no, Dooku died a Sith and was far from being a Jedi. And that is just one example
Gay or Nah?
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Why are you using women with biologically abnormalities in your arguments? When you and biological women started from two different starting points, excluding people who are intersex.
Because trans women are also abnormal? They are the only ones we can compare to trans people`s situation
It is a neurological abnormality.
Anyway, shifting gears back to the topic:
Gay men having PIV sex with trans men isn't gay sex because trans men are biologically female. These men have (negligible) hints of bisexuality and are not gay. Biology matters when it comes to sexual orientation.
Bisexuals need to stop adding to their own erasure problem and just be honest so as not to harm the rest of the community by spreading problematic ideas about "sexual fluidity." This will only throw fuel into the homophobic fire by vindicating narratives such as "we can be fixed if we find the right man/woman."
This type of shit right here needs to stop.
Anyway, shifting gears back to the topic:
Gay men having PIV sex with trans men isn't gay sex because trans men are biologically female. These men have (negligible) hints of bisexuality and are not gay. Biology matters when it comes to sexual orientation.
Bisexuals need to stop adding to their own erasure problem and just be honest so as not to harm the rest of the community by spreading problematic ideas about "sexual fluidity." This will only throw fuel into the homophobic fire by vindicating narratives such as "we can be fixed if we find the right man/woman."
This type of shit right here needs to stop.
so a biological abnormality, thank you. I never disputed that PIV sex isn`t gay
Yes. You've been derailing this thread off topic for quite some time, now. It was originally meant to further examine how to categorize the sexual orientation of men who identify as gay but still have sexual relations with the opposite sex under certain "conditions" (i.e. they look male from the waist up).
Then there are the certifiably worst "gay" men who openly admit to being sexually aroused by vaginas. But nope, this is definitely not a harmful sentiment to put out in the stratosphere. Especially in these delicate times. Nope not at all. Because God forbid these bisexuals actually identify themselves as such. That would require honesty and accountability aka their kryptonite.
The only other appropriate parallel for this I can think of is age. I don't think a man that is attracted to an underage girl that presents as older is inherently a pedophile/hebephile, just like I would consider a man that is attracted to a non disclosed, cis female appearing transwoman as heterosexual....until disclosure happens, at which point you are a predator or you are gay/bisexual respectively.
Non western nations seem to have resolved this yrs ago, wherein transwomen are considered a 3rd sex altogether, or are very upfront in disclosure....why are ladyboys a normalized part of Thai culture, but transwomen demand cis female conflagration in the West?
Non western nations seem to have resolved this yrs ago, wherein transwomen are considered a 3rd sex altogether, or are very upfront in disclosure....why are ladyboys a normalized part of Thai culture, but transwomen demand cis female conflagration in the West?
Correct. Once you are aware that the individual is actually female/male but still have no problems being sexually intimate with that person, congratulations, you're bisexual. Trans people are, indeed, a different category of gender. I'm not sure why the West is so ambivalent to the idea of admitting this while also pushing for more diversity.
Trans men are not the same as biological men. They are different. And there is nothing wrong with being different. It's almost like this difference is somehow frowned upon by Western society which, ironically, is the exact opposite of being inclusive.
Sorry but are you dumb? Why would a gay man be attracted to female anatomy? Trans women are phenotypically female, how is that appealing to gay men whatsoever? And straight men can be attracted to a post op "cis passing" trans person and either not care or "get over it" after disclosure. And you know why? Because she is phenotypically female, we are attracted to phenotypical sex, not genetics. You seem to ascribe an immutable male essence to trans women, as if their biological changes were negligible and could never be possibly accepted as women by straight men, no matter what. What if a straight man feels attraction to a CAIS woman with undescended testicles on her abdomen (she has more male anatomy than a cis passing post op trans woman as a result) who was born with a vagina? Is he gay or bisexual if he knowingly engages with her? She is phenotypically female and genetically male.
Thailand is not the trans paradise you make it out to be, transphobia is still widespread and trans people are subtly mocked. The reason "ladyboys" aren`t like trans people in the West is because they are more conformist and aren`t as empowered, it`s part of East Asian culture in a way, the lack of boldness. Trans women in Thailand are usually upfront in disclosure because they are almost always pre op as sex reassignment surgery is too expensive and they usually have very precarious and low paid jobs, and that is if they are not in sex work. Trans people in Thailand cannot even change their legal name or sex, so it is no paradise for trans people.
