Should Sexual Deprivation Be Treat Like Sexual Aggression Is?

[halcyondays]

Even in accordance with the phrase "withholding sex to manipulate me" do I feel a small level of ick because as absolutely objectively true as it may be, real life perception trends toward a sense of entitlement which may not even exist.

I agree with you generally--ick, but not if one partner openly admits openly and repeatedly they are withholding sex to manipulate the other as I said in my post.

 

[WilliamG]

Sexual aggression is harmful. Sexual deprivation is hurtful.

 

[deleted464787]

Anyone (men or women) who use sex, or a lack thereof, as a means to manipulate their partner don’t deserve that partner and are just asking to get cheated on.

obviously if there’s a valid reason, that’s another story entirely, but for manipulative reasons.... it’s unacceptable.

If I had a girlfriend that I suspected was withholding sex for such a petty reason, I’d be very upfront: “I’m going to look elsewhere for physical satisfaction now. If you have a problem with that, we can either have sex together, or we need to see other people.”

 

[Snarky_succubus]

I think your harsh with your comment, You know what, I did leave that relation. It took me a lot, kids, divorce, mental and emotional therapee.

It's not just black/white, I thought I could have a conversation about manipulative behavior with people here but it just show that you don't know shit about manipulative behavior. You think there is only one way sexual manipulation could be harmful? There only sexual aggressiveness we should talk about?

With your statement, it's clear that all those people that are not aware that they live with a passive manipulating person, are just too dummy to figure it out. It's as simple as dump the person, really?

I know it a fine line, and passive sexual manipulation is more common then sexual aggression. It's not as shown, it's still a fucking nightmare of a living.

I will take your argument, and shut up about it. I shouldn't ask those questions here.

Sexual Deprivation In Marriage – Dr. Karen Ruskin – Relationship Expert, Marriage and Family Therapist (drkarenruskin.com)
How To Identify A Sexual Manipulator | Psychology Today
8 Signs Of A Manipulative Wife - Often Disguised As Love (bonobology.com)

The problem isn’t you trying to have a conversation about manipulative behavior... the problem is you in ANY way shape or form comparing the two things you tried to compare. Is sexual deprivation for the purpose of manipulation fucked up? Sure. NOWHERE NEAR as fucked up as rape. Not in the same stratosphere. Not even close. Ever. That’s not even touching the other things that typically go along with that kind of behavior.

 

[EquusAZ]

I think the biggest issue here is that there is a miscommunication about what this topic is about.

Sexual Aggression VS Sexual Manipulation

Deprivation is a bit of a confusing word.

They are not the same thing, obviously, and therefore should not be treated the same. Aggression / Rape is an act that is forced upon another. Manipulation is passive. Is it hurtful? Absolutely. Passive-aggressive behavior is pretty darned insidious, but its not as overtly traumatic as rape.

Think of it like this, Aggression / Rape is where one person wants the act and is willing to subvert another person to get what they want. Manipulation is the act of withholding something, but in the end when it does happen, it is consensual. When we can choose to not be a part of something, i.e. leave a manipulative relationship, we stop being victims. Rape victims don't have that choice.

 

[umdoistressilvaquatro]

That's a little harsh, and uncalled for in this thread.

What does straight men's behavior have to do with this subject?

To claim that not having sex with you is a woman's equivalent to a man's rape is creepy and insane.

 

[umdoistressilvaquatro]

One day, you realize that it's all about keeping you under control, like a leash, depraved.

That freudian slip that gives it all

 

[T_Lurch]

To claim that not having sex with you is a woman's equivalent to a man's rape is creepy and insane.

I agree that it is wrong to equate withholding sex with actual rape. The two are not the same thing.

But you're making a statement that all straight people are "creepy and insane".

That's not true.

 

[umdoistressilvaquatro]

I agree that it is wrong to equate withholding sex with actual rape. The two are not the same thing.

But you're making a statement that all straight people are "creepy and insane".

That's not true.

The man who said it is straight, and I wouldn't expect otherwise, out of experience. If you want to bury your head in the sand, your are free to do so. Also, "withholding" isn't the right word, as nobody is entitled to having sex with anyone.

