PLEASE educate me, conflicted about trans topic.

[deleted15488391]

Hi fam,

I'm a gay man in my 20s. I grew up in a very small town surrounded by closed minded people, so when I got the chance to escape that hell I did and became as open, embracing and accepting as I could.

Moving to a major city for school I finally accepted myself and my mental health improved. I was very lucky to meet and become friends with a few trans classmates whom I never really thought like "oh they are trans or oh their pronouns are they/them" I just saw them as people. Having said that I always used their pronouns to talk to them/about them and I am aware of the inequalities that exist in the system against trans people. (What I mean is that I never thought being trans was anything abnormal, even though I grew up hearing that/ I also heard that about gay people)

I also grew up in a place where trans people are treated really badly and are discriminated against, and because of that a lot of them can't get jobs or a proper education and they end up working in prostitution, which caused the ignorant people of the town attack them even more.

I support trans people, I want them to have the same rights, liberties and safety to live their lives. I don't mean this in a condescending way. I'm just saying that: as a gay man in 2022 I am very lucky that other people fought for me in the past so that at least now there are a few cities where I can get married, love, hold someones hand without fear etc. I want that to be a universal right to trans people as well (when I read this aloud it still sounds bad but I hope I am explaining myself)

However, I've been conflicted about a few things that came up recently...

Lately I've been reading and talking to a few trans people about blurring them wanting to legally remove line between the definitions of trans woman and biological woman, trans man and biological man to just woman and man.

I believe trans women are indeed women and trans men are indeed men, but I feel conflicted about saying that trans women/men are the same biologically as biological women and men. I think one can be a woman without being born with a vagina, a man without a penis but to be biologically something is different (in my opinion) And it's been a topic of dicussion particularly in the sports field lately, if they should let trans women compete against biological women, etc.

I think we should all absolutely have the exact same rights, I just feel conflicted about that topic. I hope someone can educate me on it because I want to help educate the people around me too. The violence against trans people need to stop, the inequaities need to stop, the discrimination need to stop because it still exists even withint the LGBTQ community.

Please feel free to drag my ignorance haha, just please know that this message doesn't come from a place of hate, but of ignorance. And that I never want to make anyone feel the way other people made me feel in the past for being gay.

 

[tgirlsrgreat]

I think you are mostly on target, but overanalyzing it. I am not trans, but the love of my life is. she is as much a woman as anyone I have ever met (just happens to have a (very functional) penis). she may be different but I don't know. she does not shy away from her biological difference, but still all woman. to the point she had to do some blood work and asked for the psa (prostate check ) test to be run. the tech said, baby you don't need that! she just smiled and said, well actually I do, I'm trans. the tech was great and just smiled and said, well huh!

 

[deleted6505551]

My positions on the subjects you are asking about are wildly unpopular with a great many trans people. First, I really oppose labels. I prefer to look at each person as an individual rather than a part of a group. Knowing that you can understand that I see absolutely no need for an infinite list of made up pronouns. I will, out of respect. I hate when people feel nervous about such things when talking to me and these days many, if not most, are.

I take no offense to being referred to as trans or trans fem to be specific. It warms my heart when anyone uses feminine descriptors when talking to or about me though. However, no matter how much I wish I could, I cannot become pregnant. Parts are parts and all the wishing in the world will not change the basic biological differences between myself and a person born female.

Besides there is a part of me that truly enjoys being different.

 

[Asstastic87]

I would just say more generally, be careful about being "educated" on a topic. We will all invariably have different opinions and it's great to hear from people who have different perspectives as a way to formulate your own views. However if you don't agree with something you hear or don't feel comfortable with certain narratives; that does not mean you are uneducated. This is because those narratives are vastly different depending on where you are, as you have seen. A closed minded homophobic community would want to "educate" you as well. Just because a community isn't closed minded in that regard doesn't mean they mesh with your own views on every topic. As long as you aren't being a dick to someone, then no harm done. Please be your own person.