You must not confuse your closed mindedness on this with a homogeneous view by cis straight men on this subject, my current boyfriend never thought about dating a trans woman and would`ve probably been averse to the idea, but of course I disclosed my transness to him after almost a year of dating and that made a difference on the end result. He is heterosexual btw, exclusively attracted to females
No, you are not bisexual, because you are attracted to phenotypic sex, not genetical sex. By your standards, attraction to any intersex individual would be bisexual or unclassifiable. Trans men are not biologically female, they aren`t entirely biologically male either, they are artifically induced intersex. Ditto for trans women. I swear you people have a lack of intelligence and don`t understand the basis of sexual attraction and sexual orientation.
Hormones change gene expression and alter sexual phenotype, which is the basis of sexual orientation and has served as a proxy for gonadal sex since time immemorial.
Don't mind me. Just reminding people that the vast majority of trans people are reasonable and have common sense. Please don't assume otherwise.
Carry on.
Carry on.
You have no arguments because you are guided by bigotry. Actually the vast majority of trans people agree with everything I have said and think Buck Angel is a traitor, so stop putting him as an example. Just take a look at mainstream trans subs, they say he is a transphobe.
this is what they think of Buck in ftm forums:
"I had a conversation with Buck in the comments of his instagram maybe 6-12 months ago? I don't remember details but the gist was I was asking did he not think fully medically transitioned people (e.g a trans man on T, with no breasts, no gametes, and/or bottom surgery) should be considered as their transitioned sex (so male for that example)
His response was quick and sharp and to the tone of "you are delusional, you can never change your sex, trans men are females who lives as men". Followed by an onslaught of right wing transphobes saying relatively the same thing. Absolutely shocked me. His twitter bio has "female who lives as a man" in it. Im pretty sure he supports JK Rowling. Dunno why he pushes the narrative he does, probably because he wants money from what he does and it's easier right now to obtain support on trans folk if you're transphobic
Back 5 or so years ago I was excited to know about trans men who found sexual freedom and societal empowerment living as their true selves without bottom surgery. Now his name is a giant red flag to me.
If i can find screenshots of the insta conversation later I might add an edit to this comment with some golden quotes lmao."
"He's pretty much what people accuse transmeds of being, he's one of the extremely rare trans transphobes. Trans women especially, he can be super vicious towards us. I think I saw him on a stream with Kalvin a while ago and he seemed pretty nice on there but regardless of how he is in person that doesn't really justify his transphobia and attacks on trans women."
he is one of the few trans people who are actually transphobicHow dare him. Clearly he needs to be drawn and quartered.
The more people like you keep pushing the narrative that stating biological facts is "transphobic" the more you are going to push the very people you want and need support from away. People are getting tired of the bullying and insistence on reality denial.
- It is not transphobic to acknowledge that trans men are biologically female.
- Sex cannot be changed because it is coded into DNA and determined the moment a sperm fertilizes an egg (i.e. Y chromosome-carrying sperm = male fetus, X chromosome-carrying sperm = female fetus).
- Sex hormones do not determine sex, otherwise women with PCOS and hairy chins would be male and men with gynecomastia (read: man boobs) would be female.
- Sex is not "assigned" at birth, it is observed and recorded before and after birth.
- Gay men who knowingly have intercourse with trans men are slightly bisexual. Straight men who knowingly have intercourse with trans women are also slightly bisexual.
Now, kindly make like Bill Withers and have a lovely day.
We don`t need fake allies anyways. Just to educate you btw,
- Trans men are not biologically female, they are genetically female.
- Genetic sex cannot be changed but sexual phenotype can change, they can even be inconsistent with each other like in CAIS women. We consider CAIS women as women even though they are genetically male so it`s not a stretch to do the same thing with trans people.
- Sex hormones do not determine sex but they determine sexual phenotype. If having a beard is not a male trait, then why do PCOS women suffer from dysphoria regarding their facial hair? And don`t be disingenous, PCOS will not induce a completely male phenotype in the way of a medical transition.
- Sex is assigned at birth based on observation, and yes, it is ASSIGNED because they have gotten it wrong many times (intersex people).
- Gay men who knowingly have intercourse with "cis passing" post op trans men can be completely gay. Straight men who knowingly have intercourse with "cis passing" post op trans women can be completely straight.
Good night.
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