Should Sexual Deprivation Be Treat Like Sexual Aggression Is?

[huguest]

I want to talk about a topic that is not talk enough.

Sexual aggression is often pointed out and society, media, laws have changed a lot in the past decades. I"m glade that we as a society we can condemn this sexual act. It's not right to impose sexual act on someone else.

It's often men that perpetrate this act. It's a physical and "active" act.

I always wondered, if men are the one's doing the sexual aggression, what is the equivalent for women?
Let be honest, we are all capable of manipulative behaviour, women included.

I think, the equivalent of sexual aggression for women would be sexual deprivation. It's a passive behaviour that do as much damage as a sexual aggression.

It's a lot taboo in our society, most men don't even realize that they are been mistreated, hurt, mentally and physically this way.

I personally realize I needed therapies after years of sexual deprivation in my old relation.

So what do you think? Should sexual deprivation should be condemned like sexual aggression is?

 

[marriedasian]

to answer your question, "no", we should not condemn sexual deprivation because for most of us, we can always choose to ignore the sexual deprivation being imposed on us and go get it elsewhere (as a last resort). sexual aggression is not something that the receiver can just ignore and walk away. there's a difference.

in marriage life, it's referred to as a dead bedroom and it's caused by both women and men in the relationship. depending on the situation, the one who isn't getting any sex will cheat, leave, or suffer however it's still a "choice" to tolerate the lack of sex.

if you're in a situation where sex is being withheld from you then walk away. sex is one of the easiest things to get and if you're willing to pay for it, then it's 100% guaranteed.

 

[Sagittarius84]

I want to talk about a topic that is not talk enough.

Sexual aggression is often pointed out and society, media, laws have changed a lot in the past decades. I"m glade that we as a society we can condemn this sexual act. It's not right to impose sexual act on someone else.

It's often men that perpetrate this act. It's a physical and "active" act.

I always wondered, if men are the one's doing the sexual aggression, what is the equivalent for women?
Let be honest, we are all capable of manipulative behaviour, women included.

I think, the equivalent of sexual aggression for women would be sexual deprivation. It's a passive behaviour that do as much damage as a sexual aggression.

It's a lot taboo in our society, most men don't even realize that they are been mistreated, hurt, mentally and physically this way.

I personally realize I needed therapies after years of sexual deprivation in my old relation.

So what do you think? Should sexual deprivation should be condemned like sexual aggression is?

I do believe sexual deprivation is deserving of more public condemnation than it currently gets, but never to the level of sexual aggression...we are entitled to bodily autonomy, but unfortunately we are not entitled to sexual fulfillment

 

[T_Lurch]

If your partner is purposely withholding sex in an effort to manipulate you (I assume that's what you're referring to), then I'd seriously re-evaluate the relationship and whether they are the right person for you.

Nobody owes sex to anyone, but at the same time, it is part and parcel of a healthy marriage (exceptions: asexuality, health issues) and not just for reasons of physical lust: it brings closeness, connection, and a feeling of being desired.

Withholding sex from the other in an attempt to manipulate/control is not a sign of a good relationship.

I don't think it makes an effective analogue to sexual aggression (i.e., rape) however, as the dynamics are different. Sexual aggression is about power and dominance most of the time rather than simple lust.

 

[Tight_End_SC]

Sometimes the parnter may just not feel sexy or feel like having sex. Open communication should exist in a solid relationship; therefore, the reason for not having sex should not be a mystery. The two (aggression and deprivation) should not be treated the same in my opinion.

 

[Player_01]

Getting denied is not the same as getting raped. So, no. Incel.

 

[Scarletbegonia]

Not fucking you is NOT the same as rape.
Tabernak

 

[huguest]

Thanks for the answers I should define a bit more my prerogative.

I'm NOT comparing denied sex to rape. And I know there are many situation where medical, hormonal or stress can put the couple in a dry sex period.

I'm pointing out that sexual aggressive behavior, is a ACTIVE manipulative behavior. There is multiple type of manipulative behavior. one of them PASSIVE manipulative behavior. It's not gender related.

We hear a lot about aggressive sexual behavior and we don't hear about passive one. It's like taboo, or we just don't suspect it because it's less visible. But it do as much damage mentally and physically as a Active one.