Not trans here, but I agree with your point. If trans people are biologically the gender they identify with, there would be no transitions in appearance, name, social settings, etc. There would be no T in LGBT and there would be no need for laws to protect trans individuals. It is also anti-science and dangerous. A trans man can still get ovarian cancer and a trans woman can get prostate cancer. That needs to be screened for them for their health. They also have special considerations if they begin hormones. Perhaps stating trans people are mentally biologically the gender they identify is a valid statement, but only erases their issues and background to state there is truly no difference between a trans experience and a cis experience.

 

[daddysgirl04]

Hello! Trans fem person here. I think the main issue here is not that people are trying to argue for removing the label of transness at all (this would be counterproductive to our struggle for rights and would just make everything more confusing to talk about). The main thing for me is the wording and the weight that the word “biological” holds for many of us. A lot of times we’re told that “biological man means you’re a man period” which is pretty obviously transphobic. However, no one is truly trying to deny the fact that we may have literally different organs than some of our cis peers. Thats why typically people might use “assigned male/female at birth” (also shortened to AMAB and AFAB) instead as a shorthand. This tends to be fine because it sticks with the fact that he person being referred to IS (not “identifies as”) the gender they say they are, but doctors labeled them something when they were born based off of genetalia.

This is typically ok for most trans people, but I also have another preferred method which I think is a little more scientifically accurate. Since intersex people exist and are often labeled strangely by doctors at birth while still being 100% fully healthy and natural themselves, I find it’s good to just be specific. If you’re talking about risk of getting pregnant you might just say “people with uteruses” rather than women, biological women, or afab people because that includes trans men and intersex people who could get pregnant. Similarly, anyone with a prostate could get prostate cancer and should be screened for that. No one is trying to deny that we have certain parts, but some of us would just rather they be detached from gender as a whole. Does that make sense?

 

[JopneJappa]

I will only comment about sports. According to me, Trans women/girls should be evaluated by establishing some new medical standards before allowing them to compete in women's events. I respect and love Trans people, but we have to be practical. Just going through HRT for an adult will not change the gains that individual made in bone structure, height, muscle growth etcetera. In competitive sports, it will be an atrocity for biological cis women who won't be able to compete with them however hard they try. There have been many recent examples where the person before transition was not even mediocre in men's events while they are breaking records after their transition in women's events. This is absolutely unfair.

 

[Electric blue]

Hi , it's been a while since I was here , It's interesting that I keep being pulled back here , Maybe I just need to be around what I don't have any more ,
I lived with a transexual woman for six years ,it was pure heaven , She was my whole world
Yes ,SHE , born a male but this woman was all female to me , we didn't use labels , I was the man she was the woman , simple as that , A very bueatful woman in every aspect .. last year she was beaten and raped by four men , cowards actually, her one eye never fully recovered , she lived in fear even when we went away , this poor girl would shake and scream in bed , I had to sleep in the other bed room , Even I was a mental threat to her , I loved her more than I can put in type .
She killed her self a few weeks ago , my world stopped , she had so much fear from the rape and beating , she just couldn't cope any more ,. And the fucking law is doing nothing at all .
Maybe I shouldn't have posted this or maybe I should , I'm not doing to well these days

 

[ceriewoman]

I will only comment about sports. According to me, Trans women/girls should be evaluated by establishing some new medical standards before allowing them to compete in women's events. I respect and love Trans people, but we have to be practical. Just going through HRT for an adult will not change the gains that individual made in bone structure, height, muscle growth etcetera. In competitive sports, it will be an atrocity for biological cis women who won't be able to compete with them however hard they try. There have been many recent examples where the person before transition was not even mediocre in men's events while they are breaking records after their transition in women's events. This is absolutely unfair.

Would you say this about genetic advantages that give athletes who identify with their assigned gender an edge? Michael Phelps produces half the lactic acid of the average athlete – doesn’t this give him an innate edge up? Should we separate him from the rest of the men’s league because of it?

Castor Semenya, assigned female at birth, was disallowed from competing in 800m races because her testosterone levels were too high – would you consider this a fair decision, or would you have her compete with the men? Would that be fair?

