Why So Many Men Are Triggered By The Term Toxic Masculinity?

[JayPR]

I've noticed that men, especially straight men, don't belive toxic masculinity is a thing and get very defensive when someone uses the term and call it a problem in our society. To clarify, masculinity and being masculine are fine, the issue we are discussing is toxic masculinity which is another thing.

Why do you think of this term- and the behaviors associated with them (excessive aggressiveness, repression of emotions and feelings, prejudice towards anything sensible or not "manly enough", belief that masculinity is superior to feminity)- triggers so many men to the point that they think is an attack on men?

 

[englad]

I think it's a front basically.

A way of projecting a certain image of strength to paper over any cracks lying beneath. I think some men associate those negative behaviours you've mentioned as being something positive in a sort of "boys just being boys" mentality. Men who would get triggered by the term toxic masculinity have been conditioned into thinking those traits are either not that bad or positive and so they conclude that masculinity itself is being attacked as opposed to specific toxic conditioned traits. I think that also comes from the fact that many people are still conditioned into traits being perceived as masculine or feminine, the colours pink and blue are a good example of how nebulous these traits often are (as pink used to be considered masculine and blue feminine pre-WWII). This starts very young, and often continues into adulthood.

This is a shame as the traits you've listed are deeply damaging to a lot of men, higher suicide rates, less likely to seek help if they need it, fights etc. It's possible that biology plays a role there (as there is a link bet higher levels of testosterone and impulsive behaviour), but the vast majority of it is conditioned and learned rather than innate.

But culture generally does play a huge role as well, I think if you were to compare two women with one from Canada and another from Southern Italy, you'd likely also get very different levels of emotional expression.

The trend I've seen in the UK and Germany is toxic masculinity's on the wane, especially in younger generations.

 

[dongalong]

I've noticed that men, especially straight men, don't belive toxic masculinity is a thing and get very defensive when someone uses the term and call it a problem in our society. To clarify, masculinity and being masculine are fine, the issue we are discussing is toxic masculinity which is another thing.

Why do you think of this term- and the behaviors associated with them (excessive aggressiveness, repression of emotions and feelings, prejudice towards anything sensible or not "manly enough", belief that masculinity is superior to feminity)- triggers so many men to the point that they think is an attack on men?

If a man gets triggered he's focusing on the fact that he is being smeared for behaving in the same natural way that men have always behaved. "Toxic masculinity" is clearly projection from toxic females, it's not a real thing that men take seriously.

Where did it come from? Gender studies classes, 3rd & 4th wave feminists? They believe smears are an effective weapon for changing society into one they find acceptable, most men really don't care when they hear it though, we are equipped with the ability to switch off our hearing when whiny women are whining.

Most women don't believe in it either, judging by the popularity of 50 Shades of Grey, they find so called toxic masculinity a huge turn on!

 

[deleted3200]

If having to defend yourself after accidentally bumping into a "kyle" at the state fair is the way "men have always behaved" then yeah that's pretty toxic and should be addressed in a constructive way.

 

[dongalong]

If having to defend yourself after accidentally bumping into a "kyle" at the state fair is the way "men have always behaved" then yeah that's pretty toxic and should be addressed in a constructive way.

The thing is, toxic people do toxic things whatever the gender.

 

[twoton]

It irks me a lot when people use the term. Why does it irk me?
There have always been knuckleheads. But back in the day, people were "called out" for being knuckleheads.

Nowadays, the knee jerk reaction of people with hair trigger emotional responses to those with whomst they disagree is to slam a generalized label on them, regardless of whether it applies.

I'm not "toxically masculine." I have never been, and because I refuse, and have always refused, to conform to the Bro Code, I've never had a cluster of bros to hang out with. However, I refuse to conform to the nitpicking backbiting emotionally wrecked brand of socio-political correctness that's pervaded every facet of American life.

I'm not offended by Archie Bunker, because I understand satire and humor, for example.

