"bbc", "mandingo", Is It Racial Fetishization Of Black Men?

[SirHungDevon]

@SirHungDevon

I'm confused, aren't Black women fetishized just as much as Black men? For every BBC - Mandingo stereotype there's a Venus Hottentot. Exaggerated breasts and bums. Narrow waist, wide hips, or just busty and oversized proportions in general. Even down to more modern forms of discrimination in terms of black women being too Ghetto, or automatically from the hood. It's all the same really. East/South East Asian people, both men and women, have a similar experience, but instead they are undersized, small and petite, with small tits and dicks, narrow waists, small bums, lack of body hair.

I don't think this is a straight vs gay thing either. The dominant well endowed black seems to be as common in the gay community as it is in the straight world...

I could be wrong, but I think all these old time stereotypes and all forms of racial fetishization are based in dehumanisation. Of course your going to get people of all genders and ethnicities pushing these fantasies, myths, view points... whether that's because they are uneducated on the subject, or even genuinely believe these things due to there own personal experience. But I think it's naive and a little self hating to look inwards and blame black men or black women of said community. This all has it's roots in racism, dehumanisation and superiority.

Have you read any pages of the thread leading up to my statement for context, especially given that it was a reply to another with whom there has been conversation? Why do people respond to things without context?

Specifically, where did I say it is not rooted in racism, dehumanisation or superiority?

I have more than once stated it comes from a white masculine narrative (read more specifically now, colonial slavery). I further explained that black men then perpetrated - read, not created, it to someone who believes it is up to black women to fix as if black women started it in any shape, fashion, or form.

What exactly was missed?

 

[Sagittarius84]

I agree to disagree.

@AllieHeidi, as noted, anything and everything to blame and charge responsibility to black women because black men are, can, and will never be the problem or ever even part of it, thus never part of the solution. I hope black women do what they believe is in their best interest because I, and you, already know black men will do the same often to the detriment of and still find a reason to blame black women without taking any responsibility.

I really wish people would learn to discern between blame and accountability. Black men are not to blame for colorism or hair texturism, but I dont think you'd have any issue in calling black men to take accountability for their buy in to the biases and stigmas, ultimately to the detriment of black women. White supremacy, chattel slavery, Jim Crow, etc., if you want the foundational pillars to blame, they are there and will forever be shouted unto to the rooftops. But for accountability, black men had to first acknowledge the light skin, European haired biases they were operating in, then most importantly, shift the culture so that natural hair and dark skin, aka the "natural black girl" archetype, was added to the lexicon of the black male gaze. As such I don't think there today exists an able bodied archetype of black woman that is not ideologically desired by some large and vocal portion of black men, and socially reflected as per mating and dating preference.
We both bought into the lies, it's neither of our faults the fetishizing exists, but we both have accountability for buying into the lie, and it appears at least to me that only the men have collectively assessed their accountability, but more importantly objectively enacted ways to go against the lie we bought into the first place.
If you talk to "divestors" or black women whom express a preference for white guys despite black girl fetishes that run afoot, they tend to collectively have come to these conclusions specifically because they felt unvalued or undesired by black men, nobody really bats an eye and are typically content to wag their fingers at us as black men for not valuing the traits these women tend to have in common...objectively I think reticular focus makes this a bullshit argument, but subjectively the logic is sound.

 

[SirHungDevon]

I really wish people would learn to discern between blame and accountability.

OK. Accountability.

Initially, I wrote a dissertation, and honestly, we could argue til the day is a day no more. For the sake of perceiving truth, I leave you with this: the situation will remain until the masculine narrative, which has forced Black women to become more masculine and thus want hypermasculinity, is addressed.

Even if black women changed their sexual selection hierarchy to reflect that of another ideal, black men would still use the fetishism to their benefit. Unless you are arguing the single ideal will do away with the archetype carrying much weight altogether, it will discard very few ill-affects of BBC fetishism if any (read, your claim, black men still see black women as Jezebel to varying degrees). Apart from this new archetypical man loving black women more than merely her body for sexual pleasure and child-birthing, black men will still deprioritize her desires (given the current masculine narrative), in turn making her embody more masculinity to go search for her desires and repeating the cycle.

