Is a relationship even worth it anymore? Love seems dead and the gay community seems a mess.

[lostinspace94]

Something I'd like to add is this: Often love is something that grows as you get to know someone rather than simply opening a door and finding it on your doorstep.

Yes, sexual attraction and chemistry has to be there from the start but I also think some people can be too quick to judge or have too inflexible about what they are looking for.

Nobody is perfect, remember you have faults they will have to accept too. If someone will love you knowing all your faults, then you are way ahead already.

Generally speaking, the more equal you and your partner are in regards to looks, libido, morals, values, education and wealth; the more likely your relationship will last.

So it's important to be realistic about what you are, so you can be realistic about what you want.

Totally agree that love grows, I think my point of the thread though is it also requires time to develop. If someone is bouncing from one person to the next (as you also suggest in your second paragraph) nothing can really develop and then you never really learn anything.

I agree 100% regarding finding an 'equal'. The hard part is finding this.

For example, I'm handsome looking, not a sex addict but decent libido, strong morals/values due to my upbringing, Masters level education, and well off. I literally can find a dude who ticks maybe 2 of those at best. As soon as they 'tick the 3rd' something is wrong e.g. someone else could be handsome + decent libido but not educated at all and living pay cheque to pay cheque. Or someone who is educated and well off but not attractive in the slightest (and trust me, I don't have any "IG" level dude desire). So my search just never seems to end even when I'm very willing to compromise.

 

[lostinspace94]

I'm on another continent and it's the same. I feel 90% of the men are in a relationship they only chose to claim they have someone at home, but it's actually all open and everyone fucks around like before. It's frustrating and I stopped dating. Don't know if I start again, but I feel better with myself anyway.

This happens A LOT in NY. +1. Hence I really question the point of even trying if this is what it is. I'm fine sleeping comfortably in my own bed and having hookups/FWB's when I want sex.

 

[Brodie888]

Totally agree that love grows, I think my point of the thread though is it also requires time to develop. If someone is bouncing from one person to the next (as you also suggest in your second paragraph) nothing can really develop and then you never really learn anything.

I agree 100% regarding finding an 'equal'. The hard part is finding this.

For example, I'm handsome looking, not a sex addict but decent libido, strong morals/values due to my upbringing, Masters level education, and well off. I literally can find a dude who ticks maybe 2 of those at best. As soon as they 'tick the 3rd' something is wrong e.g. someone else could be handsome + decent libido but not educated at all and living pay cheque to pay cheque. Or someone who is educated and well off but not attractive in the slightest (and trust me, I don't have any "IG" level dude desire). So my search just never seems to end even when I'm very willing to compromise.

I can understand where you are coming from. And unfortunately, many men make compromises they live to regret down the track.

For example, I have a friend who chose 2 partners consecutively who earned significantly less than he did. After roughly 4 years for each, the other partners cleaned him out financially. So 8 years later he went from owning his house and very comfortable to now having a huge mortgage and barely a cent to his name living hand to mouth and will never get back to where he was.

 

[Almost40]

I

I guess we should give up dating gay men then right? What's the point?

f u ask me, no don't give up dating. But don't date the avarage typical community guys, that's my point. U can find anyone but make sure they are outside this thing called community.

 

[lostinspace94]

I can understand where you are coming from. And unfortunately, many men make compromises they live to regret down the track.

For example, I have a friend who chose 2 partners consecutively who earned significantly less than he did. After roughly 4 years for each, the other partners cleaned him out financially. So 8 years later he went from owning his house and very comfortable to now having a huge mortgage and barely a cent to his name living hand to mouth and will never get back to where he was.

Yup I know many like this, who also put up with cheating and what not, just because they don't wanna stop leeching. It is sad.

 

[lostinspace94]

I

f u ask me, no don't give up dating. But don't date the avarage typical community guys, that's my point. U can find anyone but make sure they are outside this thing called community.