Here a example of a "passive" manipulative sexual behavior:

Your in a new relation with your partner. everything is fine, sexually it ok and everything is stable. You decide to move in a new apartment together. In just a few month's the sex drop slowly. Nothing have change except been living together. Your partner give you excuses. Your partner say that he/she love you, but there no more touching, no affection in anyway, no sex. Then kid's... you just keep it in, waiting. And it can keep going for year's.

One day, you realize that it's all about keeping you under control, like a leash, depraved.

I think passive manipulative behavior (sexual deprivation or sexual denial) need to be less taboo.

I feel we see as a society this passive behavior in the same way we treated sexual harassment in the 70th. "Oh! you could always just walk away".

I think personally it's need more awareness, I think it will never be condemned like sexual aggression, but for sure it's need to be treated as damaging and inflicting.

Your right, nobody is entitled to sexual fulfillment, but nobody should suffer depravation in anyway.

Thanks again for your comment, I wish this awareness grow enough that someday, We will have a "ME Too", saying that behavior is not acceptable anymore.

 

[marriedasian]

Your in a new relation with your partner. everything is fine, sexually it ok and everything is stable. You decide to move in a new apartment together. In just a few month's the sex drop slowly. Nothing have change except been living together. Your partner give you excuses. Your partner say that he/she love you, but there no more touching, no affection in anyway, no sex. Then kid's... you just keep it in, waiting. And it can keep going for year's.

there's a thing called personal agency. if you "choose" to stay in that relationship and allow it to get to that point then that is "your" fault and nobody else is to blame. you have a choice to leave that person and not take that treatment, period. if you allow kids to come into the picture and then scream "i'm trapped", well, that's still on you because you chose to stay and make kids... again, this is not a good enough reason and/or excuse to justify as sexual deprivation.

One day, you realize that it's all about keeping you under control, like a leash, depraved.

again, personal agency and personal choice to LEAVE the relationship. if you stay and tolerate the lack of sex or intimacy then it's on YOU. a relationship doesn't just flip 180 degrees overnight. there will be red flags but most people just ignore them and put all their faith in wishful thinking that things will just "fix" itself over time. fast-forward 5 years, 2 kids, a business, and whatever and now "i'm trapped"...

I feel we see as a society this passive behavior in the same way we treated sexual harassment in the 70th. "Oh! you could always just walk away".

ummm, you can walk away from a sexless relationship unlike sexual harassment that is coming from another person that you have no control over.

Thanks again for your comment, I wish this awareness grow enough that someday, We will have a "ME Too", saying that behavior is not acceptable anymore.

in all seriousness, if sexual intimacy is that high on your priority list for a relationship and you're not getting it from your partner then you should kick your partner to the curb and go find someone else. if you choose to stay with your partner and suffer then you've no one to blame but yourself. there will never be a "ME Too" movement for this because at the end of the day, you have a freedom of choice to simply walk away and go find someone else without much recourse at all.

this is like saying: every women should give blowjobs because it's mentally affecting men's health. we need to talk about how it affects men all over the world. women need to know how important blowjobs are to men... really?... if you find a woman and she doesn't suck dick then either choose to stay with her and never get your dick sucked again, or dump her to the curb and go find another women who sucks dick like there's no tomorrow.

 

[huguest]

there's a thing called personal agency. if you "choose" to stay in that relationship and allow it to get to that point then that is "your" fault and nobody else is to blame. you have a choice to leave that person and not take that treatment, period. if you allow kids to come into the picture and then scream "i'm trapped", well, that's still on you because you chose to stay and make kids... again, this is not a good enough reason and/or excuse to justify as sexual deprivation.



again, personal agency and personal choice to LEAVE the relationship. if you stay and tolerate the lack of sex or intimacy then it's on YOU. a relationship doesn't just flip 180 degrees overnight. there will be red flags but most people just ignore them and put all their faith in wishful thinking that things will just "fix" itself over time. fast-forward 5 years, 2 kids, a business, and whatever and now "i'm trapped"...



ummm, you can walk away from a sexless relationship unlike sexual harassment that is coming from another person that you have no control over.



in all seriousness, if sexual intimacy is that high on your priority list for a relationship and you're not getting it from your partner then you should kick your partner to the curb and go find someone else. if you choose to stay with your partner and suffer then you've no one to blame but yourself. there will never be a "ME Too" movement for this because at the end of the day, you have a freedom of choice to simply walk away and go find someone else without much recourse at all.

this is like saying: every women should give blowjobs because it's mentally affecting men's health. we need to talk about how it affects men all over the world. women need to know how important blowjobs are to men... really?... if you find a woman and she doesn't suck dick then either choose to stay with her and never get your dick sucked again, or dump her to the curb and go find another women who sucks dick like there's no tomorrow.

