Is a relationship even worth it anymore? Love seems dead and the gay community seems a mess.

[Kinglmao]

Mmm…

…where do I start with this…?

Maybe get off of the “dating apps” and do something real, that requires you to be present, doing an activity (outside of the gym) that stimulates the mind, moves the body and allows your personality to show through…

…or maybe it’s your personality that sucks in the first place?

I’m being facetious!

Don’t take this as an attack on your personality, but I will say this to ANYONE looking to connect with another human being - DONT USE DATING APPS!!

I’m in my 50’s now, and I’ve had countless housemates stay with me looking for “love” through Grindr/Scruff/gay Romeo etc etc etc.

When they moaned about not being able to find the right guy for the 100th time to me I just said “switch off the apps and do something you enjoy, that gets you out amongst other guys that you can share real time with. The rest will happen naturally.”

And it worked.

Everytime.

There ARE kind, compassionate, open, honest and loving men out there, you just need to look in the right places.

this is like a Disney movie post , “ and as soon as Cinderella put on her heels she was able to find true love” . I appreciate the positivity though but I think the only solution now for me is just to jump off a bridge lol

 

[JiaFei_Dai]

Advantages are indeed advantages; there’s no contradiction in that. This advantage doesn’t mean that having these conditions guarantees a good life; it means you have a broader range of choices and a higher response rate. Once matched, it still depends on individual luck.

Appearance is a stepping stone, and good economic conditions are the foundation for a stable life. These two conditions are not as simple as they seem; appearance and economic conditions play a significant role in shaping a person's character and values.

The point I mentioned last time felt too vain; it’s not that everyone will hunt for someone of a higher status, but rather a form of selection. Seeking upward in a partner is natural, but there are also many who settle for less to get by.

There’s a Chinese idiom called “门当户对” (men dang hu dui), which refers to two people having similar social status and background. This similarity can ensure that they share common values and lifestyles in marriage. In a marriage where “门当户对” applies, the gap between the two is smaller, making it easier for them to understand and support each other.

If you feel that having advantages is not easy, losing them would be even harder. Those who meet both conditions can be called the favored ones, while those who have neither constitute the majority.

I don’t know, but try to pay more attention of people strengths.

 

[Kinglmao]

Idk As far as appearance goes I feel like gay men really like a select type of guys . I weight 174 and guys have called me fat . And people say I look 21 and I look ugly (I’m 26). Lol

 

[michael_3165]

this is like a Disney movie post , “ and as soon as Cinderella put on her heels she was able to find true love” . I appreciate the positivity though but I think the only solution now for me is just to jump off a bridge lol

That'd certainly make finding the right guy less likely!

 

[CockMySuck]

I have just finished about 6 months of therapy, and once again, I'm left with no real answers. As someone good looking/fit/also smart/has my world together I often wonder why I'm chronically single as someone in my 30s now. I am in the US (NY) and notice things are worser here than back home (in Europe) so I'm actually considering moving back next year.

I've done a lot of research over the years, read a bunch of stuff online, know a lot of people who are in / have been in relationships, and generally my findings are:

1. The hottest guys tend to be looking for money/a clone of themselves i.e. become escorts, OF's, working low end side jobs etc. I appreciate the economy etc is becoming difficult, and not everyone has the same opportunities, but I've noticed basically anyone who even remotely gym's is now into all of this, so finding someone fit and in the dating pool is next to non-existent. I'm not against dating someone who does this btw, they tend to want another IG influencer, someone doing the same thing etc, or a sugar daddy though. If you happen to find a hot guy who is on apps, he just wants sex, and even if it progresses a little further there are so many red flags it's not worthwhile. This includes their inability to be intimate / reliance on drugs etc which is very unattractive to me.

2. The normal guys come in a few forms:
a) In a relationship (typically open if they have options) but generally are unhappy/complaining, but unwilling to separate, usually because of economic reasons and/or loneliness reasons. These are 'contractual' relationships e.g. we share rent, or habit based relationships (I don't love you, but I don't have the energy to find someone else) in general.
b) Single but have attachment issues / trauma / poor attitudes / should really be single imo and work on themselves.

