Is a relationship even worth it anymore? Love seems dead and the gay community seems a mess.

[lostinspace94]

I have just finished about 6 months of therapy, and once again, I'm left with no real answers. As someone good looking/fit/also smart/has my world together I often wonder why I'm chronically single as someone in my 30s now. I am in the US (NY) and notice things are worser here than back home (in Europe) so I'm actually considering moving back next year.

I've done a lot of research over the years, read a bunch of stuff online, know a lot of people who are in / have been in relationships, and generally my findings are:

1. The hottest guys tend to be looking for money/a clone of themselves i.e. become escorts, OF's, working low end side jobs etc. I appreciate the economy etc is becoming difficult, and not everyone has the same opportunities, but I've noticed basically anyone who even remotely gym's is now into all of this, so finding someone fit and in the dating pool is next to non-existent. I'm not against dating someone who does this btw, they tend to want another IG influencer, someone doing the same thing etc, or a sugar daddy though. If you happen to find a hot guy who is on apps, he just wants sex, and even if it progresses a little further there are so many red flags it's not worthwhile. This includes their inability to be intimate / reliance on drugs etc which is very unattractive to me.

2. The normal guys come in a few forms:
a) In a relationship (typically open if they have options) but generally are unhappy/complaining, but unwilling to separate, usually because of economic reasons and/or loneliness reasons. These are 'contractual' relationships e.g. we share rent, or habit based relationships (I don't love you, but I don't have the energy to find someone else) in general.
b) Single but have attachment issues / trauma / poor attitudes / should really be single imo and work on themselves.

There are of course still other overarching issues e.g. white supremacy, guys looking for someone above/clone of themselves (as proven with science, leading to short lived relationships because clones never make good partners), attachment/trauma issues etc which only compound this problem. I kept getting told 'the best are taken' and the 'dating pool has left overs' but I can't believe this to be true ... if the best are taken why is there such a high divorce/seperation rate? Why has couples counselling gone up? Why is depression at an all time high? I also read a paper which said Caucasian people actually are the most depressed vs any other race.

I have probably met a small handful of gay couples who genuinely seem happy, so I know it exists and I'm definitely not pessimistic/being negative, but typically both are much older, not got a lot of other options sexually (no judgement), live in a tiny town away from everyone etc.

Given all of this, I really wonder why I am even putting in effort in trying to find someone, when the odds of it just seem worse than a powerball and the actual satisfaction within a relationship seems very limited. I am struggling to see the point anymore of partnering up, if you are financially stable and have decent friends/connections, and can get laid.

My therapist / couples have listed 'reasons' for a relationship, and I generally don't think any of them hold true (at least for me). For example, a common reason is someone to see you through life. But the data shows that something like 50%+ of gay men above 45 are single. So even if you find someone, the chances of them 'seeing you through life' are minimal. A friend or even a dog probably lasts longer lol.

Another common reason is 'someone to support you when you are sick'. Can't you just get a better health insurance and healthcare? Since we will end up in a home, isn't it better to make $ and afford better healthcare? You have no idea if your partner will be alive even and what if you have something like a stroke where you are needing wheeling around, your partner of 70 yo won't be able to 'support you'.

Another common theme is loneliness/company but I really question this. Happiness comes from inside, you have to develop deeper connections with people in general, not just your partner (many guys I know marry their partner because thats their only friend which is sad). I actually think a friendship that lasts longer is a bigger 'achievement' because its more voluntary than a partner. This is also true for 'emotional needs'. I see a lot of projection, toxicity within relationships etc so I think people need to just chill vs 'needing emotional support'. This is the same for 'having company' when travelling etc... to me that just seems like someone with low self esteem who can't go to places themselves.

Another common theme is 'intimacy' and 'sex is better with the same person'. I strongly disagree with this too. I've had much more intimate hookups (and sometimes even the first time, not even a repeat) even than half the people I speak to in relationships (one of my friends only had sex with his partner once a year and doesn't even enjoy it!). Intimacy is not 'title' or 'time' dependant, it's attitude dependant.

So I'm left wondering what the point of having a relationship in today's society is?

Rambling on but just wanted to put this out there.

 

[Kinglmao]

I have just finished about 6 months of therapy, and once again, I'm left with no real answers. As someone good looking/fit/also smart/has my world together I often wonder why I'm chronically single as someone in my 30s now. I am in the US (NY) and notice things are worser here than back home (in Europe) so I'm actually considering moving back next year.

