Woman trouble please help

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sammygirly: I'll admit that I've steered clear of this thread the past few days because my initial reaction was "NOOO!!!", and I saw that support was what he needed, not my jaded opinion.

But I've got to say it: I dont like this! I dont like a woman who says she loves you, says she wants to marry you, says she'll get back with you but....let her have her cake and eat it too for a little while.

I dont like it. Yeah, I'm clingy I suppose. I'm with my Man as often as time in the day allows it! We go our own ways, do our own things...but dammit, i need to KNOW He's there for me when i need Him.

 

[jonb]

[quote author=sammygirly link=board=relationships;num=1058851299;start=20#20 date=07/26/03 at 08:21:30]I'll admit that I've steered clear of this thread the past few days because my initial reaction was "NOOO!!!", and I saw that support was what he needed, not my jaded opinion.[/quote]
I was about to flame too, but the answer is to agree to certain boundaries. These boundaries should be mutual.

Oh, if she wants to have intercourse, the best compromise is to make sure the man in question is your brother; the whole reason female adultery has traditionally been more an issue than male adultery is the issue of paternity, and so polyandry's almost always fraternal so you can be assured the kid has your genes.

 

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gigantikok: [quote author=jonb link=board=relationships;num=1058851299;start=20#21 date=07/26/03 at 18:45:06]
I was about to flame too, but the answer is to agree to certain boundaries. These boundaries should be mutual.

Oh, if she wants to have intercourse, the best compromise is to make sure the man in question is your brother; the whole reason female adultery has traditionally been more an issue than male adultery is the issue of paternity, and so polyandry's almost always fraternal so you can be assured the kid has your genes.[/quote]

jonb, in all honesty, i dont know what the hell you are talking about. My opinion was just that the girl might be lieing to him or leading him on because she didn't have the guts to tell him how she truly feels. I don't know how it became a topic about her having sex with ItalianStallion's brother, polyandrys, or children.

 

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joe22xxx: I've been in a similar situation, and at your age, I think you should take care of yourself first. I realize that relationships can cause a lot of hurt, but asking you to put your love on hold is not healthy. If anyone wants to "test" your love or your relationship, that's bullshit. Sorry for the strong words. I mean, you are worth something too... not just her needs. If she doesn't respect you, then move on.

 

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Trackers: [quote author=joe22xxx link=board=relationships;num=1058851299;start=20#23 date=07/26/03 at 21:05:23]I've been in a similar situation, and at your age, I think you should take care of yourself first. I realize that relationships can cause a lot of hurt, but asking you to put your love on hold is not healthy. If anyone wants to "test" your love or your relationship, that's bullshit. Sorry for the strong words. I mean, you are worth something too... not just her needs. If she doesn't respect you, then move on.[/quote]
On ya Joe!!!! I could not have put it any better, even if I tried!

 

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ItalianStallion: I would have to agree with you about the testing the love of a relationship. But I guess that many of you can't understand unless you know the girl. She would never test my love for her because I make sure she knows how much I love her. We still see each other almost every day, and when we see each other we still basically act like we are together, she would never do anything to hurt me, or would she say anything to hurt me. The rules apply to both of us, and the rules are the same for both of us, anything other than intercourse is ok. She has told me that she hasn't done anything other than kiss a couple of guys, she said the entire thing isn't about her being with other guys, it is more about her wanting some time to feel "unattached" before our relationship goes any further. Where you might get confused about the rules are that she says it is ok if I decide I would like to fool around with someone else, but the fact is I have no urge to do that. I can see her point though, I asked her to marry me when she wasn't even out of high school yet, she is only turning 19 in a few days. She and I are both very young, but I am living on my own, and I have started a career. I am aged beyond my years and I was ready for this but I think that she just felt a little overwhelmed, we were only engaged for about a month before we took this break. I am 100 percent positive that she will get back with me, and I am sure that this entire thing will make us stronger as a couple. Thank you for the support, everything seems to be going great, and my lady and I are doing better everyday.