The solution is for black men to take accountability for their masculinity, to include responsibilities, without the need to deprioritize women's desires, thereby allowing women to feel safe in their feminity; but that is a conversation for which many black men are not prepared to have.

Also, your argument rests solely on the sexual realm - a masculine perspective, as if women's sexuality is the same; it is not, and to argue otherwise is to buy the masculine narrative.

Regardless, we can and I do agree to disagree, and bow out of that conversation. Neither group will settle. The difference: One realized that settling further disadvantaged them in a narrative that already disadvantaged them. Meanwhile, the other appears to build on the back of the one positioned lower and seems to feel no/little responsibility in helping to lift them apart from them being a sexual body.

 

[borg1125]

I live in West Hollywood, not Hollywood. It’s a whole different place

Not by much.

 

[Keepitsmooth]

Not by much.

Why you keep talking about things you clearly don’t know? West Hollywood is a whole other city in LA. Hollywood is part of LA city, but West Hollywood is its own city. We have our own mayor which is different from LA mayor. West Hollywood is much nicer and safer than Hollywood and is considered the gay area of LA

 

[Fishsqueezee69]

OK. Accountability.

Initially, I wrote a dissertation, and honestly, we could argue til the day is a day no more. For the sake of perceiving truth, I leave you with this: the situation will remain until the masculine narrative, which has forced Black women to become more masculine and thus want hypermasculinity, is addressed.

Even if black women changed their sexual selection hierarchy to reflect that of another ideal, black men would still use the fetishism to their benefit. Unless you are arguing the single ideal will do away with the archetype carrying much weight altogether, it will discard very few ill-affects of BBC fetishism if any (read, your claim, black men still see black women as Jezebel to varying degrees). Apart from this new archetypical man loving black women more than merely her body for sexual pleasure and child-birthing, black men will still deprioritize her desires (given the current masculine narrative), in turn making her embody more masculinity to go search for her desires and repeating the cycle.

The solution is for black men to take accountability for their masculinity, to include responsibilities, without the need to deprioritize women's desires, thereby allowing women to feel safe in their feminity; but that is a conversation for which many black men are not prepared to have.

Also, your argument rests solely on the sexual realm - a masculine perspective, as if women's sexuality is the same; it is not, and to argue otherwise is to buy the masculine narrative.

Regardless, we can and I do agree to disagree, and bow out of that conversation. Neither group will settle. The difference: One realized that settling further disadvantaged them in a narrative that already disadvantaged them. Meanwhile, the other appears to build on the back of the one positioned lower and seems to feel no/little responsibility in helping to lift them apart from them being a sexual body.

What is the "benefit" of BBC fetishism?

 

[SirHungDevon]

What is the "benefit" of BBC fetishism?

Social currency and power in a narrative that seeks control.

 

[enjoyn247]

The one common theme that brought us all here is the admiration and affection for the man himself. I may have been uninformed as well, this was a good eye opener for me. But we all are showing love so that's a positive to me

 

[bigboaster]

The one common theme that brought us all here is the admiration and affection for the man himself. I may have been uninformed as well, this was a good eye opener for me. But we all are showing love so that's a positive to me

what are you talking about??

 

[enjoyn247]

what are you talking about??

Just trying to be positive

 

[unknown975]

I came across an interesting article that was posted in the North Texas Daily on November 7th 2020. It's short but I think it's a worthy read for anyone that is interested in seeing it from another point of view. This is a topic that I feel strongly about as a black male who has been fetishized constantly on different apps. A lot of people don't really consider the origin of certain words that we commonly see. The porn industry has contributed to a lot of the sexual stereotypes of black men and women. Check the link below to read the article.

Fetishization of Black men is a form of prejudice

Each person may have his or her taste and it's alright. If, for instance, a black dude is into white chicks (or vice versa) and gets to date one, as long as there's consent between these two, I see nothing wrong. At the end of the day, it is none of our business.

I don't believe in that "racial fetishization" concept. When you're attracted to someone, there's a reason why. You got taste, you got fantasies, nothing wrong with that. When a non-black isn't attracted to blacks, they say that person is "racist". If someone loves a specific "race", there must be fetishization.

