Gay or Nah?

[Chiballana]

Again, what is a male? Your argument is essentially that appearing male is the same as actually being male. Therefore, it is you who is arguing from an ontological perspective instead of biological. Not me.

A male Is a person who produces small gametes and has XY chromosomes, also has a penis. While a trans man has no gametes and has no XX chromosomes, they have a male phenotype. They have effectively changed an aspect of their biology, their phenotype.

 

[Chiballana]

He's not against non-binary people, he disagrees that being non-binary is the same as being a trans person who has been diagnosed with gender dysphoria by medical professionals.

Of course I agree, no body part is More female than a vagina. That's why I'm only arguing for fully transitioned trans men and fully "passing" ones.

 

[deleted19151801]

Of course I agree, no body part is More female than a vagina. That's why I'm only arguing for fully transitioned trans men and fully "passing" ones.

Except that's not what this thread is primarily about, nor is it the main source of contention with 100% gay men with regards to this issue. Also, the vast majority of trans men keep their natal genitals.

So, I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish by continuing to bring up these outlier scenarios, further shifting the goalpost away from the initial issue at hand which is with the gay men who insist that having PIV sex with trans men is 100% gay sex.

 

[deleted19151801]

They have effectively changed an aspect of their biology, their phenotype.

Is a brunette who dyes their hair blonde a natural blonde who has "always been blonde" and was just mistakenly "assigned brunette at birth?"

If someone with brown eyes puts in green contacts, and the DMV lists their eye color as green on their driver's license, does that mean they were "assigned brown-eyed at birth," have always had green eyes, and are the same as someone who was born with green eyes?

 

[Kvc13]

I have since met with my trans friend and it did turn sexual. He did ask if I’d ever been with a woman and I answered honestly no. I think he thought he was in for a training session but I guess I surprised him. After going down on him, he said “this is your first time?” I nodded and he started miming applause. Lol. He guided me inside him and we fucked. I came and was able to give him an orgasm. It was hot. It was different (in the obvious sense) but strangely the same as any of my sexual trust. Hard to explain but I know I’m no different than before. I’m still gay. I can’t say I crave pussy or that sex with women is my next step (god forbid ) but I expect I will hook up again with him again sometime.

So as far as gay performers having sex with trans men and still claiming to be gay, I now agree. However, gay performers craving and having sex with women, I still believe they can’t claim to be gay- more accurately they’re bisexual with perhaps a leaning towards men.

Well you just said that you liked vagina and hopefully you will get some more trans men,,,how does that make you different from these so called gay pornstars who say that they are gay?!

 

[006]

Well you just said that you liked vagina and hopefully you will get some more trans men,,,how does that make you different from these so called gay pornstars who say that they are gay?!

Well, first of all I’m a nobody so I’m not in danger of influencing anyone.

And I never said (or meant) I liked vagina and hoped to get with more trans men. I said the sex went well considering it was my first time (it’s a gift, what can I say ). In fact, although I found my friend very sweet I realize I’m not in any rush to have sex with him again. We’ve met several times since for just coffee and nothing else.

True, I do still consider myself gay but no longer a gold star gay. I experimented but I know who I am.

I will say that my goal in befriending a few trans men was to humanize them for myself. I found (because of the internet) I was learning to demonize trans men as just women who were trying to turn gay men straight. I no longer believe that. They’re just people trying to be themselves. Interesting, likable and sweet. Perhaps I was lucky with the trans friends I made but I think it’s safe to say they’re a good representation of most trans men.

It’s curious, the sex didn’t feel homosexual BUT I wouldn’t say it was heterosexual either. I mean the genitalia was definitely the opposite of mine, but he seemed very much like a guy. And not just a guy, a gay guy. I don’t know, like I said I’m just a nobody so I don’t know how much my experience matters to anyone else.

 

[Kvc13]

Well, first of all I’m a nobody so I’m not in danger of influencing anyone.

And I never said (or meant) I liked vagina and hoped to get with more trans men. I said the sex went well considering it was my first time (it’s a gift, what can I say ). In fact, although I found my friend very sweet I realize I’m not in any rush to have sex with him again. We’ve met several times since for just coffee and nothing else.