I think your harsh with your comment, You know what, I did leave that relation. It took me a lot, kids, divorce, mental and emotional therapee.

It's not just black/white, I thought I could have a conversation about manipulative behavior with people here but it just show that you don't know shit about manipulative behavior. You think there is only one way sexual manipulation could be harmful? There only sexual aggressiveness we should talk about?

With your statement, it's clear that all those people that are not aware that they live with a passive manipulating person, are just too dummy to figure it out. It's as simple as dump the person, really?

I know it a fine line, and passive sexual manipulation is more common then sexual aggression. It's not as shown, it's still a fucking nightmare of a living.

I will take your argument, and shut up about it. I shouldn't ask those questions here.

Sexual Deprivation In Marriage – Dr. Karen Ruskin – Relationship Expert, Marriage and Family Therapist (drkarenruskin.com)
How To Identify A Sexual Manipulator | Psychology Today
8 Signs Of A Manipulative Wife - Often Disguised As Love (bonobology.com)

 

[T_Lurch]

@huguest I wouldn't get too carried away here. Your thread is perfectly valid and it is a thing that happens, it's a form of emotional manipulation and its a shitty thing to do to someone.

I think marriedasian isn't considering that it isn't easy to walk away from a person you are tied up emotionally in, have children with, and have invested years, maybe decades in living with. Not everyone can simply say "fuck it" and walk away to go find someone else.

At the same time, you can't equate withholding sex with rape; they are nowhere near the same level of heinousness.

Purposefully withholding sex falls under manipulation and it is something that should be dealt with via honest communication or maybe counseling.

 

[dreamer20]

I always wondered, if men are the one's doing the sexual aggression, what is the equivalent for women?
Let be honest, we are all capable of manipulative behaviour, women included. I think, the equivalent of sexual aggression for women would be sexual deprivation. It's a passive behaviour that do as much damage as a sexual aggression.

So what do you think? Should sexual deprivation should be condemned like sexual aggression is?

It's not complicated. Sexual aggression is not restricted to men alone. Both men and women can be sexually aggressive. A passive person is not equilavent to an aggressive one. I see you've veered off into a different discussion now. Carry on.

 

[Scarletbegonia]

It's not complicated. Sexual aggression is not restricted to men alone. Both men and women can be sexually aggressive. A passive person is not equilavent to an aggressive one.

agreed.
If we are trying to keep aggression under control within society (and we do...we channel into sports, policing, military service...we make acceptable arenas for aggressive behaviours), we are controlling an impulse that can physically harm others.
A passive partner, no matter the reason, is NOT physically threatening.

 

[Sagittarius84]

It's not complicated. Sexual aggression is not restricted to men alone. Both men and women can be sexually aggressive. A passive person is not equilavent to an aggressive one. I see you've veered off into a different discussion now. Carry on.

So then how is attention given then, or are we working on a priority scale that dictates passive behaviors are not really an issue until the active behaviors are dealt with first? Within a heteronormative scope that seems to be a great reason for men to consider things like gaslighting as unnecessary distractions from the active issues that face women like sexual assault.
I think we can walk and chew gum at the same time. I think we can identify both active sexual aggression and passive sexual manipulation as toxic to relationships even if the immediate consequences arent in any way equivalent.

 

[marriedasian]

I think your harsh with your comment, You know what, I did leave that relation. It took me a lot, kids, divorce, mental and emotional therapee.

my statements are not harsh. it's reality. good for you that you did leave such a relationship; and yes, there are going to be collateral damage along the way if we wait too long to act however we always have a "choice" and it can be just that easy if we want it to be. it's the cold hard truth. we simply choose not to abandon the relationship for whatever reasons that we value more than the non-existence of sexual intimacy (i.e. kids, fear of being alone, etc.). it's still a choice is what i'm trying to get across.

It's not just black/white, I thought I could have a conversation about manipulative behavior with people here but it just show that you don't know shit about manipulative behavior. You think there is only one way sexual manipulation could be harmful? There only sexual aggressiveness we should talk about?

perhaps my reality check is hitting a little too close to home for you. it can be black and white if you want it to be. there are choices and then the consequences that come with it. if you're willing to accept the consequences then just walk away and everything else be damned. also, i never said sexual manipulation is only one way. there are many forms of it. this form, where sexual intimacy is withheld, is very obvious and up front. you can't not miss it therefore if you choose to stay and suffer, it's on you.