There are of course still other overarching issues e.g. white supremacy, guys looking for someone above/clone of themselves (as proven with science, leading to short lived relationships because clones never make good partners), attachment/trauma issues etc which only compound this problem. I kept getting told 'the best are taken' and the 'dating pool has left overs' but I can't believe this to be true ... if the best are taken why is there such a high divorce/seperation rate? Why has couples counselling gone up? Why is depression at an all time high? I also read a paper which said Caucasian people actually are the most depressed vs any other race.

I have probably met a small handful of gay couples who genuinely seem happy, so I know it exists and I'm definitely not pessimistic/being negative, but typically both are much older, not got a lot of other options sexually (no judgement), live in a tiny town away from everyone etc.

Given all of this, I really wonder why I am even putting in effort in trying to find someone, when the odds of it just seem worse than a powerball and the actual satisfaction within a relationship seems very limited. I am struggling to see the point anymore of partnering up, if you are financially stable and have decent friends/connections, and can get laid.

My therapist / couples have listed 'reasons' for a relationship, and I generally don't think any of them hold true (at least for me). For example, a common reason is someone to see you through life. But the data shows that something like 50%+ of gay men above 45 are single. So even if you find someone, the chances of them 'seeing you through life' are minimal. A friend or even a dog probably lasts longer lol.

Another common reason is 'someone to support you when you are sick'. Can't you just get a better health insurance and healthcare? Since we will end up in a home, isn't it better to make $ and afford better healthcare? You have no idea if your partner will be alive even and what if you have something like a stroke where you are needing wheeling around, your partner of 70 yo won't be able to 'support you'.

Another common theme is loneliness/company but I really question this. Happiness comes from inside, you have to develop deeper connections with people in general, not just your partner (many guys I know marry their partner because thats their only friend which is sad). I actually think a friendship that lasts longer is a bigger 'achievement' because its more voluntary than a partner. This is also true for 'emotional needs'. I see a lot of projection, toxicity within relationships etc so I think people need to just chill vs 'needing emotional support'. This is the same for 'having company' when travelling etc... to me that just seems like someone with low self esteem who can't go to places themselves.

Another common theme is 'intimacy' and 'sex is better with the same person'. I strongly disagree with this too. I've had much more intimate hookups (and sometimes even the first time, not even a repeat) even than half the people I speak to in relationships (one of my friends only had sex with his partner once a year and doesn't even enjoy it!). Intimacy is not 'title' or 'time' dependant, it's attitude dependant.

So I'm left wondering what the point of having a relationship in today's society is?

Rambling on but just wanted to put this out there.

You don't need to have a relationship. Plenty of people don't. Don't define your value by it, and instead just live the life you want to live. That's really the key: live your life. Being single is not a deficiency.

Love is still very alive and relationships are still what they are – realistic times with ups and downs (even if people don't seem "happy" on the surface, a relationship is so much deeper than fleeting happiness or projecting happiness to others that are not in it).

 

[borg1125]

I have just finished about 6 months of therapy, and once again, I'm left with no real answers. As someone good looking/fit/also smart/has my world together I often wonder why I'm chronically single as someone in my 30s now. I am in the US (NY) and notice things are worser here than back home (in Europe) so I'm actually considering moving back next year.

I've done a lot of research over the years, read a bunch of stuff online, know a lot of people who are in / have been in relationships, and generally my findings are:

1. The hottest guys tend to be looking for money/a clone of themselves i.e. become escorts, OF's, working low end side jobs etc. I appreciate the economy etc is becoming difficult, and not everyone has the same opportunities, but I've noticed basically anyone who even remotely gym's is now into all of this, so finding someone fit and in the dating pool is next to non-existent. I'm not against dating someone who does this btw, they tend to want another IG influencer, someone doing the same thing etc, or a sugar daddy though. If you happen to find a hot guy who is on apps, he just wants sex, and even if it progresses a little further there are so many red flags it's not worthwhile. This includes their inability to be intimate / reliance on drugs etc which is very unattractive to me.