I've done a lot of research over the years, read a bunch of stuff online, know a lot of people who are in / have been in relationships, and generally my findings are:

1. The hottest guys tend to be looking for money/a clone of themselves i.e. become escorts, OF's, working low end side jobs etc. I appreciate the economy etc is becoming difficult, and not everyone has the same opportunities, but I've noticed basically anyone who even remotely gym's is now into all of this, so finding someone fit and in the dating pool is next to non-existent. I'm not against dating someone who does this btw, they tend to want another IG influencer, someone doing the same thing etc, or a sugar daddy though. If you happen to find a hot guy who is on apps, he just wants sex, and even if it progresses a little further there are so many red flags it's not worthwhile. This includes their inability to be intimate / reliance on drugs etc which is very unattractive to me.

2. The normal guys come in a few forms:
a) In a relationship (typically open if they have options) but generally are unhappy/complaining, but unwilling to separate, usually because of economic reasons and/or loneliness reasons. These are 'contractual' relationships e.g. we share rent, or habit based relationships (I don't love you, but I don't have the energy to find someone else) in general.
b) Single but have attachment issues / trauma / poor attitudes / should really be single imo and work on themselves.

There are of course still other overarching issues e.g. white supremacy, guys looking for someone above/clone of themselves (as proven with science, leading to short lived relationships because clones never make good partners), attachment/trauma issues etc which only compound this problem. I kept getting told 'the best are taken' and the 'dating pool has left overs' but I can't believe this to be true ... if the best are taken why is there such a high divorce/seperation rate? Why has couples counselling gone up? Why is depression at an all time high? I also read a paper which said Caucasian people actually are the most depressed vs any other race.

I have probably met a small handful of gay couples who genuinely seem happy, so I know it exists and I'm definitely not pessimistic/being negative, but typically both are much older, not got a lot of other options sexually (no judgement), live in a tiny town away from everyone etc.

Given all of this, I really wonder why I am even putting in effort in trying to find someone, when the odds of it just seem worse than a powerball and the actual satisfaction within a relationship seems very limited. I am struggling to see the point anymore of partnering up, if you are financially stable and have decent friends/connections, and can get laid.

My therapist / couples have listed 'reasons' for a relationship, and I generally don't think any of them hold true (at least for me). For example, a common reason is someone to see you through life. But the data shows that something like 50%+ of gay men above 45 are single. So even if you find someone, the chances of them 'seeing you through life' are minimal. A friend or even a dog probably lasts longer lol.

Another common reason is 'someone to support you when you are sick'. Can't you just get a better health insurance and healthcare? Since we will end up in a home, isn't it better to make $ and afford better healthcare? You have no idea if your partner will be alive even and what if you have something like a stroke where you are needing wheeling around, your partner of 70 yo won't be able to 'support you'.

Another common theme is loneliness/company but I really question this. Happiness comes from inside, you have to develop deeper connections with people in general, not just your partner (many guys I know marry their partner because thats their only friend which is sad). I actually think a friendship that lasts longer is a bigger 'achievement' because its more voluntary than a partner. This is also true for 'emotional needs'. I see a lot of projection, toxicity within relationships etc so I think people need to just chill vs 'needing emotional support'. This is the same for 'having company' when travelling etc... to me that just seems like someone with low self esteem who can't go to places themselves.

Another common theme is 'intimacy' and 'sex is better with the same person'. I strongly disagree with this too. I've had much more intimate hookups (and sometimes even the first time, not even a repeat) even than half the people I speak to in relationships (one of my friends only had sex with his partner once a year and doesn't even enjoy it!). Intimacy is not 'title' or 'time' dependant, it's attitude dependant.

So I'm left wondering what the point of having a relationship in today's society is?

Rambling on but just wanted to put this out there.

I think you’re absolutely on point . I’m not sure relationships in the gay community will ever be a thing again. There of course are those who have already found someone and have a long lasting relationship but at this point I don’t think this new era is gonna birth a lot of new long lasting relationships. It’s going on in every community but it seems to strike the lgbt the worst especially since we don’t have an era where we can recall where we had a large number of gay men who had partners and were married . We fought hard to be able to get married and love but it sucks not too many of us may get the experience of it all.

 

[lostinspace94]

I think you’re absolutely on point . I’m not sure relationships in the gay community will ever be a thing again. There of course are those who have already found someone and have a long lasting relationship but at this point I don’t think this new era is gonna birth a lot of new long lasting relationships. It’s going on in every community but it seems to strike the lgbt the worst especially since we don’t have an era where we can recall where we had a large number of gay men who had partners and were married . We fought hard to be able to get married and love but it sucks not too many of us may get the experience of it all.