 

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Javierdude22: [quote author=ItalianStallion link=board=relationships;num=1058851299;start=0#0 date=07/21/03 at 22:12:38] but she says for a little while that she wants to be on her own unattached because she says she has never been able to feel like that and she says she doesn't want to be forty years old and feel like she missed out. [/quote]

I.S., I think this quote of yours is basically the main problem to your girlfriend, and the explanation in my opinion lies there.

Look, i have two really good friends who are and were involved in really longtermrelationships. One of them started at 14 and were together for 7 years. The other started at 15, and are still together at 23, and living together.

The two that are still together are my best friends. The girl confided by telling me several times along the way (when she was 18, 19, and 21) that she is not sure. She loved him very much, and didnt really think about getting with anyone else, but being young, being a teenager involves so much more than a relationship, at least to many people, and i think that must be respected. Look, what she told me was, that she would really love to go abroad on an exchange program, but her bf would go nuts over it, as he would be missing her too much. But also oether things, like just going out with Gf and having fun was something she felt she was missing out on. And this is where it gets tricky.

She could go out with her gf anyways right? True. But it is a fine line, where she doesnt want to really get it on with guys (cause she loves my friend) but she wants to feel like she cóuld, if she wanted to. It was a psychological thing to her, going out with girlfriends with a sense of unattachedness, even though she would never dream of doing anything with anyone else, as she doesnt want to compromise her relationship with my friend. Eventually, she didnt ask that time apart, and they became more a couple than ever. I never asked her again if she feels she's missing out, as i dont wanna jeopardize their relationship. Back then it was a really big problem to her, she cried for days cause she didnt want to hurt my friend, but also didnt want to have that feeling she missed out on being a teenager, by the age of forty or earlier.

I still fear that she will regret later on in life, something that might damage their possible marriage. Blame is easy at that point.

The other couple broke up at 21, not because of this reason, there were some cheating problems. But from the girl i also know she felt she was missing out on being a teen. Im including them to let you know it is a very very common problem.

Look, there are always more than one options open. Gig may be right in that she is softly letting you know she wants to break up, but she doesnt want to say it to your face. Maybe...but the only thing, in my opinion, arguing for that perspective, is that she doesnt have a problem with you having oral sex. I find that weird, i would never want that, and if my gf in that case could do that as well, i wouldnt want her back. I would talk to her about this, and mae sure what the deal is, and lay your law down on this, if you feel she should not have aný kind of sex. I find kissing different, but each has a different perspective on this.

But, as ive said, i dont believe she is leading you on, judging from your two posts. I've seen this more than one time, and even though each case is different, i think all she wants, is to feel a teenager for a while. You said she might only need a summer for it, i can understand that, as the summer always holds the coolest stuff to do with friends. She wouldnt give you that timeframe i think, if she wanted to secretively break up.

Whta to do now then. Look, the last thing you want to make her feel, is that you are the one inhibiting her from a teenagelife. I know you dont feel you missed out, that is very cool, but of course, people are different, let her enjoy her time. Cause if you would be the one making her feel restrained, it is easier to think: i'm not so sure about him anymore. So give her that space, just like you said you already are. Just law down the law on the sexual part, i am very principled on that, and you seem to be also, sex is not something to be shared just with anyone.

Many have talked about how you will get back together if you are meant for eachother. But judging from your posts, and from what i have seen with others, that is not even the question. I think she still feels she is with you, only she needs to be single in her actions for a while. I hope all is well in the meantime dude.

Laterz

 

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ItalianStallion: I have never known her to be a lady that doesn't say exactly what she means, she is pretty blunt about things most of the time. But I like that, it is better than dealing with someone that beats around the bush, so I know that she is not going to leave me in the long run, I have her word she still wants me more than ever, but she just needs to do this for herself, and our relationship.

 

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gigantikok: Love can blind true judgement.

Just remember that.

 

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Javierdude22: Hey man, i was just wondering. Did it all work out ok with your gf? (Cause summer is closing up and all).