And so it pisses me off when someone stereotypes me if I happen to disagree with people like AOC, or whomstever is the It Girl (or Boi) of the moment.

 

[jpk338]

I was talking with a friend and he told me that the first guy he was with called him a "puta" while he was fucking him,he got mad and left. I told him that technically he was that man's bitch the minute he stuck his dick in your ass.
He got all offended about that and now won't talk to me.
Is this one of the examples that you are talking about ?

 

[Infernal]

I was talking with a friend and he told me that the first guy he was with called him a "puta" while he was fucking him,he got mad and left. I told him that technically he was that man's bitch the minute he stuck his dick in your ass.
He got all offended about that and now won't talk to me.
Is this one of the examples that you are talking about ?

he sounds like a delicate flower to me.

 

[twoton]

I was talking with a friend and he told me that the first guy he was with called him a "puta" while he was fucking him,he got mad and left. I told him that technically he was that man's bitch the minute he stuck his dick in your ass.
He got all offended about that and now won't talk to me.
Is this one of the examples that you are talking about ?

It sounds to me like he was legit offended, and I'd be pissed, too. And I don't think that's toxic masculinity. That's just being a jerk.

 

[ronin001]

The first; and only time I have heard the term used was in LPSG

 

[halcyondays]

To clarify, masculinity and being masculine are fine, the issue we are discussing is toxic masculinity which is another thing.

lol... the problem is that for many who sling the term there's no difference between the two

 

[Jjz1109]

It irks me a lot when people use the term. Why does it irk me?
There have always been knuckleheads. But back in the day, people were "called out" for being knuckleheads.

Nowadays, the knee jerk reaction of people with hair trigger emotional responses to those with whomst they disagree is to slam a generalized label on them, regardless of whether it applies.

I'm not "toxically masculine." I have never been, and because I refuse, and have always refused, to conform to the Bro Code, I've never had a cluster of bros to hang out with. However, I refuse to conform to the nitpicking backbiting emotionally wrecked brand of socio-political correctness that's pervaded every facet of American life.

I'm not offended by Archie Bunker, because I understand satire and humor, for example.

And so it pisses me off when someone stereotypes me if I happen to disagree with people like AOC, or whomstever is the It Girl (or Boi) of the moment.

Spot on. That said, I can only imagine the backlash were this posted in the politics forum.

 

[justcuriousdm]

I was talking with a friend and he told me that the first guy he was with called him a "puta" while he was fucking him,he got mad and left. I told him that technically he was that man's bitch the minute he stuck his dick in your ass.
He got all offended about that and now won't talk to me.
Is this one of the examples that you are talking about ?

Technically speaking, thinking that he was “his bitch” bc he got fucked is a ‘masculine’ and in this case ‘toxic’ way of looking at the situation. It would mean whoever fucks is in control and in power over everything and everyone, and that objectifies.

 

[justcuriousdm]

There’s actually a Podcast called Two Bi Guys which addresses this question amongst others in detail, and their social impacts. If you’re truly curious about why “toxic masculinity” is a a topic, this is a good resource to start. This episode I’m linking to is about why straight men have sex with men. ‎Two Bi Guys: Dr. Jane Ward on Sex Between Straight Men on Apple Podcasts

 

[1T1U1F1F1Y]

I have issue with the term because it's implies an aspect of masculinity itself is 'bad' when it isn't. Masculinity and femininity are like life and death. They are neither 'good' or 'bad', 'toxic' or 'clean' - they simple are what they are. What I think people refer to as 'toxic masculinity' is just insecurity masquerading as exaggerated 'manhood' and the same things appear in both genders, across age groups and exhibit's itself in different ways but the root cause is the same thing. By labelling the masculinity itself as bothersome takes away from the responsibility held solely by the individual, their mindset and actions.

There is no such thing as toxic masculinity. Just men hiding behind a certain mask to hide what they are too afraid to proudly show.

