECIALLY women because that shit is not normalized in the west ....yet

speaking of KinnPorsche the main leads are Asian men who are already fetishized on their own so let alone when they play gay roles i think the asian market stopping the whole CEO , MAFIA , reincarnation BS will be a good first step but tbh i think BL fetish is too engrained there that its mission impossible unless they decide to include lesbians & trans people etc to appeal to the lgbt audience *


l



i get your frustration tho as bl/yaoi enjoyer who is a cis male it's really hard to find someone who shares my admiration for the genre

the sad part is that these medias helped me cope A TON in my teens so it makes me sad to find out that they were mostly women masturbation material

still some are well written and are a good form of escapism better than poppers

 

[neeko-bay]

Western/European BL-themed shows/movies have predominantly female audience as well. Think of "Call me by my name", Elite, Heartstopper, Young Royals, "Red, White & Royal Blue" etc. All of them have more female audience than male.

 

[jlkelong]

The way I don't give a fuck

 

[Arkheux]

The way I don't give a fuck

but you cared enough to comment

 

[billybones]

Do you guys have links to examples of the kind of stories you’re talking about?

 

[blandporn]

Do you guys have links to examples of the kind of stories you’re talking about?

Just go to X (now banned in Brazil) and search about any tweets talking about any BL series. Certainly the most of posts that you can find were made by women. And the worst: some BL profiles have the nick "Wife of [some BL actor]. It means that in the back the gay theme doesn't care at all, because the actors has to date with these girls who watch BL. To mean: a gay couple (the both male actors) turns in a straight couple (the male actor and the fujoshi fan). It's a total shame for the gay movement

 

[blandporn]

The way I don't give a fuck

It's simple, my friend, make other thread much better than mine. I'm sure that everyone in the LPSG would follow and reply your topic with pleasure. They certainly will "give you a fuck"

 

[Black TinTin]

Do you guys have links to examples of the kind of stories you’re talking about?

Not only was this story written by a woman but has a female fanbase

 

[Black TinTin]

BL is not meant for homo men. It is meant for hetero women. Men can enjoy it but the intended audience is women.

Homo men do have their own genre. It is called Bara. The reason why it is not as visible as BL is because, as someone else said, there is a small gay population. Bara does not really attract a female audience. Even though they both focus on male on male relationships, the story and characters are completely different. One is stereotypical(BL) and one is idealistic(Bara). Both are fantasy though. How I see it :: BL is written by heterosexual females on how they THINK male on male relationships are. Bara is written by homosexual males on how they WISH male on male relationships were.

 

[blandporn]

BL is not meant for homo men. It is meant for hetero women. Men can enjoy it but the intended audience is women.

Homo men do have their own genre. It is called Bara. The reason why it is not as visible as BL is because, as someone else said, there is a small gay population. Bara does not really attract a female audience. Even though they both focus on male on male relationships, the story and characters are completely different. One is stereotypical(BL) and one is idealistic(Bara). Both are fantasy though. How I see it :: BL is written by heterosexual females on how they THINK male on male relationships are. Bara is written by homosexual males on how they WISH male on male relationships were.

BL is not meant for homo men

This information I already knew. And this topic is precisely about this problem, with a very critical view.

Homo men do have their own genre. It is called Bara.

When you say "yaoi" or "bara", you're talking about the Japanese context, that include mainly mangas and animes. When we say "BL", we're talking about a asian gender in general, that usually include Chinese, Thai (mainly) and Korean web-series. And even considering the fact that originally BL means a "women-to-women" gender, nowadays this acronym is often used in EVERY serie/movie with presents gay relationships, even the western productions. So, Boys Love or BL doesn't have the same meaning that had in 90s and 2000s, when that gender wasn't well-known like now. You will not find a gay fan of BLs saying: "I like bara", but they will say "I like BL".

In any case, the fujoshi phenomenon should be more criticized by the LGBT activists (especially by the gay side). Instead of talking about neutral language, adding a new letter to the LGBT acronym every single day, demonizing the "white cis gay man" or other same shits, the LGBT influencers should criticize the fetish culture on straight society. It's because the fujoshis are turning, day after day, the gay demands (mainly about empowerment and visibility) into a straight women demand, into a voyeur demand for women.

A good step for solve this problem is abolish BLs with plots like "2gether", "Tonhon Chonlatee", "TharnType", "Bad Buddy" and others. These series have in common the same plot: "a straight man who had accidentally fall in love with other man [usually his friend or his enemy]". Instead of that, they should make a plot where both of characters were gay from the beginning and without any stereotypes. Of course, the gay male public will not come from day to night, but it's a good way to discipline the feminine public. Dead Friends Forever, for example, followed this scheme.

 

[repof]

BL is not meant for homo men. It is meant for hetero women. Men can enjoy it but the intended audience is women.

Homo men do have their own genre. It is called Bara. The reason why it is not as visible as BL is because, as someone else said, there is a small gay population. Bara does not really attract a female audience. Even though they both focus on male on male relationships, the story and characters are completely different. One is stereotypical(BL) and one is idealistic(Bara). Both are fantasy though. How I see it :: BL is written by heterosexual females on how they THINK male on male relationships are. Bara is written by homosexual males on how they WISH male on male relationships were.

I think this is somewhat but not entirely correct.

A more accurate word for what you are describing for the counterpart of "bara" is "yaoi"*. Both are Japanese terms (although you are unlikely to find too many Japanese people who understand them unless they are already yaoi/bara fans), and as far as I understand, "bara" mostly refers to graphic novels and art whereas "yaoi" can extend beyond? But it does have a tendency to refer to Japanese works more often than foreign works. In any case, both categories are pretty niche and even "bara" can be referred to as "yaoi" because it's just not very known outside of gay art circles.