 

[Barbarian73]

I once knew a couple the Sister of a friend was the wife and she was the one doing the wooing and chasing up to the marriage, gushing and praising him(sex included) to the point every one had heard how she loved him so much we were glad to get them married off! LOL! Then she was four drinks in at a bar-b-que and loudly and proudly bragged about denying sex... It was less than a month out after their wedding day! Her family was taken pale-faced. They were divorced 15 months later at her expense. As fucked up as that was. A woman denying sex even though it's often a form of manipulation isn't comparable to sexual aggression from a man. Being told no in its worst form doesn't end up with a man physically injured, emotionally traumatized, with possible PTSD.

 

[Sagittarius84]

Straight men are so fucking creppy and insane

The common questions in "Ask a Straight Man" imply said creepiness and insanity are a consequence of being male not heterosexual...lol

 

[Sagittarius84]

The man who said it is straight, and I wouldn't expect otherwise, out of experience. If you want to bury your head in the sand, your are free to do so. Also, "withholding" isn't the right word, as nobody is entitled to having sex with anyone.

Nobody is "entitled" to communication, to affection, some could argue no one is entitled to respect, yet we easily identify how someone can withhold these things within a relationship.
Nobody is really entitled to anything beyond basic autonomy and consent, where the idea of withholding comes up is typically not of one party trying to enforce some obligation on the other, but rather that other party having made a commitment, to which the first party has based their expectations only to be repeatedly disappointed.

 

[Sagittarius84]

NO.
"Sexual aggression"... Coercion, sexual assault, sexual battery, date rape, and rape are nowhere near the same as someone saying "no", no matter what the circumstances.
Nobody owes you sex... Not even your wife.
Talk and see if the situation can be fixed.
If not, too bad.
Don't like it? Too bad.... You are free to leave.

Getting your little feelings hurt because you got shot down isn't in the same solar system as the mental/emotional/physical trauma that can be brought on by "sexual aggression".

There is no physical trauma you're going to suffer from being told "no".
That idea is total bullshit.
Go masturbate. You'll be fine.

Im curious why coercion specifically is included in your example, as it isnt necessarily an active form of abuse.

 

[umdoistressilvaquatro]

The common questions in "Ask a Straight Man" imply said creepiness and insanity are a consequence of being male not heterosexual...lol

"100 percent straights - why are you here?"
"Would you eat a pussy out after you’ve came in it?"
"Do You Find A Penis To Be Aesthetically Beautiful?"
I don't know, I don't usually go to that part of the forum, but I suspect any disconfort you may feel from posts there are just no match to "my wife doesn't want to fuck and that's kinda like rape".
Also, most gay couples would know why this topic is creepy, even being both males.

 

[Sagittarius84]

"100 percent straights - why are you here?"
"Would you eat a pussy out after you’ve came in it?"
"Do You Find A Penis To Be Aesthetically Beautiful?"
I don't know, I don't usually go to that part of the forum, but I suspect any disconfort you may feel from posts there are just no match to "my wife doesn't want to fuck and that's kinda like rape".
Also, most gay couples would know why this topic is creepy, even being both males.

Spectacular job at cherry picking threads so that you can maintain some sense of plausible deniability. You and I both know perusing through "Ask a Straight Man" every other thread is started by some gay or degree of bi guy trying to invoke some "Tiger King"-esque logic trap to cater to their straight-baiting fantasies...i.e. a bunch of men being gross and creepy in looking to sexually take advantage of someone else, which much like statutory rape, sexual assault, domestic violence, etc., isnt really considered all that big of a deal because the desired target is heterosexual men.
I think there's been a fairly universal rebuke of OPs premise of equating sexual deprivation or manipulation to rape, we dont need to go about pushing forth divisive and opportunistic narratives about straight men(separate from all men) to reinforce the point.

 

[socalfreak]

Im curious why coercion specifically is included in your example, as it isnt necessarily an active form of abuse.