With your statement, it's clear that all those people that are not aware that they live with a passive manipulating person, are just too dummy to figure it out. It's as simple as dump the person, really?

most people see but choose to ignore. if your partner is withholding sexual intimacy from you, you will notice and will notice really quick over a short period of time. soon your partner may begin to withhold sex as punishment or even barter with it. again, it will be noticed. if you choose to ignore the red flags and/or tolerate and suffer through it then it's on you. sexual intimacy is kinda hard to not notice.

I know it a fine line, and passive sexual manipulation is more common then sexual aggression. It's not as shown, it's still a fucking nightmare of a living.

again, withholding sexual intimacy is very obvious to the one who's not getting it so how you can possibly miss this is unknown to me. even if you're still getting sex as a bartering tool, you'd still notice.

I will take your argument, and shut up about it. I shouldn't ask those questions here.

i disagree. you shouldn't shut up. we do need to talk about these things however we shouldn't sugar-coat it. we need to come to terms with the reality of the situation and face it head on no matter how hard it may be so that we can overcome it. withholding sex as a form of manipulation can have devastating effects on a person's mental state which, if untreated, will carry forward into the next relationships and so forth. this is one of the "baggage" that we refer to when talking about dating and relationships.

 

[halcyondays]

I would never equate the two but condemn both.

Sounds like couples counseling is in order.

I've never been married but if I were and my partner openly admitted withholding sex to manipulate me--especially over a long period of time--I would record and document it with the guidance of a lawyer without telling my partner I'm taking legal advice. If s/he refused couples counseling to save the relationship I would sue for divorce on grounds of abuse.

Depending on jurisdiction abuse is not only physical.

 

[Sagittarius84]

I would never equate the two but condemn both.

Sounds like couples counseling is in order.

I've never been married but if I were and my partner openly admitted withholding sex to manipulate me--especially over a long period of time--I would record and document it with the guidance of a lawyer without telling my partner I'm taking legal advice. If s/he refused couples counseling to save the relationship I would sue for divorce on grounds of abuse.

Depending on jurisdiction abuse is not only physical.

The problem being is there are valid arguments that exist as a blanket statement which can almost always tie an unwillingness to have sex to the partners undesirable behavior or inaction. Its a circular argument that typically eventually spirals towards the higher libidos half culpability or inaction.
Even in accordance with the phrase "withholding sex to manipulate me" do I feel a small level of ick because as absolutely objectively true as it may be, real life perception trends toward a sense of entitlement which may not even exist.

As per OPs question, I think the only attempt at equating sexual manipulation by withholding would have to be to another common passive abusive behaviors not constrained by any gender norms or averages.

 

[umdoistressilvaquatro]

Straight men are so fucking creppy and insane

 

[T_Lurch]

Straight men are so fucking creppy and insane

That's a little harsh, and uncalled for in this thread.

What does straight men's behavior have to do with this subject?

 

[socalfreak]

I want to talk about a topic that is not talk enough.

Sexual aggression is often pointed out and society, media, laws have changed a lot in the past decades. I"m glade that we as a society we can condemn this sexual act. It's not right to impose sexual act on someone else.

It's often men that perpetrate this act. It's a physical and "active" act.

I always wondered, if men are the one's doing the sexual aggression, what is the equivalent for women?
Let be honest, we are all capable of manipulative behaviour, women included.

I think, the equivalent of sexual aggression for women would be sexual deprivation. It's a passive behaviour that do as much damage as a sexual aggression.

It's a lot taboo in our society, most men don't even realize that they are been mistreated, hurt, mentally and physically this way.

I personally realize I needed therapies after years of sexual deprivation in my old relation.

So what do you think? Should sexual deprivation should be condemned like sexual aggression is?

NO.
"Sexual aggression"... Coercion, sexual assault, sexual battery, date rape, and rape are nowhere near the same as someone saying "no", no matter what the circumstances.
Nobody owes you sex... Not even your wife.
Talk and see if the situation can be fixed.
If not, too bad.
Don't like it? Too bad.... You are free to leave.

Getting your little feelings hurt because you got shot down isn't in the same solar system as the mental/emotional/physical trauma that can be brought on by "sexual aggression".

There is no physical trauma you're going to suffer from being told "no".
That idea is total bullshit.
Go masturbate. You'll be fine.