Racism is real. Colonizations and slavery happened shouldn't be ignored. But saying "this all transfers into a form of hypersexualization of the Black man", I disagree.

 

[Fishsqueezee69]

Social currency and power in a narrative that seeks control.

Eh, ?

No one benefits from being treated like an object. Dehumanizing black men serves of no benefit to them.

Can you give concrete examples?

 

[SirHungDevon]

Eh, ?

No one benefits from being treated like an object. Dehumanizing black men serves of no benefit to them.

Can you give concrete examples?

OK. Then you tell me why black men use the term BBC to refer to themselves if it doesn't advantage/benefit them in some fashion, shape, form or way. Or why black men say that it is one of the few stereotypes placed on them that can be seen as a positive. I'll wait.

I see a lot of black men making money (awh, financial benefit) by highlighting their big dicks as BBC. An advantage or benefit or using something to your advantage/benefit does not necessarily mean it cannot disadvantage you in other ways.

Maybe it's your black and white thinking that makes you unable to understand my answer to your question.

 

[SirHungDevon]

And to clarify some things.

What is the "benefit" of BBC fetishism?

This question is not the same as asking, "How does BBC fetishism benefit black men?" I, however, presumed, based on your previous black-and-white thinking, it was the direction your argument was taking. Your response appears to prove me correct. But to answer both the actual question and the presumed one:

It benefits - and always has, the people in charge by keeping those affected by the dehumanization distracted or otherwise occupied so people in power can maintain control. Whether someone perpetrates the stereotype, tries to help those who do not see it for what it is, etc., it delays them uniting against the powers that be, thus granting those in power more time to reinforce their control.

For black men - especially those fitting the stereotyping, who perpetuate the narrative, it grants social currency, a means by which to influence how people interact with them for some desired outcome. Many black men - whether they embodied the stereotype or not, have leveraged the stereotype in pursuit of sex, and those who do (or loosely) fit that standard have oft commodified it, be it to bolster their ego, fill their wallets, and even seek the approval of and positioning by those pushing the narrative. These actions do not and are not meant to change the dehumanizing nature of the narrative. Arguing it does not benefit someone in some way disregards the purpose and perpetration of the stereotype.

If you found it difficult to comprehend any aspect of this given your thinking, perhaps it is time to think more pragmatically. Regardless, I leave you with this:

Apart from being brainwashed to a degree not to understand what can assist you in achieving some goal or purpose, if it did not provide some benefit/advantage in some shape, fashion, form, or way, why would black men of their free will even use the term BBC other than to be critical of it? I ask this question differentiated from what it appears you are attempting to argue, namely that it does not benefit black men's character development for the better. If this is the case, your argument should specify that. Likewise, your initial question should have designated the subject of benefit.

 

[BigNavy]

And to clarify some things.

This question is not the same as asking, "How does BBC fetishism benefit black men?" I, however, presumed, based on your previous black-and-white thinking, it was the direction your argument was taking. Your response appears to prove me correct. But to answer both the actual question and the presumed one:

It benefits - and always has, the people in charge by keeping those affected by the dehumanization distracted or otherwise occupied so people in power can maintain control. Whether someone perpetrates the stereotype, tries to help those who do not see it for what it is, etc., it delays them uniting against the powers that be, thus granting those in power more time to reinforce their control.

For black men - especially those fitting the stereotyping, who perpetuate the narrative, it grants social currency, a means by which to influence how people interact with them for some desired outcome. Many black men - whether they embodied the stereotype or not, have leveraged the stereotype in pursuit of sex, and those who do (or loosely) fit that standard have oft commodified it, be it to bolster their ego, fill their wallets, and even seek the approval of and positioning by those pushing the narrative. These actions do not and are not meant to change the dehumanizing nature of the narrative. Arguing it does not benefit someone in some way disregards the purpose and perpetration of the stereotype.

If you found it difficult to comprehend any aspect of this given your thinking, perhaps it is time to think more pragmatically. Regardless, I leave you with this:

Apart from being brainwashed to a degree not to understand what can assist you in achieving some goal or purpose, if it did not provide some benefit/advantage in some shape, fashion, form, or way, why would black men of their free will even use the term BBC other than to be critical of it? I ask this question differentiated from what it appears you are attempting to argue, namely that it does not benefit black men's character development for the better. If this is the case, your argument should specify that. Likewise, your initial question should have designated the subject of benefit.