Given what is happening, I wonder if there are even good guys left in the US. I'm tempted to move back to Europe or Brazil or something.

 

[borg1125]

Each man, and relationship, had its strengths and weaknesses, but none of them were, unlike what jjsurp99 says about gay men, "trash."

"Trash" is probably hyperbole nevertheless the person is in the "unacceptable" category and not to be considered and indeed "trash". A cruel word but dating is a cruel endeavor.

 

[Jjsurp99]

Given what is happening, I wonder if there are even good guys left in the US. I'm tempted to move back to Europe or Brazil or something.

There's plenty of good men here in US. Stop giving into fear

 

[elklindoxxx]

Is it worth it anymore....Absolutely.

Having sex with my gorgeous partner is way way way better than having to masturbate. Not to mention that we have great relationship. It just takes time to find the right person for you.

 

[lostinspace94]

Is it worth it anymore....Absolutely.

Having sex with my gorgeous partner is way way way better than having to masturbate. Not to mention that we have great relationship. It just takes time to find the right person for you.

Any tips on finding a match in today's world?

 

[Almagest88]

I have just finished about 6 months of therapy, and once again, I'm left with no real answers. As someone good looking/fit/also smart/has my world together I often wonder why I'm chronically single as someone in my 30s now. I am in the US (NY) and notice things are worser here than back home (in Europe) so I'm actually considering moving back next year.

I've done a lot of research over the years, read a bunch of stuff online, know a lot of people who are in / have been in relationships, and generally my findings are:

1. The hottest guys tend to be looking for money/a clone of themselves i.e. become escorts, OF's, working low end side jobs etc. I appreciate the economy etc is becoming difficult, and not everyone has the same opportunities, but I've noticed basically anyone who even remotely gym's is now into all of this, so finding someone fit and in the dating pool is next to non-existent. I'm not against dating someone who does this btw, they tend to want another IG influencer, someone doing the same thing etc, or a sugar daddy though. If you happen to find a hot guy who is on apps, he just wants sex, and even if it progresses a little further there are so many red flags it's not worthwhile. This includes their inability to be intimate / reliance on drugs etc which is very unattractive to me.

2. The normal guys come in a few forms:
a) In a relationship (typically open if they have options) but generally are unhappy/complaining, but unwilling to separate, usually because of economic reasons and/or loneliness reasons. These are 'contractual' relationships e.g. we share rent, or habit based relationships (I don't love you, but I don't have the energy to find someone else) in general.
b) Single but have attachment issues / trauma / poor attitudes / should really be single imo and work on themselves.

There are of course still other overarching issues e.g. white supremacy, guys looking for someone above/clone of themselves (as proven with science, leading to short lived relationships because clones never make good partners), attachment/trauma issues etc which only compound this problem. I kept getting told 'the best are taken' and the 'dating pool has left overs' but I can't believe this to be true ... if the best are taken why is there such a high divorce/seperation rate? Why has couples counselling gone up? Why is depression at an all time high? I also read a paper which said Caucasian people actually are the most depressed vs any other race.

I have probably met a small handful of gay couples who genuinely seem happy, so I know it exists and I'm definitely not pessimistic/being negative, but typically both are much older, not got a lot of other options sexually (no judgement), live in a tiny town away from everyone etc.

Given all of this, I really wonder why I am even putting in effort in trying to find someone, when the odds of it just seem worse than a powerball and the actual satisfaction within a relationship seems very limited. I am struggling to see the point anymore of partnering up, if you are financially stable and have decent friends/connections, and can get laid.

My therapist / couples have listed 'reasons' for a relationship, and I generally don't think any of them hold true (at least for me). For example, a common reason is someone to see you through life. But the data shows that something like 50%+ of gay men above 45 are single. So even if you find someone, the chances of them 'seeing you through life' are minimal. A friend or even a dog probably lasts longer lol.