True, I do still consider myself gay but no longer a gold star gay. I experimented but I know who I am.

I will say that my goal in befriending a few trans men was to humanize them for myself. I found (because of the internet) I was learning to demonize trans men as just women who were trying to turn gay men straight. I no longer believe that. They’re just people trying to be themselves. Interesting, likable and sweet. Perhaps I was lucky with the trans friends I made but I think it’s safe to say they’re a good representation of most trans men.

It’s curious, the sex didn’t feel homosexual BUT I wouldn’t say it was heterosexual either. I mean the genitalia was definitely the opposite of mine, but he seemed very much like a guy. And not just a guy, a gay guy. I don’t know, like I said I’m just a nobody so I don’t know how much my experience matters to anyone else.

You just said that that trans guy seemed like a gay guy!!! So a female transitioning to a men is a gay guy?
I'm not saying that you are influencing smb but just pointing out that you saying to others that that might be bi but instead you are also so who looked to have vaginal sex and you liked it and you are not opposed to it and I guess you still call it gay sex!!!!
I dont know,I just think you might have just discovered your bi side(imagine,you don't need lube and it's clean,since you mentioned)
I guess maybe men like you or these pornstars are proving society that gay sex is unnatural and females can just chop their Bobby off and then have gay guys

 

[006]

You just said that that trans guy seemed like a gay guy!!! So a female transitioning to a men is a gay guy?
I'm not saying that you are influencing smb but just pointing out that you saying to others that that might be bi but instead you are also so who looked to have vaginal sex and you liked it and you are not opposed to it and I guess you still call it gay sex!!!!
I dont know,I just think you might have just discovered your bi side(imagine,you don't need lube and it's clean,since you mentioned)
I guess maybe men like you or these pornstars are proving society that gay sex is unnatural and females can just chop their Bobby off and then have gay guys

First of all, let’s calm down. I do understand your point of view. If you look over my past comments you’ll know that. In fact, I’ve had many of my comments removed because they didn’t adhere to the “trans man = man” creed of this site.

I never said the vaginal sex was gay sex. I said it was curious that “the sex didn’t feel homosexual BUT I wouldn’t say it was heterosexual either.” Totally different statement.

What I said about lack of need for lube or cleanliness concerns was just a factual observation.

All I’m trying to say is, after meeting a few trans men in real life, I have a more nuanced opinion. I highly recommend doing this.

Think of it similar to what Harvey Milk suggested years ago, that gays should come out because then straight people can know us and realize that we are real people and not to be feared.

As far as labeling me as bisexual because I have now experienced vagina only once since my birth 55 years ago-go ahead. I understand, but somewhat disagree. Because I know if I never experience vagina again, I’ll be more than fine. I can’t however say that about cock and ass.

I do readily admit I lost my gold star status. But that hardly means I want to prove to society that gay sex is unnatural. Please, I love it too much.

Look, I don’t regret hooking up with my trans friend and perhaps my aversion to pussy was mitigated by the fact that he “seemed” like a guy to me.

I know, believe me, I know he is biologically female (and he knows that too) but he has always considered himself a man and has struggled long and hard to be accepted as a man. Do I completely understand? No.

But because I know him in real life, I like and respect him too much to challenge him on it.

 

[Kvc13]

First of all, let’s calm down. I do understand your point of view. If you look over my past comments you’ll know that. In fact, I’ve had many of my comments removed because they didn’t adhere to the “trans man = man” creed of this site.

I never said the vaginal sex was gay sex. I said it was curious that “the sex didn’t feel homosexual BUT I wouldn’t say it was heterosexual either.” Totally different statement.

What I said about lack of need for lube or cleanliness concerns was just a factual observation.

All I’m trying to say is, after meeting a few trans men in real life, I have a more nuanced opinion. I highly recommend doing this.

Think of it similar to what Harvey Milk suggested years ago, that gays should come out because then straight people can know us and realize that we are real people and not to be feared.

As far as labeling me as bisexual because I have now experienced vagina only once since my birth 55 years ago-go ahead. I understand, but somewhat disagree. Because I know if I never experience vagina again, I’ll be more than fine. I can’t however say that about cock and ass.