 

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jerkin4-10: italian stallion...dude...im 43...been married for coming up on 25 years in a couple of months...have a twin cousin [girl, dont ask] same age that was in the same situation...heres the deal from the womans perspective...a little phrase my twin mentioned to me...
'i went from my fathers house, to my husbands house'
simply put, she never was allowed to build her own separate identity...she was always, daughter, wife, then mommy...never experienced just 'being' nancy...
er...not nancy...er..sue...yeah sue...thats it...*L*... wifey
felt much the same way...not that that is a BAD thing...
but it does allow her to experience things that she could not being either in her fathers house or her husbands house...like someone said...a time of growth...
not necessarily a time of separation...like when you pick a tomato off the vine...you dont get one that hasnt changed colors yet and still green...you want one that is 'done' and ripe...she just need to 'ripen' up...you need to appreciate her wisdom...she'll be back...and thats the way you need to look at this...its not a slam on you...this is ALL ABOUT HER, need to experience life on her own for a while...i have 2 daughters, 22, 21...i encouraged both of them to do the same...and they are both out of the house...on their own...happily...let her go...she WILL be back...

 

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sudas: I don't know much. But I'll put in my two cents. I do agree with the above statement that she has to find out who she is.

1) Cool it for a while. If you're calling her everyday she's never had a chance to miss you. Make a plan for next Saturday, say, and don't get talk or get together until then. When you go on vacation for two weeks, mail her a letter or postcard but don't call her, then bring back a present. This is different from trying to make her jealous.

2) Think of the line from the Matrix. >You'll know you're the One when you feel it from balls to bones<. This could apply for love, too.

 

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ItalianStallion: Javierdude23 Everything is going great with my girl, we are not back together yet. I am not 100% if we will be by the end of the summer. But my girl and I are doing well, she respects me very much for understanding and staying by her during this hard time. I have many friends that would drop their girl in a second if their girl told them that she wanted to be free for a while. My lady understands that it hurts me, and she thinks that I am a man among men for doing this. She is being very thankful of all that I am going through for her, we both know that this is probably one of the hardest things we are going to deal with as a couple. But I am getting used to the situation, I know she will be back, and if I just keep being the same sweet guy I was when we were together she will come back sooner. The clingy issue has changed dramatically, for a while she didn't want to be clingy because we weren't techinally a couple, but now she is back to her clingy self. I see things a little differently now that I am starting to truly understand where she is coming from. I know that in the long run this will only strengthen us, she will respect and trust me even more. I still and I don't think I will ever have urges to be with anyone else while we aren't together, she told be that she has messed around with a couple of guys. This doesn't hurt me, because it has been almost three months and she has only touched two or three guys. What really made me happy was when she told me how it hurt her to be sexual with other guys, because afterwards she was torn apart by the fact that it wasn't me that she was kissing. Before this time apart she had only been sexual with me, and during this time apart she told me that she gave one of the guys a hand job, and her exact words were "his penis was so small, it must have only been five or six inches, it just didn't turn me on at all". The other guys she said she only kissed. Honestly I don't really care to hear what she is doing, but she has a desire to tell me, because she doesn't want to hide anything. That is about all I have to say for an update, we are getting along awesome, she says that everything is going great between us, and that she is looking forward to getting back together.

 

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Javierdude22: Dude, that is great news , i'm glad everything is gonna work out for you guys.

 

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GreenEyes: I have to admit I didn't read every single post here but I have an idea of what you have been through. (I can see a lot of people are long winded here and that is a good thing)

First off I am happy that things are working out at present.

Now my observation and take it from where it comes from a 37 years old single woman on the internet.....

You said you are 18 years old and that is young and I assume she is your first love as you are hers. That is one of the most beautiful things in life we can experience. It is however one of the hardest things to maintain for the rest of your life. One major reason is people mature, interest change, goals are diffferent and some just grow apart or one remains the same as the other changes, et al. So many different variations but if you can hold on to that love as well as she with you I am sure it will be powerful.