Agreed and my thread wasn't to be negative. It was to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. I feel like a lot of people are posting 'I will die without love' or 'I will die without a relationship' (extreme but you get my point) and I really scratch my head wondering why, when this love/relationship just seems so toxic in general.

I agree, most of the long term relationships I know of were pre social media / apps. I rarely see anyone have a long term anything now. If they are, they are 'making it work'. Tbh even those 'long term relationships' are mostly open now from what I see.

To add to the above, I didn't even include other issues like cheating, falling out of love (which is VERY common now because people are so distracted), lying, leaving when one has a health issue, sexual incompatibility (so many men are not even fully gay, still confused, or claim bi from shame etc or are swapping preferences etc), and so many other complications.

Honestly, I'm just focused on making money, keeping healthy (physically and mentally) and enjoying the experiences I get. I am aware I'm in a privileged position and live a privileged life, and by no means this was a judgement to others, but my general sense of the way things are going is everything is a revolving door, so you just have to enjoy things when they are there.

 

[Kinglmao]

Agreed and my thread wasn't to be negative. It was to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. I feel like a lot of people are posting 'I will die without love' or 'I will die without a relationship' (extreme but you get my point) and I really scratch my head wondering why, when this love/relationship just seems so toxic in general.

I agree, most of the long term relationships I know of were pre social media / apps. I rarely see anyone have a long term anything now. If they are, they are 'making it work'. Tbh even those 'long term relationships' are mostly open now from what I see.

To add to the above, I didn't even include other issues like cheating, falling out of love (which is VERY common now because people are so distracted), lying, leaving when one has a health issue, sexual incompatibility (so many men are not even fully gay, still confused, or claim bi from shame etc or are swapping preferences etc), and so many other complications.

Honestly, I'm just focused on making money, keeping healthy (physically and mentally) and enjoying the experiences I get. I am aware I'm in a privileged position and live a privileged life, and by no means this was a judgement to others, but my general sense of the way things are going is everything is a revolving door, so you just have to enjoy things when they are there.

The health issues point is a major point and problem . The younger generations doesn’t seem to understand that the body is only a temporary thing, looks go , health declines, hair thins and comes out, body fat stays around longer , muscles and knees tighten . And there of course things you can do that can help to change those things or ease the symptoms but it’s a lot more complicated than people seem to realize . And that sometimes even crosses over into sexual compatibility , a lot of health issues can change the way or even stop the person from being able to perform and sense now days everyone seems to prioritize sex as on of the key things in relationships it causes them to fall apart. I have experienced hemorrhoids and anal fissures that have come from genetic problems that happen in my colon. Of course I’m on the journey of healing but it has definitely affected my sexual life as a gay man and I have even developed anxiety around anal sex. I do like to bottom but since I can’t some of guys who I peruse relationships with kinda get turned off even if they aren’t strictly top or strictly bottoms . As a gay man it’s hard for some of us , especially if we have great personality but don’t fit the standards. I also think people aren’t as sexually open as they seem , the need penetration to feel satisfied with sex and don’t try other things to please their partners . That can sometimes be a factor in why people cheat. Plus I feel like a lot of couples like their partners looks and surface qualities and personality but don’t ever dig deep to get to know a person truly.

 

[lostinspace94]

The health issues point is a major point and problem . The younger generations doesn’t seem to understand that the body is only a temporary thing, looks go , health declines, hair thins and comes out, body fat stays around longer , muscles and knees tighten . And there of course things you can do that can help to change those things or ease the symptoms but it’s a lot more complicated than people seem to realize . And that sometimes even crosses over into sexual compatibility , a lot of health issues can change the way or even stop the person from being able to perform and sense now days everyone seems to prioritize sex as on of the key things in relationships it causes them to fall apart. I have experienced hemorrhoids and anal fissures that have come from genetic problems that happen in my colon. Of course I’m on the journey of healing but it has definitely affected my sexual life as a gay man and I have even developed anxiety around anal sex. I do like to bottom but since I can’t some of guys who I peruse relationships with kinda get turned off even if they aren’t strictly top or strictly bottoms . As a gay man it’s hard for some of us , especially if we have great personality but don’t fit the standards. I also think people aren’t as sexually open as they seem , the need penetration to feel satisfied with sex and don’t try other things to please their partners . That can sometimes be a factor in why people cheat. Plus I feel like a lot of couples like their partners looks and surface qualities and personality but don’t ever dig deep to get to know a person truly.