I do readily admit I lost my gold star status. But that hardly means I want to prove to society that gay sex is unnatural. Please, I love it too much.

Look, I don’t regret hooking up with my trans friend and perhaps my aversion to pussy was mitigated by the fact that he “seemed” like a guy to me.

I know, believe me, I know he is biologically female (and he knows that too) but he has always considered himself a man and has struggled long and hard to be accepted as a man. Do I completely understand? No.

But because I know him in real life, I like and respect him too much to challenge him on it.

Hey,all good,,I wasn't angry or smth
Just cus I have seen some of your past comments and the things you've said in that time doesn't really correlate with what are you saying now!
Second you say that if you happen to not have pussy again you will be fine but leaves the space that if you have the possibility to be in bed again with a person that has a vagina you would totally go for it like you've stated in some of your comments,,so I don't know really how smb would take that??!!
I mean you were curious about it and tried it but like you have said you enjoyed it so not much of a gay thing to be sincere but each to his own,,if your boyfriend is ok with them then best of luck to you
But don't take my comment as an attack or smth,,sometimes many of us lived in fear for not liking vagina weather if it attached to a female or a Trans male cus its sexually not attractive to us

 

[006]

Hey,all good,,I wasn't angry or smth
Just cus I have seen some of your past comments and the things you've said in that time doesn't really correlate with what are you saying now!
Second you say that if you happen to not have pussy again you will be fine but leaves the space that if you have the possibility to be in bed again with a person that has a vagina you would totally go for it like you've stated in some of your comments,,so I don't know really how smb would take that??!!
I mean you were curious about it and tried it but like you have said you enjoyed it so not much of a gay thing to be sincere but each to his own,,if your boyfriend is ok with them then best of luck to you
But don't take my comment as an attack or smth,,sometimes many of us lived in fear for not liking vagina weather if it attached to a female or a Trans male cus its sexually not attractive to us

No offense taken. Like I said I totally understand where you’re coming from and I still see how it’s a bit of a threat.

I do however hope you’ll consider taking my advice and meeting some trans men just to humanize them for yourself. It will take away some outrage you may be feeling towards them in the abstract.

Also, for what it’s worth I did inform my husband of the experience and he was a bit shocked. He knew I had never been with a woman so I had no experience with vagina.

He on the other hand, dated a girl briefly in college before coming to terms with his homosexuality so he knew from experience that pussy doesn’t have the power to change a gay man’s orientation.

 

[Kvc13]

No offense taken. Like I said I totally understand where you’re coming from and I still see how it’s a bit of a threat.

I do however hope you’ll consider taking my advice and meeting some trans men just to humanize them for yourself. It will take away some outrage you may be feeling towards them in the abstract.

Also, for what it’s worth I did inform my husband of the experience and he was a bit shocked. He knew I had never been with a woman so I had no experience with vagina.

He on the other hand, dated a girl briefly in college before coming to terms with his homosexuality so he knew from experience that pussy doesn’t have the power to change a gay man’s orientation.

I dont see trans men as a threat to be sincere,,I'm 100% secure on my sexuality and I don't experience lust or whatsoever to have sex with them even if they look as a male,,nor I do think that all trams people are bad or cringy,some of them are good people no doubt
I just got intrigued by your answer ,you being open to be intimate with them again and liking what you had with them and enjoying what they have in between their legs
Such a good thing that you were open with your husband,that's maturity but if you have heard,,those who even had a gf or had briefly sex with girlsbefore coming out,they never went back and tried vagina after they got out of the closet

 

[XtunaStan]

I have since met with my trans friend and it did turn sexual. He did ask if I’d ever been with a woman and I answered honestly no. I think he thought he was in for a training session but I guess I surprised him. After going down on him, he said “this is your first time?” I nodded and he started miming applause. Lol. He guided me inside him and we fucked. I came and was able to give him an orgasm. It was hot. It was different (in the obvious sense) but strangely the same as any of my sexual trust. Hard to explain but I know I’m no different than before. I’m still gay. I can’t say I crave pussy or that sex with women is my next step (god forbid ) but I expect I will hook up again with him again sometime.