BL as a term is formed from English, and therefore has much wider application regardless of country of origin or form of work (graphic novel, fanfic, book, series, movie, etc.). Perhaps because of this more open application, it also is more open to creativity and is a bit less structured in the narrative and relationships than "yaoi" and "bara." There is certainly *tendency* for BL to be written by women for women, as many of the "classic" works derive from female-written fics or even old-school "yaoi" manga from Japan, and it makes sense given that straight (or bi) women make up a much larger paying market than gay people -- BUT the current BL industry is in a state of so much potential right now, and there are gay writers and directors. There are also gay viewers giving input back to the writers, shows, and production companies, and from around 2016 to now, there has been a lot of development in the way to tell a story and write compelling characters in a BL.

Writers learn from research, from other writers, and from the general industry in order to tell a more fulfilling story. Of course, you may miss out on a lot of that if you only watch the most numerically popular shows (like "2gether"), but even some of the traditionally structured BL shows like "Bad Buddy" will include elements to push the BL status quo forward into a slightly better place (although I do love the rough, experimental nature of the genre and hope that continues to stay a part of it).

*Note: not sure if "yaoi" is an older or younger term than "BL," but my point is that I don't think there is a frame of reference for "BL vs Bara" -- the counterpart of "bara" is "yaoi." BL is not an exclusive term to "bara" or "LGBT drama."

EDIT: Wow, you can tell from how off the rails I went how much I love that this genre exists, even when individual works can be extremely hit or miss. (I simply don't watch shows where the leads are written too much like a straight couple)

 

[Jordobroomz]

Any good bara recommendations

 

[nzh]

Homo men do have their own genre. It is called Bara.

lol let me stop you right there, because no.

I hate when everyone says that Bara is the gender for gay men. It isn't. Bara is a genre largely intended for gay men yes, but practically 99% of the time it's pornography of fat men (or men with very voluptuous bellies) and and a lot of body hair, even if they're Asian.
It's mostly a fetish with specific body types.

Saying that anything Bara is more appropriate for "homo men" than, say, Last Twilight, I Told Sunset About you, Moonlight Chicken, and others, is ignorant to say the least.


BL is a genre born for a female audience, sure. But that doesn't take away from the fact that it gives place to genuinely gay art, and is really empowering for the community.

 

[Arkheux]

lol let me stop you right there, because no.

I hate when everyone says that Bara is the gender for gay men. It isn't. Bara is a genre largely intended for gay men yes, but practically 99% of the time it's pornography of fat men (or men with very voluptuous bellies) and and a lot of body hair, even if they're Asian.
It's mostly a fetish with specific body types.

Saying that anything Bara is more appropriate for "homo men" than, say, Last Twilight, I Told Sunset About you, Moonlight Chicken, and others, is ignorant to say the least.


BL is a genre born for a female audience, sure. But that doesn't take away from the fact that it gives place to genuinely gay art, and is really empowering for the community.

Bara can vary in visual style and plot, but typically features masculine men with varying degrees of muscle, body fat, and body hair, akin to bear or bodybuilding culture. While bara is typically pornographic, the genre has also depicted romantic and autobiographical subject material, as it acknowledges the varied reactions to homosexuality in modern Japan.

 

[nzh]

Bara can vary in visual style and plot, but typically features masculine men with varying degrees of muscle, body fat, and body hair, akin to bear or bodybuilding culture. While bara is typically pornographic, the genre has also depicted romantic and autobiographical subject material, as it acknowledges the varied reactions to homosexuality in modern Japan.

Yes, you confirm what I said.
The fact that it is possible that in bara there may be romantic or autiobiographical stories doesn't change my argument. It's mostly porn (as you said) about a specific body type (as you said) disproportionately represented. Especially considering they are usually Asian.

To repeat myself, I strongly disagree with them calling bara “the gender for homo men”. It is not.

 

[blandporn]

Yes, you confirm what I said.
The fact that it is possible that in bara there may be romantic or autiobiographical stories doesn't change my argument. It's mostly porn (as you said) about a specific body type (as you said) disproportionately represented. Especially considering they are usually Asian.

To repeat myself, I strongly disagree with them calling bara “the gender for homo men”. It is not.

Moreover BL just means "boys love", not "boys love for girls watch", so the public should be miscellaneous. And the main point as you said: Bara is about fat and bear men. The gay content is not limited to these body types, not everyone enjoy bears. Yaoi and bara refer mainly to manga/anime, not web-series

 

[wwydiwyokshsywg]

all i know is girls that like gays a lil too much are weird

 

[jlkelong]

but you cared enough to comment

Doesn't take much. A quick click and go

 

[Crush33]

It also has something to do with straight men not treating their own women right. So they fantasize about how men in love would treat men, since they don't even treat their women right. I'd say that alot of BL doesn't have sex -though its started to change with even nudity being shown now- but rather focuses on the emotional aspect, as women would rather watch BL than gay porn. These SEA countries have strict heirarchies and women in the past and still in the present aren't treated well in their society. Its sad that BL had to be the method for them to find comfort, ofc there's some who strictly view it as a fetish, just like males do with lesbian porn.

BL's also don't necessarily resonate with real gay life. This is where queer movies/drama come in. Many BL fans don't watch queer movies but with the rise in popularity of content like "Love in the Big city, our name engraved herein" and many more things have started to change. In korea itself many queer people did go to see love in the big city movie version. I still do appreciate the women though, its because gay people alone wouldn't have been able to bring exposure to these films and series.

With that being said I don't think gay people are very interested in watching gay dramas. Some are already living in one and some find it too fictional and cringe(which is true to an extent). I guess the only answer is to maybe make more queer focused dramas rather than BL.