Exactly, 100% agree. Especially that last line. That is spot on.

This also more fundamentally stems from a selfish attitude that is increasing in the West. This 'I want X so I should get X regardless' type of mindset. So when your partner has some issue or is going through something, rather than work through things with them, its like dump and exchange. Or partial dump (if you are linked in other ways where you can't split e.g. finances) but its still basically a checked out approach because its 'me first'. I am so tired of seeing that in people in relationships (and even singles who are looking for someone), there is just no concept of adjusting and compromising in a healthy way. When I try and reason with people here on this, they get 'angry' at me, defending their stance, and then you know there is something fishy going on internally there.

I also think modern medicine has also skewed things. Maintaining 'looks' has become somewhat easier (botox, surgery, steroids, hair transplants etc) than ever before so people remain in "peter pan" phase I think for too long. 40+ year old men are hotter than ever, but mentally, I find they are more 'behind' than ever too.

There was a really interesting book a Harvard professor wrote about happiness and modern dating. He spoke about how you should find someone complementary, not a clone, because love is basically in the gap of differences. But apps are designed to find 'your clone' because they are algorithms. When people truly understand this, I think everyone would be happier. But porn, social media, and otherwise just propels the narrative of 'clones' and it is really destroying lives.

 

[Kinglmao]

Exactly, 100% agree. Especially that last line. That is spot on.

This also more fundamentally stems from a selfish attitude that is increasing in the West. This 'I want X so I should get X regardless' type of mindset. So when your partner has some issue or is going through something, rather than work through things with them, its like dump and exchange. Or partial dump (if you are linked in other ways where you can't split e.g. finances) but its still basically a checked out approach because its 'me first'. I am so tired of seeing that in people in relationships (and even singles who are looking for someone), there is just no concept of adjusting and compromising in a healthy way. When I try and reason with people here on this, they get 'angry' at me, defending their stance, and then you know there is something fishy going on internally there.

I also think modern medicine has also skewed things. Maintaining 'looks' has become somewhat easier (botox, surgery, steroids, hair transplants etc) than ever before so people remain in "peter pan" phase I think for too long. 40+ year old men are hotter than ever, but mentally, I find they are more 'behind' than ever too.

There was a really interesting book a Harvard professor wrote about happiness and modern dating. He spoke about how you should find someone complementary, not a clone, because love is basically in the gap of differences. But apps are designed to find 'your clone' because they are algorithms. When people truly understand this, I think everyone would be happier. But porn, social media, and otherwise just propels the narrative of 'clones' and it is really destroying lives.

I think the clone idea expands itself beyond just people wanting themselves but people wanting a clone of someone they have already dated or see on social media, tv , or any kind of celebrity they get attached to . also since not many people value personalities or try new things , they cannot fathom or even dream of something that doesn’t fit into their “ vision” of what their life should be . People would rather sacrifice their mental health for a better physical appearance even if it comes with surgery or pills or even unsafe practices.

 

[lostinspace94]

I think the clone idea expands itself beyond just people wanting themselves but people wanting a clone of someone they have already dated or see on social media, tv , or any kind of celebrity they get attached to . also since not many people value personalities or try new things , they cannot fathom or even dream of something that doesn’t fit into their “ vision” of what their life should be . People would rather sacrifice their mental health for a better physical appearance even if it comes with surgery or pills or even unsafe practices.

Exactly. And then they wonder why they don't feel fulfilled / not growing etc.

 

[Kinglmao]

Exactly. And then they wonder why they don't feel fulfilled / not growing etc.

yeah it’s definitely hard for relationships. When our community mostly seems to be filled with shallow people who lack emotional depth or sometimes any depth.

 

[lesshake]

My therapist / couples have listed 'reasons' for a relationship, and I generally don't think any of them hold true (at least for me). For example, a common reason is someone to see you through life. But the data shows that something like 50%+ of gay men above 45 are single. So even if you find someone, the chances of them 'seeing you through life' are minimal. A friend or even a dog probably lasts longer lol.

Gosh, I wonder if something might have happened to the Gen X and older gays in the 80s and 90s!

 

[Topher the Gopher]

tldr: Your first mistake was settling in New York. Try a more rural area and you'll find more down-to-earth people instead of Tiktok types.