Another common reason is 'someone to support you when you are sick'. Can't you just get a better health insurance and healthcare? Since we will end up in a home, isn't it better to make $ and afford better healthcare? You have no idea if your partner will be alive even and what if you have something like a stroke where you are needing wheeling around, your partner of 70 yo won't be able to 'support you'.

Another common theme is loneliness/company but I really question this. Happiness comes from inside, you have to develop deeper connections with people in general, not just your partner (many guys I know marry their partner because thats their only friend which is sad). I actually think a friendship that lasts longer is a bigger 'achievement' because its more voluntary than a partner. This is also true for 'emotional needs'. I see a lot of projection, toxicity within relationships etc so I think people need to just chill vs 'needing emotional support'. This is the same for 'having company' when travelling etc... to me that just seems like someone with low self esteem who can't go to places themselves.

Another common theme is 'intimacy' and 'sex is better with the same person'. I strongly disagree with this too. I've had much more intimate hookups (and sometimes even the first time, not even a repeat) even than half the people I speak to in relationships (one of my friends only had sex with his partner once a year and doesn't even enjoy it!). Intimacy is not 'title' or 'time' dependant, it's attitude dependant.

So I'm left wondering what the point of having a relationship in today's society is?

Rambling on but just wanted to put this out there.

I have had at various times , and to an extent , still do have, all your same frustrations. We can feel like there is no room for us in the status quo of how the community is or today's mores , etc. All I can say to you is unapologetically be yourself and make room for yourself in the slow motion train wreck of a shit show that has been the proud history of the gay community. Even before apps, it was dismal, so just draw your line in the sand , put your hand out and say "talk to the left hand cuz you ain't right" and snap your fingers in a Z formation like the sassiest trade and just be yourself and demand what you want for yourself. I can't promise it will come soon, but, it's your choice, and you might just inspire someone else, or, yourself. Good luck!

 

[nixco]

Totally agree that love grows, I think my point of the thread though is it also requires time to develop. If someone is bouncing from one person to the next (as you also suggest in your second paragraph) nothing can really develop and then you never really learn anything.

I agree 100% regarding finding an 'equal'. The hard part is finding this.

For example, I'm handsome looking, not a sex addict but decent libido, strong morals/values due to my upbringing, Masters level education, and well off. I literally can find a dude who ticks maybe 2 of those at best. As soon as they 'tick the 3rd' something is wrong e.g. someone else could be handsome + decent libido but not educated at all and living pay cheque to pay cheque. Or someone who is educated and well off but not attractive in the slightest (and trust me, I don't have any "IG" level dude desire). So my search just never seems to end even when I'm very willing to compromise.

Given what is happening, I wonder if there are even good guys left in the US. I'm tempted to move back to Europe or Brazil or something.

Can I be honest? Well, I'm going to be anyway ... From your posts in this thread, it sounds like you're quite judgmental of other guys and find it very easy to see their flaws - but aren't so quick to see your own deficiencies. You appear to see yourself as a 'catch' who can't find anyone at your level. I see nothing here about where you fall short or may be going wrong; it's all about other people's flaws and shortcomings. I believe this is common in the gay world I would't be surprised if it plays a big part in why you can't find an 'equal'.

 

[nixco]

P.S. I'm not trying to be mean or to shoot you down but I genuinely feel it might help to try and expand your notions of what you consider an 'equal' (and no, that doesn't mean 'settling') and also looking closer at where you may be going wrong rather than focusing so much on others' deficiencies.

There is no such thing as the perfect partner. Love between two people blossoms because of some things and in spite of others - on both sides.

 

[lostinspace94]

Can I be honest? Well, I'm going to be anyway ... From your posts in this thread, it sounds like you're quite judgmental of other guys and find it very easy to see their flaws - but aren't so quick to see your own deficiencies. You appear to see yourself as a 'catch' who can't find anyone at your level. I see nothing here about where you fall short or may be going wrong; it's all about other people's flaws and shortcomings. I believe this is common in the gay world I would't be surprised if it plays a big part in why you can't find an 'equal'.