I know at 18 I had so many different ideals and what not. Then 21 I changed beliefs and things I wanted in life. At 25 other revelations cause now I was working. At 30 I felt inpowered. At 35 I felt like the biological clock was ticking. Now at this age I am not the same person in many ways as that 18 years old I once was.

From experience I have met many married friends and what not. Some got married young but most waited until after college. The ones that got married young are now on their second or third spouse. The percentage of those that did get married young and stayed together at this age is small. I have even seen friends that were an older age and who I thought could fit the ideal couple begin to crumble lately.

Married friends for whatever reasons have complained to me thinking that they missed out on something in life. That single people are getting sex left and right in all sorts of different positions and what not. A different lover whenever you want. For as a single woman I would say it doesn't change my bed from being lonely at night. Then a married friend would say I am sharing my bed but still feel that lonliness. It is the whole "Grass Is Greener" concept.

If you truly love her and she you both of you will figure out a way to grow together and to accept the changes in your lives together with no regrets. For there will be changes. It is inevitable and even at this age I am in constant change.

The key word is no REGRET andI think this might have been her her logic in the trial seperation and let's date others. She wants you but yet she wants to make sure she will have no regrets.

From the sounds of it both of you have come up with a plan of action to make things work. Do not be suprise if you break up and get back together a couple of times more down the line. Do not even be suprise if one day you question things you might feel you missed out on and what not.

She is a lucky woman remember that always and do not doubt your self worth either. It is not healthy to base who you are or your happiness on another person. The who you are is within you and as you get older you get more comfortable and secure with that. So do the best to finish college or a trade. Get a job you like and work on yourself. The rest will fall into play if it is meant to be.

I do wish you both luck that you can make this work. Relationships aren't easy even though we want them to be. It is a whole lot of work with scarifices and what not.

 

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holycow: Dude,

I've just taken two hours out of my life to sign up for this board and looked up some links just so I can give you some advice. I hope you will take the time to read what I say and give it serious consideration.

The advice you've gotten on this board sounds like you were on the Oprah show. A lot of the advice has been basically saying don't care about your own needs but try to accomodate her needs. This is a formula guaranteed to result in the outcome you don't want.

Here are the truths that I see in your situation.

1) You've probably lost her.

2) She wants to keep her options open so that if her current fling doesn't work out she can come back to you.

3) If she does come back to you she will have no respect for you and she will leave you again in the future.

4) It is her lack of respect for you and your lack of respect for yourself that has gotten you into this situation.

===

I could write on this topic for many pages, but I'll just lay the ideas in front of you and if you're interested you can dig out more info yourself.

I'll probably be flamed as being an insensitive caveman for having this attitude, but so be it. I'm in a great relationship today because I have learned to respect myself in a relationship and not be a doormat. I have had my share of doormat relationships in the past.

===

Here are some of the things you said in your original post and my thought about them.

So she wants to be just friends for a while until she figures everything out.

Just friends is the kiss of death. It means that she has lost her physical attraction to you.

She told me not to worry and that if I acted like a man about it then we would get back together sooner

In a perverse way that is true. It's just that what she meant there by acting like a man would be to act like a doormat. If you had indeed acted like a man when she said that to you then the whole thing would have been dropped right then, or the relationship would have ended then. You wouldn't have to be undergoing this turmoil right now.

please someone help me understand what I am supposed to do, and what is going on in her head

What you are supposed to do is ask yourself if you like feeling like you do now. If the answer is no then decide that she's not worth it and call this thing off yourself. If you call it off yourself you can come out of this with some dignity left. If you let her be the one to finally call it off you will be scarred for years. As for what's going on in her head, that'll be something you'll not ever get to know. Even if she tells you what was going on in her head you have no way of knowing if she is really telling you the truth.

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Here's what I recommend that you do.

1) Come to accept that the relationship is over. You're better off without her. There is only a very slight chance that the relationship can be saved. If it can be saved, then doing what I suggest here gives you the best chance to save it, but you need to accept that the relationship is over.

2) Be sad if you wish, but don't be angry at her. Both of you are young and you don't have much experience at these types of things.