2. The normal guys come in a few forms:
a) In a relationship (typically open if they have options) but generally are unhappy/complaining, but unwilling to separate, usually because of economic reasons and/or loneliness reasons. These are 'contractual' relationships e.g. we share rent, or habit based relationships (I don't love you, but I don't have the energy to find someone else) in general.
b) Single but have attachment issues / trauma / poor attitudes / should really be single imo and work on themselves.

There are of course still other overarching issues e.g. white supremacy, guys looking for someone above/clone of themselves (as proven with science, leading to short lived relationships because clones never make good partners), attachment/trauma issues etc which only compound this problem. I kept getting told 'the best are taken' and the 'dating pool has left overs' but I can't believe this to be true ... if the best are taken why is there such a high divorce/seperation rate? Why has couples counselling gone up? Why is depression at an all time high? I also read a paper which said Caucasian people actually are the most depressed vs any other race.

I have probably met a small handful of gay couples who genuinely seem happy, so I know it exists and I'm definitely not pessimistic/being negative, but typically both are much older, not got a lot of other options sexually (no judgement), live in a tiny town away from everyone etc.

Given all of this, I really wonder why I am even putting in effort in trying to find someone, when the odds of it just seem worse than a powerball and the actual satisfaction within a relationship seems very limited. I am struggling to see the point anymore of partnering up, if you are financially stable and have decent friends/connections, and can get laid.

My therapist / couples have listed 'reasons' for a relationship, and I generally don't think any of them hold true (at least for me). For example, a common reason is someone to see you through life. But the data shows that something like 50%+ of gay men above 45 are single. So even if you find someone, the chances of them 'seeing you through life' are minimal. A friend or even a dog probably lasts longer lol.

Another common reason is 'someone to support you when you are sick'. Can't you just get a better health insurance and healthcare? Since we will end up in a home, isn't it better to make $ and afford better healthcare? You have no idea if your partner will be alive even and what if you have something like a stroke where you are needing wheeling around, your partner of 70 yo won't be able to 'support you'.

Another common theme is loneliness/company but I really question this. Happiness comes from inside, you have to develop deeper connections with people in general, not just your partner (many guys I know marry their partner because thats their only friend which is sad). I actually think a friendship that lasts longer is a bigger 'achievement' because its more voluntary than a partner. This is also true for 'emotional needs'. I see a lot of projection, toxicity within relationships etc so I think people need to just chill vs 'needing emotional support'. This is the same for 'having company' when travelling etc... to me that just seems like someone with low self esteem who can't go to places themselves.

Another common theme is 'intimacy' and 'sex is better with the same person'. I strongly disagree with this too. I've had much more intimate hookups (and sometimes even the first time, not even a repeat) even than half the people I speak to in relationships (one of my friends only had sex with his partner once a year and doesn't even enjoy it!). Intimacy is not 'title' or 'time' dependant, it's attitude dependant.

So I'm left wondering what the point of having a relationship in today's society is?

Rambling on but just wanted to put this out there.

Get a dog and forget about homo sapiens. They're trash.

 

[Kinglmao]

Get a dog and forget about homo sapiens. They're trash.

my dog died . I miss him

 

[Jake1973]

Sorry I missed this.

I want to start by saying that I do indeed have a bleak view on relationships, not because I think relationships themselves are bad, but when I speak to people who are in them or have had them, it really makes me wonder. As I lack the personal experience, I rely on other people's testimonials, and over the years I've accumulated similar trends.

This is not to say *every* relationship is bad/doomed - I met several happy couples. What I noticed is they met years ago, or were in school etc together often, i.e. didn't meet through the current 'dating world' we face today. My thread was more about the world we are in now, sorry, I should have clarified this.