Just to clarify, a 'match' to me doesn't mean a 'paper equal'. It means a mutual interest and effort on both sides, that is consistent, something lacking in general I find (outside of friendships).

I am tall, but I don't expect the same, just own who you are / what you have got. I have a Masters, I don't expect the same, but have some level of common sense. I am on my path to early retirement, I don't expect the same, but don't be someone who is gonna blow all that money out the window in year 1.

Of course I have flaws. For example, I heavily index on my logical mind, which has gotten me far in life but overrides the human aspect of me at times. I would prefer someone who engages more on the softer/emotional side to keep me balanced, and I can also keep them balanced, as always being soft/emotional is not a thing. But a vast majority of dudes I encounter don't even know what they are feeling or can't even control their own emotions, let alone understanding mine. So this isn't about 'finding someone my level' its about finding someone complementary.

Another flaw is I'm in my head a lot. So I do need someone to pull me out sometimes and push me into new situations (like parties) and then I really enjoy and have a great time. I have tried this myself but I find it hard. But I've only also found friends do this for me, whenever I've asked 'dates' if they wanna go to a party or something together, there is avoidance. And the same people want 'someone fun and interesting' but they don't wanna actually *be* fun and interesting.

The values comment is as follows. Say someone is living pay check to pay check, and we are in a relationship (which I have nothing against). Say they loose their job. Their default shouldn't be sponging off me indefinitely, or doing OF because 'they have no other skills'. Maybe life was tough for them, but some botheration to gain some skills to get an income and progress in life is more attractive to me, but this is also lacking in a lot of guys i.e. effort. Its easier to 'leech'. This doesn't mean I won't be a financial support when they need it, but there is a difference being a 'support' vs someone being 'luggage' and that line people don't seem to understand at all.

I agree with you that there is no such thing as a perfect partner. In most cases, most guys just want sex from me and nothing else, despite my efforts in trying to progress things so these comments don't really matter as there is not much I can do about that. For the ones where it does progress, something will happen for us to call it a day (most of the time its not any sides fault, external things matter too). Given I have spent quite a while trying and falling flat, and during this time observing a lot of relationships around me and the evolving dating market, I don't really have a good perception overall for a lot of relationships anymore.

 

[zabakingboy]

The healthcare reason is going out the door soon, since the election. So good luck with that.

Yes, relationship is harder and harder to find. Quality person is harder and harder to find, and this is for everyone, not just gays.

 

[nixco]

Just to clarify, a 'match' to me doesn't mean a 'paper equal'. It means a mutual interest and effort on both sides, that is consistent, something lacking in general I find (outside of friendships).

I am tall, but I don't expect the same, just own who you are / what you have got. I have a Masters, I don't expect the same, but have some level of common sense. I am on my path to early retirement, I don't expect the same, but don't be someone who is gonna blow all that money out the window in year 1.

Of course I have flaws. For example, I heavily index on my logical mind, which has gotten me far in life but overrides the human aspect of me at times. I would prefer someone who engages more on the softer/emotional side to keep me balanced, and I can also keep them balanced, as always being soft/emotional is not a thing. But a vast majority of dudes I encounter don't even know what they are feeling or can't even control their own emotions, let alone understanding mine. So this isn't about 'finding someone my level' its about finding someone complementary.

Another flaw is I'm in my head a lot. So I do need someone to pull me out sometimes and push me into new situations (like parties) and then I really enjoy and have a great time. I have tried this myself but I find it hard. But I've only also found friends do this for me, whenever I've asked 'dates' if they wanna go to a party or something together, there is avoidance. And the same people want 'someone fun and interesting' but they don't wanna actually *be* fun and interesting.

The values comment is as follows. Say someone is living pay check to pay check, and we are in a relationship (which I have nothing against). Say they loose their job. Their default shouldn't be sponging off me indefinitely, or doing OF because 'they have no other skills'. Maybe life was tough for them, but some botheration to gain some skills to get an income and progress in life is more attractive to me, but this is also lacking in a lot of guys i.e. effort. Its easier to 'leech'. This doesn't mean I won't be a financial support when they need it, but there is a difference being a 'support' vs someone being 'luggage' and that line people don't seem to understand at all.