 

[halcyondays]

Outside of human anatomy and physiology there's nothing masculine or feminine that's not a stereotype.

Machismo and strength are examples of male stereotypes. Empathy and nurturing are examples of female stereotypes.

These were foisted upon my generation at a very young age by the old English nursery rhyme where girls are sugar and spice and everything nice while boys are snips, snails and puppy dog tails.

Human personality traits are neither male or female. They're human. Any personality trait a male has a female can have and vice versa.

 

[artboyd]

Being from a very macho man culture, where taboos and else still stand strong, the Toxic Masculinity described in the opening thread is long gone from my side of things. I have noticed that it is strong state side. It is expected for men to behave this way. It is apparently encouraged with Football and such and woman use the boys will be boys term to justify it. Where I am from, Culture see these behaviors as bizarre and have a hard time understanding. Mother's usually use a "chancleta" (slippers) to mold the kids into behaving nicely socially and to work things out without breaking your first with a wall... well, our walls are made out of concrete... so maybe a door. I hope I understood the tropic correctly but again, I notice this behavior to be more of a USA type of thing. Am I correct?

 

[JayPR]

Being from a very macho man culture, where taboos and else still stand strong, the Toxic Masculinity described in the opening thread is long gone from my side of things. I have noticed that it is strong state side. It is expected for men to behave this way. It is apparently encouraged with Football and such and woman use the boys will be boys term to justify it. Where I am from, Culture see these behaviors as bizarre and have a hard time understanding. Mother's usually use a "chancleta" (slippers) to mold the kids into behaving nicely socially and to work things out without breaking your first with a wall... well, our walls are made out of concrete... so maybe a door. I hope I understood the tropic correctly but again, I notice this behavior to be more of a USA type of thing. Am I correct?

I understand your point, but I grew up in Puerto Rico in the late 80s early 90s and the roots of this behavior were there. I remember a neighbor whose father called him "girl" or "fag" whenever he cried. "Boy's don't cry", he used to say "Crying is for girls". And several uncles and grown-up used to believe the same. Same when, because you were a guy, you were expected to have sex early on, and with several women.

I was not an athletic guy, I didn't know about baseball, wasn't a fan of cars or anything stereotypically "manly". The only sports I practiced was swimming later in college. I was more like the artistic type, sensible kind boy, and my masculinity was always questioned because I didn't behave as "boys should be". That was my experience.

In our society, even if things have changed, there's still this box of what a man should be and how they should behave. Guys learn how to follow this because if they don't fit in that box, they are considered soft, weak or less. In our society, the alpha male is the ideal man. That's why I posted the question. I don't know if the term "toxic masculinity is appropriate or if, but the issue exists.

 

[palakaorion]

Telling me I'm toxic, instead of whatever it is you have issue with about me, reduces me to a label or a diagnosis. Nobody likes to be reduced.

 

[JayPR]

Telling me I'm toxic, instead of whatever it is you have issue with about me, reduces me to a label or a diagnosis. Nobody likes to be reduced.

I don't get it. If you're a man, why do you feel that the word toxic refers to you? Masculinity is not the problem here. As far as i researched, "toxic masculinity" doesn't refer to manly men that are proud to be men. When people use the term "toxic" masculinity they're not referring to you as a person, as an individual, or to any man. It is all about a certain behavior or ways of thinking that reduces being a man to just one way of being a man. It is called "toxic" as a way to say that it's something that has negative effects on other men. Maybe not you, but to other men.

When people in our society feel forced to behave a certain way to fit a mold that it is accepted by the majority of people, some people are going to be against it and will call it out. If you don't relate to it, why are you triggered?

I'm pretty sure that the same happens to other issues as well. For example, it is like when in the US people are talking about racism or "white supremacists", and white people get triggered. No one is saying that just because you're white, you're a racist. Same with "feminazi", not all feminists or all women who believe in equality are feminazis, so why are so many women getting offended?