The problem with the “genetic advantage” argument against trans athletes is that you have to define which genetic advantages are ok to have and which are not, and that gets very fuzzy very quickly.

 

[JopneJappa]

As I said in my post that new medical standards are required. But please don't compare lactic acid with muscle growth, height, bone strength etcetera. The latter ones are vastly advantageous over the former. It's like in a fight between two people where one has a shit load of guns and the other unarmed, but you may argue that the unarmed may win because he's slightly better at hand to hand combat than the other.

Anyways the lactic acid debate is controversial and dividing in medical community. It all depends on which biochemist/doctor you ask, you will get polarizing answers. The articles deliberately show you only one side of the scientific argument depending on who their readers are.

Which factors can be considered advantageous are of course debatable, but there is always general consensus among major differentiating factors like the one I wrote about.

 

[Bittydrew]

Hi , it's been a while since I was here , It's interesting that I keep being pulled back here , Maybe I just need to be around what I don't have any more ,
I lived with a transexual woman for six years ,it was pure heaven , She was my whole world
Yes ,SHE , born a male but this woman was all female to me , we didn't use labels , I was the man she was the woman , simple as that , A very bueatful woman in every aspect .. last year she was beaten and raped by four men , cowards actually, her one eye never fully recovered , she lived in fear even when we went away , this poor girl would shake and scream in bed , I had to sleep in the other bed room , Even I was a mental threat to her , I loved her more than I can put in type .
She killed her self a few weeks ago , my world stopped , she had so much fear from the rape and beating , she just couldn't cope any more ,. And the fucking law is doing nothing at all .
Maybe I shouldn't have posted this or maybe I should , I'm not doing to well these days

Oh no so sad with the world today its getting worse for us also .....all the hate about us is unnecessary all we want is love also ....and to be respected ....

 

[deleted6505551]

Hi , it's been a while since I was here , It's interesting that I keep being pulled back here , Maybe I just need to be around what I don't have any more ,
I lived with a transexual woman for six years ,it was pure heaven , She was my whole world
Yes ,SHE , born a male but this woman was all female to me , we didn't use labels , I was the man she was the woman , simple as that , A very bueatful woman in every aspect .. last year she was beaten and raped by four men , cowards actually, her one eye never fully recovered , she lived in fear even when we went away , this poor girl would shake and scream in bed , I had to sleep in the other bed room , Even I was a mental threat to her , I loved her more than I can put in type .
She killed her self a few weeks ago , my world stopped , she had so much fear from the rape and beating , she just couldn't cope any more ,. And the fucking law is doing nothing at all .
Maybe I shouldn't have posted this or maybe I should , I'm not doing to well these days

Hi Blue,

I wondered what happened. I am so very sorry to hear this news. The world can be such a horrible place.

You have at least one friend here and I'm always available if you want to chat.

Aly

 

[Bittydrew]

Hi Blue,

I wondered what happened. I am so very sorry to hear this news. The world can be such a horrible place.

You have at least one friend here and I'm always available if you want to chat.

Aly

Got another here ....

 

[hoodho]

Hi , it's been a while since I was here , It's interesting that I keep being pulled back here , Maybe I just need to be around what I don't have any more ,
I lived with a transexual woman for six years ,it was pure heaven , She was my whole world
Yes ,SHE , born a male but this woman was all female to me , we didn't use labels , I was the man she was the woman , simple as that , A very bueatful woman in every aspect .. last year she was beaten and raped by four men , cowards actually, her one eye never fully recovered , she lived in fear even when we went away , this poor girl would shake and scream in bed , I had to sleep in the other bed room , Even I was a mental threat to her , I loved her more than I can put in type .
She killed her self a few weeks ago , my world stopped , she had so much fear from the rape and beating , she just couldn't cope any more ,. And the fucking law is doing nothing at all .
Maybe I shouldn't have posted this or maybe I should , I'm not doing to well these days

omg this is horrible. did she not try to press charges?