So as far as gay performers having sex with trans men and still claiming to be gay, I now agree. However, gay performers craving and having sex with women, I still believe they can’t claim to be gay- more accurately they’re bisexual with perhaps a leaning towards men.

not 100% gay anymore huh

 

[006]

not 100% gay anymore huh

Well, no longer a gold star gay at any rate.

 

[Chiballana]

Is a brunette who dyes their hair blonde a natural blonde who has "always been blonde" and was just mistakenly "assigned brunette at birth?"

If someone with brown eyes puts in green contacts, and the DMV lists their eye color as green on their driver's license, does that mean they were "assigned brown-eyed at birth," have always had green eyes, and are the same as someone who was born with green eyes?

dying your hair is not permanent, is it? I mean, they would have to actually change the eye because a contact is not permanent. Yes, they were "assigned brown-eyed at birth", we can change what we like. A trans person was born with a certain phenotype, that phenotype can be changed.

 

[deleted19151801]

dying your hair is not permanent, is it?

It can be. If one continues to keep dying their hair the same color, it can essentially be permanent. Similarly, transitioning involves a constant regimen of taking cross-sex exogenous hormones.

Just as one can stop dying their hair and allow their natural hair to return, transitioning can, in many ways, also be reversed.

But, of course, we don't want to talk about them. They're not allowed to speak.

 

[dreambridger]

I'm gay, I would rather have sex with a trans men over a trans woman or woman any day.

I'm not gynophobic, I get some gays are disgusted with vaginas, but I'm not personally, I'm fine with them. I suppose I'm androphilic in general so the male form and the male attitude is what's the most important to me. I love cock like any other gay guy, but for some reason a trans woman is something that grosses me out, even if she's got a huge beautiful cock. If she's female-presenting, that's very repellent to me sexually.

the idea of a trans man is kinda hot to me honestly. Because (i know i'm stating the obvious) it's what happens when a man wields a vagina. Sounds like a superpower to me.

 

[deleted19151801]

I'm gay, I would rather have sex with a trans men over a trans woman or woman any day.

You, as a so-called gay man, would rather have sex with a biological woman that looks like a man over a biological man that looks like a woman or a biological woman that looks like a woman? Alrighty.

I suppose I'm androphilic in general so the male form and the male attitude is what's the most important to me.

Yes.

90% Gay, 10% Straight

Yes.

 

[dreambridger]

@aheidla why start a thread asking this question if you all ready are so sure how you feel about it? Seems like baiting to give yourself the opportunity to express what you believe.

Play nice.

this request should be mutual.

qualifying whether or not a gay is "gold-star" is very tiresome to me.

 

[MisterB]

My sex life is just that; MINE. Not your business who I may choose to sleep with, unless you are involved.

Just as I don't give two shits about the sex lives of others. It's not my business.

If someone is attracted to another human being, whether they identify as male, female, whatever? That is that person's business. Period.

Now, let me weigh in about those who chose to transgender. Any person who is brave enough to make the decision to transition to the gender he/she/they are other than their physical bodies? Kudos to them.

It's not anyone's place or business to gatekeep anyone else who may then find themselves attracted to such individuals. It just simply is not. Mind your business!!!

Sheesh!

 

[006]

My sex life is just that; MINE. Not your business who I may choose to sleep with, unless you are involved.

Just as I don't give two shits about the sex lives of others. It's not my business.

If someone is attracted to another human being, whether they identify as male, female, whatever? That is that person's business. Period.

Now, let me weigh in about those who chose to transgender. Any person who is brave enough to make the decision to transition to the gender he/she/they are other than their physical bodies? Kudos to them.

It's not anyone's place or business to gatekeep anyone else who may then find themselves attracted to such individuals. It just simply is not. Mind your business!!!

Sheesh!

I don’t think anyone is telling you whom to sleep or not sleep with. The discussion seems to be about honest labeling. For instance is a “proud, 100% gay man” who craves pussy really gay(homosexual? Instead of changing the definition of established labels (e.g.: it’s still gay if a gay man loves having penis-in-vagina sex) perhaps more updated labels should be considered (e.g.: trans-attracted)