In terms of judgement and appearance, I would also say, generally, I think its become more extreme overall. For example, l bodybuilding used to be quite a niche sport. When I started in the gym only a few guys even were trying to add muscle. As I have gotten older, it seems like every other guy is on this path. Therefore the beauty standards have sky rocketed somewhat. Interestingly, I never actually based 'dating' on someones body, as I've always been more a "face" person. Therefore I've never been interested or attracted to "Instagram" types or even chase after them. I honestly thought I would come out, find a nice guy, be married and that would be it. Clearly I was wrong.

Indeed, all relationships are hard work, and I guess my post was trying to think for myself what kind of guy would I want to put the hard work into now (vs in my 20s). As time has gone by, and I've remained single, my "needs" have decreased because I'm basically taken care of myself, and it was more a self-analysis vs a criticism.

I think your last paragraph is spot on in terms of how I feel and better phrased than I think I articulated.

I agree with this. I have only had relationships work with people I met in real life. I think if I were single again I would not even attempt apps. To me they are a minefield of deceit.

Also, pre social Internet, people saw mostly real humans in person on the daily. Online including on this site you are constantly bombarding yourself with unrealistic (and in some cases not even real) extremes of the beauty standard. It's funny, when I was a kid this was a thing that happened to women, but long around 1992 the marketing industry figured out men could be just as susceptible to it, and--I may get shot for saying this--gay men more so than straight.

 

[lostinspace94]

Mmm…

…where do I start with this…?

Maybe get off of the “dating apps” and do something real, that requires you to be present, doing an activity (outside of the gym) that stimulates the mind, moves the body and allows your personality to show through…

…or maybe it’s your personality that sucks in the first place?

I’m being facetious!

Don’t take this as an attack on your personality, but I will say this to ANYONE looking to connect with another human being - DONT USE DATING APPS!!

I’m in my 50’s now, and I’ve had countless housemates stay with me looking for “love” through Grindr/Scruff/gay Romeo etc etc etc.

When they moaned about not being able to find the right guy for the 100th time to me I just said “switch off the apps and do something you enjoy, that gets you out amongst other guys that you can share real time with. The rest will happen naturally.”

And it worked.

Everytime.

There ARE kind, compassionate, open, honest and loving men out there, you just need to look in the right places.

Honestly, I only used Grindr 'properly' and that too with a mindset of hooking up. Tinder was more for dating but that was terrible.

I am social in the sense that I go to parties, gay sports clubs etc, and enjoy it actually. But I've never met anyone from those avenues (and most guys who at least hit on me seem to be on the apps too). Its not like the pool is dramatically different offline vs online.

What does vary is the vibe. In person I find it much easier to filter and target ones I think I vibe with, but then something is also still wrong e.g. they are taken, visiting etc. At least with an app you know upfront.

Not sure what places these 'nice' men are as I sure haven't found any so far lol.

 

[lostinspace94]

I agree with this. I have only had relationships work with people I met in real life. I think if I were single again I would not even attempt apps. To me they are a minefield of deceit.

Also, pre social Internet, people saw mostly real humans in person on the daily. Online including on this site you are constantly bombarding yourself with unrealistic (and in some cases not even real) extremes of the beauty standard. It's funny, when I was a kid this was a thing that happened to women, but long around 1992 the marketing industry figured out men could be just as susceptible to it, and--I may get shot for saying this--gay men more so than straight.

Would love to know where in person you meet these guys. I'm in NY too btw.

 

[lostinspace94]

You don't need to have a relationship. Plenty of people don't. Don't define your value by it, and instead just live the life you want to live. That's really the key: live your life. Being single is not a deficiency.

Love is still very alive and relationships are still what they are – realistic times with ups and downs (even if people don't seem "happy" on the surface, a relationship is so much deeper than fleeting happiness or projecting happiness to others that are not in it).

Its not about 'need' but more a desire to move beyond just hookups.