I agree with you that there is no such thing as a perfect partner. In most cases, most guys just want sex from me and nothing else, despite my efforts in trying to progress things so these comments don't really matter as there is not much I can do about that. For the ones where it does progress, something will happen for us to call it a day (most of the time its not any sides fault, external things matter too). Given I have spent quite a while trying and falling flat, and during this time observing a lot of relationships around me and the evolving dating market, I don't really have a good perception overall for a lot of relationships anymore.

I agree with most of what you've written here and appreciate you explaining more about yourself and your circumstances.

I don't have any answers but I do wonder if you're taking the gay dating world too seriously and earnestly, and if it might be a good idea to ease up on that, if you can. I know entering into a relationship is a serious business, with ramifications for many areas of your life, but you can't force these things. The cliché - that you meet the right person when you least expect it - is so often true. I'm rolling my eyes at myself for writing that but the cliché exists for a reason and in my experience, it's true.

I also wonder if some of the previous posters' observations about NYC are correct. In big Western cities like NYC, I feel love between two gay men can be hard to find. It seems recreational sex is much more common, and people are always looking for the next hit. People can get addicted to the thrill of the chase and the sensation of someone new time and time again. It's not an ideal environment for relationships to develop. You might find things more to your liking in a smaller US city or back home in Europe, where values may be different. Although the maxim that 'people's issues tend to follow them' also has truth to it.

Anyhow, I wish you all the very best. Keep us updated with how you're doing. Good luck!

 

[lostinspace94]

I agree with most of what you've written here and appreciate you explaining more about yourself and your circumstances.

I don't have any answers but I do wonder if you're taking the gay dating world too seriously and earnestly, and if it might be a good idea to ease up on that, if you can. I know entering into a relationship is a serious business, with ramifications for many areas of your life, but you can't force these things. The cliché - that you meet the right person when you least expect it - is so often true. I'm rolling my eyes at myself for writing that but the cliché exists for a reason and in my experience, it's true.

I also wonder if some of the previous posters' observations about NYC are correct. In big Western cities like NYC, I feel love between two gay men can be hard to find. It seems recreational sex is much more common, and people are always looking for the next hit. People can get addicted to the thrill of the chase and the sensation of someone new time and time again. It's not an ideal environment for relationships to develop. You might find things more to your liking in a smaller US city or back home in Europe, where values may be different. Although the maxim that 'people's issues tend to follow them' also has truth to it.

Anyhow, I wish you all the very best. Keep us updated with how you're doing. Good luck!

Yeah I'm just a bit unsure where to go tbh. I only came here for the money and to enjoy life, not expecting much more and I agree its how the city life is (although a lot of people I know found someone still). I've also only ever lived in cities so it would be an adjustment and I've not "slowed down" yet to mentally make the move. I'm just trying to make the most of my life and experience really and not waste my time on Earth.

Hence I'm open to ideas. I'm not super fussed tbh about a relationship, just would be nice to have a bit more than sex only also.

 

[nixco]

Yeah I'm just a bit unsure where to go tbh. I only came here for the money and to enjoy life, not expecting much more and I agree its how the city life is (although a lot of people I know found someone still). I've also only ever lived in cities so it would be an adjustment and I've not "slowed down" yet to mentally make the move. I'm just trying to make the most of my life and experience really and not waste my time on Earth.

Hence I'm open to ideas. I'm not super fussed tbh about a relationship, just would be nice to have a bit more than sex only also.

Yeah, big cities everywhere are like that. Maybe NYC more so but IDK. A smaller city, which still has many of the benefits of city life, might be worth a try (but then, it might not have the same career and other opportunities). Anyhow, best of luck. Making the most of your time on Earth is always a good policy.