Because, it *is* a form of abuse. Recognized by criminal courts as such, during date-rape cases and other sexual assaults. Thinking that wearing someone down verbally until they crack is ok?
No. It's the same as police wearing someone down during an interrogation and getting a false confession just so they would stop the pressure.

 

[Sagittarius84]

Because, it *is* a form of abuse. Recognized by criminal courts as such, during date-rape cases and other sexual assaults. Thinking that wearing someone down verbally until they crack is ok?
No. It's the same as police wearing someone down during an interrogation and getting a false confession just so they would stop the pressure.

1st I never said it wasn't abuse, the implication was that it would be considered a passive form of abuse, still dependent upon consent, which puts it more on par with sexual deprivation/manipulation than rape and sexual assault
2nd, Rape, sexual aggression, sexual deprivation/manipulation...nobody has come close to implying any of these things are "ok". So while I understand the metaphor provided about prolonged police interrogation, I see it only applying if said pressure and repeated questioning are accompanied by conditions which threaten life and limb or prevent access to counsel, otherwise the police have every right to be as annoying as possible and consistently ask you questions in an effort to get you to slip up, just as you have every right to evade them or opt to not answer their questions. Sexual coercion has a broad scope, and in the absence of actual or threatened active abuse it exists as obviously annoying behavior but is still dependant on the consent and patience of its target to be successful

 

[T_Lurch]

I'm out of this thread. Civil discourse is out the window, hatred has come in and it's beginning to have the sewage-like reek of the Politics section in here.

Bye.

 

[clav]

Tbh havent gone through any of the subsequent messages and only read the OP. Seriously dude, to think a partner not wanting to have sex is comparable with sexual abuse is messed up, unless it’s a very cold and calculated strategy of manipulation (which is a very unique and specific scenario most people will thankfully not encounter).

If one is not happy with the amount of sex they get it is important to talk about it. Is it because your partner is going through some issues that are impairing their sex drive? Then talk through it and support them - your sex life has to be secondary for the time being. Are they simply not willing to engage in sexual stuff with you? Well then you have choices to make. It doesn’t mean it will be easy ones, at all, of course.

Nto say a sexless long spell can’t cause issues, of course it can and probably will/would, but it is still part of a relationship which is a very two way thing, by which point I think the interesting argument about issues and taboos is to be had about why talking sex health and sex life is so taboo and why much of our societies don’t help us building a positive support network to navigate through issues, but that’s an entirely different conversation. One worthy to have nonetheless, but I guess should be a separate one.

I’ve been in a relationship where sex life stalled but I never blamed her or resented her for it, bus as with any healthy relationship you have to weigh things out and build within it too. I agree, it did affect me and cause me some issues in my next relationship which took some time to get over, but that was also because I hadn’t been good enough at doing that all important talk myself and allowed the situation to happen. Hindsight is a great thing, but to blame people who stall out of a sex life of plain cruelty and even considering they might be akin to abusers is plain wrong in my opinion.

Also important to point out, someone deciding they won’t have sex is not an issue, at all - everyone has the freedom to make that choice and sex is not owed to anyone, ever. To think otherwise is seriously entitled and plain messed up.

 

[socalfreak]

1st I never said it wasn't abuse, the implication was that it would be considered a passive form of abuse, still dependent upon consent, which puts it more on par with sexual deprivation/manipulation than rape and sexual assault
2nd, Rape, sexual aggression, sexual deprivation/manipulation...nobody has come close to implying any of these things are "ok". So while I understand the metaphor provided about prolonged police interrogation, I see it only applying if said pressure and repeated questioning are accompanied by conditions which threaten life and limb or prevent access to counsel, otherwise the police have every right to be as annoying as possible and consistently ask you questions in an effort to get you to slip up, just as you have every right to evade them or opt to not answer their questions. Sexual coercion has a broad scope, and in the absence of actual or threatened active abuse it exists as obviously annoying behavior but is still dependant on the consent and patience of its target to be successful

Nope.
You missed it completely....
My points were clear and backed by legal precedent.
And we all smell the unmistakable stench of troll coming off you.