We`ve been through this already, some cis women have neovaginas too, it is not an exclusively trans thing. I am not biologically male, I`m genetically male. Different colored contacts are not permanent, if they were, we could make a case that the individual now has X colored eyes.
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Why are you wasting your time arguing with someone like this.
This is what a woman from a female board said.
Many trans women like me have never had plastic surgery, just HRT. My bone structure didn`t need to change because I never had a male bone structure in the first place. I don`t even have testes, you doofus. HRT changes your phenotype and sex characteristics, this person is an idiot. I don`t have a neovagina made out of skin, it is made out of colon, as many cis neovaginas are. It produces lubrication on its own, not all women have a cervix, IT IS a mucous membrane and it does have a microbiome. I don`t even have to dilate anymore.
These people always get mad when we bring up intersex people because they are exceptions just like trans people and destroy their orthodox binarism. How can this person even know if I`m intersex or not when they don`t even know me? They are assuming too much. Guess what dude? Trans people were born the way we are, we were meant to transition and it is innate. You are just a bigot.
Of course feelings and identity don`t change don`t change what we are or our gene expression, but you can bet that HRT changes our gene expression. As you people like to use this as a gotcha, I will too, when forensics dig up my bones in 1000 years I will be classified as female based on my bone structure. By the way, there is no such thing as hormones foreign to a biologically male system, your knowledge in biology is severely lacking, hormones aren`t deemed foreign or compatible based on chromosomal makeup, otherwise CAIS women would not be purely based on estrogen... Smallteaplant, do not insult my intelligence with this individual and stop quoting them as if they added anything constructive to the conversation
I have no idea. I understand it's a mental disorder (gender dysphoria) that causes many of them to have these objectively untrue thoughts. So, frankly, arguing with them about how they feel is borderline cruel because they're not well.
Just as I wouldn't argue with a schizophrenic and tell them the voices aren't real, I'm going to cease and desist with this exercise in futility because it causes nothing but divisive irritation and headaches for all parties involved.
LSA remains savage. She went in kind of hard, but a lot of us are just losing patience with them. Because at the end of the day, these are biological males, who were socialized as such for a good portion of their lives (societal privileges and all), that have the audacity to claim they understand womanhood and share our experiences as females.
Frankly, until they've been sitting in an important meeting, sneezed, and ruined a new pair of panties because the elevator scene from "The Shining" decided to make an appearance in their underwear, along with the horrific cramping that they're expected to just grin, bear it, and go on with their day as if everything is peachy keen, I don't want to fucking hear it anymore.
Oh god, you just called intersex people mentally ill and delusional too as their phenotype doesn`t match their genotype. Are CAIS women delusional for considering themselves women? Don`t be condescending, I have no dysphoria anymore. FYI, many people still consider you a mentally ill lesbian, so it`s a bit rich to hear about mental illness from you.
"Losing patience with them", Gee, bigots are growing impatient, what a shocker. A fully transitioned trans woman is not biologically male, she is genetically male. Societal privileges? I transitioned as a teen and was so bullied throughout school for being clearly different from male children that I developed PTSD and suicidal thoughts, so you can shove your societal privilege nonsense up your ass.
You just insulted all women who never menstruated by calling them non women, congrats.
A woman that has never menstruated has something medically wrong with her, but she is still a woman regardless. Do not put words in my mouth by arguing against a point I never made.
Men aren't supposed to menstruate because they are male. Saying a male that doesn't menstruate is the same as a woman with a medical condition (that likely makes her infertile which is devastating for many) is insulting and you should probably refrain from going there again. Seriously.
Well, but those women cannot share your female experiences, right? After all, they cannot menstruate. You were the one who presented it as the sine qua non of femaleness. Yeah of course CAIS women for example cannot menstruate and never could, I guess they`re not women according to you. Why should I not cross the red lines you have drawn in the sand? You are clearly hostile towards trans people and do not give a shit about us or how we feel, so I wonder why I should even care.
A woman with a medical condition that prevents her from ever menstruating and/or bearing children is already living a uniquely female experience albeit one of the many negative experiences that only another female can understand. If she's of reproductive age, she's supposed to menstruate. If she is not menstruating, something is wrong with her reproductive system.
A man being told by a doctor that he can never get pregnant and have children of his own is not at all the same thing as a woman being given the same heartbreaking news because men are not supposed to be able to get pregnant and birth children. That is a pain that only a woman can feel. It is still a female experience.
![ef0zYcOodmbTMQZjkU.webp]()
I quit.
Why are you getting so frustrated? It's obvious you started this "discussion" in bad faith.
Nothing Is wrong with her reproductive system. She has goddamn testicles and no female reproductive system whatsoever.![ef0zYcOodmbTMQZjkU.webp]()
I quit.
Just because you disagree with my position on this matter doesn't mean the topic was started in "bad faith."
It is impossible to have a fruitful discussion when one side insists on using objectively wrong information to support their argument. That is what is frustrating.
It's one thing to have an opinion, it's completely different if said opinion happens to be "2+2 = 17." That is essentially what was happening here, which is why I'm done.
It's not objectively wrong information, you've just run out of ideas on how to simultaneously exclude all trans women from womanhood while not excluding some cis women by default. When you put menstruation as the sine qua non of womanhood you inevitable exclude some cis women. There Is nothing a trans woman can have as an end result that they do not share with cis women, if that bothers you then take it up with modern technology.
On God, the only thing that's not making me turn my back on the entire community is the fact that the vast majority of trans women (and trans men) have more sense than this. They're just silent and too afraid to speak out about it for fear of being shunned. Unless, they of course, just dgaf and will tell it like it is regardless:
^ Nothing she said here was inaccurate. And these are the kind of individuals who I associate with. People of any demographic that possess a modicum of common sense.
lol good for her, but I don`t have "dick at the bottom".
^Lost about a 3rd of his body in a fight and had to be relegated to a special suit.
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Thank you aheidla, for your intelligent posts in this discussion.
I for one am very appreciative for this thread and your level headed explanations for your (our) side of this debate.
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