3) Mentally prepare yourself that you want to be the one to end the relationship, not her. If you can be the one to end it, then your time to heal up will be much less than if you let her be the one to end it.

4) Once you've completed step 3, then call her up and tell her something like the following: I feel that I've spent enough time in this limbo. I think you may still need some more time however, so I am going to move on and start to date in ernest, with no restrictions. Maybe at some time in the future if we're both not dating anyone else and you want to try again we can. When you do this you should not express any anger, hostility, hurt, spite, curiosity about her love-life, etc. It will be ok to express a slight sadness and sense of loss, etc. Be a gentleman throughout the whole process. Do not let her derail you here. If she says that she is through with the time apart and is ready to re-establish the relationship now then that would be great. If she says anything else such as waiting a while longer, or that what you said hurt her, or anything other than back together right now, then you should just proceed with making the breakup permanent.[/b]

5) Get on with your life. There's lots of women out there who will treat you better than she has. Happy hunting.

For lots more info about your situation I recommend the following links at the site askmen.com. It's a great site for dating and relationship advice, although lots of women really hate it because it helps a man look after himself in a relationship.

Good Luck

=====

Being a challenge to a woman

Don't be a nice guy.

Nice guys finish last

Time off in a relationship spells trouble

 

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AnonyMs: holycow, dude!

Far from being flames, I appreciate a well thought out, well written different perspective. You may very well be right.

Hope we hear more from you!

nony

 

[Max]

holycow,

I have to say that I agree 100% with your basic approach, and it always worked for me.  I suppose in my case it was just instinct, not a conscious method, ... shortly after I first met her and before I really got to know her very well or had fallen for her I heard my wife talking very negatively about a guy (a would be boyfriend) who had turned her off by following her, always being there etc ...

I made a mental note "You'd never have that complaint to make about me" and in fact it was always the case, before we were married, that she saw less of me than she wanted .... I wasn't always available for her etc.  Not manipulation, just the way my life was.  But it worked a treat  .   I think a man knows when a woman has fallen in love with him; if she has she doesn't tend to hold back from commitment.

Of course, I am less sure about Stallion's situation, only he can judge that.  But my initial reaction was pretty much what yours has been.

 

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Javierdude22: Holycow, you obviously feel strong about this subject, since, as you mentioned, you became a member to reply to this post. Your reply is very elaborate, kudos on the effort man.

What I would like people to caution about is that, instead of actually helping the person by dealing with their explicit situation, they  give a very biased opinion because of some bad experiences. Of course it is obvious people should reply out of own experience, but a little nuance wouldn't hurt either I think in order not to completely upset the dude. The story he put in text for us can only tell us só much, and we might turn things upside down unnecessarily

I might be putting salt on each snail with this...but I just think that something as delicate and important as a relationship someone feels strong about should be handled with care.

I also find it to be a sad world if it is thought of as 'undesirable' if a guy or girl is totally smittens over the other and basically there for them no matter what. Always being there  for the other doesn't mean suffocating them, but basically letting them know that if they would ask, you'd be there. It doesnt mean you push yourself onto the other, but you let them know your available whenever. Each has their own life with their own friends, family, hobbies, but if my significant other would need my company, attention, or advice, i'm there, and of course i expect the same. Letting someone see you just enough to make them want you, but not enough to get tired of you works if you want a relationship that doesn't move further. Not if you wanna get ahead.

 

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doghorn: I think what holycow said is correct for most people.  There's a chance that Italian Stallion's girlfriend isn't someone who will respond to holycow's suggestions, but only a small chance.  

Holycow said what needed to be said.  Whenever one of us gave a gentler answer, I.S. or anyone of his age in his situation would just read into it what he wants to hear.  Holycow said it in a way that you can't turn it around.

A woman's respect is the most important thing you must preserve in any relationship.  Most women want a man who will not take abuse.   It may take several situations like this for I.S. to learn where to draw the line.  Just like Holycow learned and just like I learned.  It's life.  I do wish I.S. luck.  Holycow, you wrote a great post.

Ron