You say alot of words, but don't communicate a very clear message.

Your one point "so people in power can maintain control"...what people and what power?

Sorry to say, but this seems like a dead end argument for ya.

Apologies to you for whatever "they" did to hurt you.

 

[SirHungDevon]

You say alot of words, but don't communicate a very clear message.

Your one point "so people in power can maintain control"...what people and what power?

Sorry to say, but this seems like a dead end argument for ya.

Apologies to you for whatever "they" did to hurt you.

Says the person who only came to share that a stereotype - a widely held but oversimplified idea, is not true based on anecdotal evidence without anything of substance to provide to the conversation, yet wants another to qualify a statement. Other threads ask about this stereotype, yet you are not there. My apologies that you are unaware that the narrative comes from colonial slavery upon which America was built. Then again, it is easier to refute than it is to argue a point, especially when you do not have one to begin or one worth noting.

People like you appear to understand America has power because of its military and because of this and that, and then act like you don't understand the concept of power. But to inquire of you, who is it that controls the media narrative in America, for instance, or even the porn industry where the stereotype is often featured? Then again, maybe you'll argue next that these things just come out of thin air instead of researching things such as indoctrination.

 

[dylz]

what does a man who enjoys pretending to be straight (despite sleeping with more guys than most gay men ever will) and refers to his genitals as a "big white cock" in between utterances of "fawk yeah bro" think he has to contribute to this thread?

 

[HOU_HEADHUNTER]

Each person may have his or her taste and it's alright. If, for instance, a black dude is into white chicks (or vice versa) and gets to date one, as long as there's consent between these two, I see nothing wrong. At the end of the day, it is none of our business.

I don't believe in that "racial fetishization" concept. When you're attracted to someone, there's a reason why. You got taste, you got fantasies, nothing wrong with that. When a non-black isn't attracted to blacks, they say that person is "racist". If someone loves a specific "race", there must be fetishization.

Racism is real. Colonizations and slavery happened shouldn't be ignored. But saying "this all transfers into a form of hypersexualization of the Black man", I disagree.

Please cut the bs. You may not believe in the concept of racial fetishization but it is real. Feel free to educate yourself because I'm not going to continue to repeat talking points to help people like you understand. There are 38 pages worth of responses that you can read. The information is out there. This is just one place where you can find sources but I'd say go over to Reddit also. A lot of black men speak out against this. Furthermore, the only black men that complain about someone of another race not being attracted to them are the black men who only desire men of other races and they are a very small group in comparison.

 

[Sagittarius84]

The solution is for black men to take accountability for their masculinity, to include responsibilities, without the need to deprioritize women's desires, thereby allowing women to feel safe in their feminity; but that is a conversation for which many black men are not prepared to have.

You're absolutely right, black men culturally aren't as enthusiastic about pandering to women and infantilizing their decision making process.


This has been covered before in the analogy about the elk...and there's a very simple reason why male elk dont avail themselves of the stress, injuries and mortal danger of huge antlers and aggressive behaviors even when doing so would bring less scrutiny to male and female elk alike...am I to take it you think female elk will just simply start to diversify their mating preferences if horns/aggressive behavior became more scarce, or do you recognize the horned aggressive males will just be granted access to that many more mating opportunities, whilst the better behaved more responsible elk will see their genetic lines end?
I could have sworn "Idiocracy" covered this.

 

[unknown975]

Please cut the bs. You may not believe in the concept of racial fetishization but it is real. Feel free to educate yourself because I'm not going to continue to repeat talking points to help people like you understand. There are 38 pages worth of responses that you can read. The information is out there. This is just one place where you can find sources but I'd say go over to Reddit also. A lot of black men speak out against this. Furthermore, the only black men that complain about someone of another race not being attracted to them are the black men who only desire men of other races and they are a very small group in comparison.

There's always been superficial individuals who date others for what they have (money, physique, …) or what they seem to reflect (power, stereotype, …) but don't give a fly about their feelings, I get it. At the end of the day you got choice about letting others treat you like that or not.