Gay or Nah?

[AllieHeidi]

How is it any science to say that SOME trans women don`t have male skeletons?

Because trans women are biologically male. Hence, they have male skeletons. If they had female skeletons, they wouldn't be trans in the first place.

It isn`t and I never claimed it was.

Then why are you in this thread?

I get this, I`m straight and I don`t like vagina either, I wouldn`t have sex with someone with a vagina.

Once again, why are you in this thread? You've been taking it off on a tangent that was never initially being argued since like page 4ish, and I'm done giving said tangents any further attention.

You agree PIV sex isn't gay sex. Thank you. Next?

 

[Chiballana]

Because trans women are biologically male. Hence, they have male skeletons. If they had female skeletons, they wouldn't be trans in the first place.

you are being ridiculous, I didn`t mean their genetic sex but how they will be recognized when they are dug up, for some reason you are very fixated on this. Do CAIS women have biologically male skeletons even though they never masculinized?

Then why are you in this thread?

Because you say inaccurate things that need to pushed back against.

Once again, why are you in this thread? You've been taking it off on a tangent that was never initially being argued since like page 4ish, and I'm done giving said tangents any further attention.

You agree PIV sex isn't gay sex. Thank you. Next?

Yes, is is true that PIV sex isn`t 100% gay sex. That doesn`t mean that everything you say is accurate.

 

[006]

And this is the gist of my issue with this thread. This is your opinion, which you are entitled to.

As far as a penis going into a vagina, how it is regarded depends on who is involved. Some will see it as straight sex like you.

This is my opinion too. She started this thread because I and many other posters were making this same point in the threads about gay men experimenting with pussy and the thread about gay men having sex with FTMs, and it was derailing those threads. She graciously started this thread so this discussion would have a proper home.

 

[AllieHeidi]

She graciously started this thread so this discussion would have a proper home.

That part.

I suppose I should at least put a disclaimer here, now. I personally don't care who is fucking who as long as both parties are consenting adults. But when it comes to the matter of having sex with trans people, that exists within a very unique category of human sexuality, I think. And that's 100% okay. What's not okay is calling PIV sex gay sex. That is an objective falsehood with potentially very damaging social consequences for our community.

If one is a lesbian who doesn't mind taking dick from trans women. Fine. If one is a gay man who doesn't mind fucking trans man pussy. Okay. Do you boo. But don't piss on me and tell me it's rain. If a penis is entering a vagina at any point, it is officially no longer homosexual territory. That is a male and a female having sex with extra steps. Period.

 

[XtunaStan]

@MisterB @Chiballana relax guys, it's ok to be bisexual

 

[Chiballana]

@MisterB @Chiballana relax guys, it's ok to be bisexual

I'm not bisexual, I'm just not transphobic

 

[MisterB]

When you have people in our community calling what is blatantly a heterosexual encounter "gay sex" it's flirting with conversion therapy "being gay is a choice" territory. That absolutely does affect me. Words matter. Changing the definition of gay from same-sex attraction to same gender attraction is a problem.

No, it really doesn't affect you. You and a few others need to put down your pearls.

You nor I get to define what same-sex attraction is. For some it's all about the genitals. For others, it's not. I continue to fail to see what the issue is other than you and a few others trying to tell other gay folks how they should feel about FTM.

Not your business.

You can disagree all you want, but keep your disagreement on that specific issue to yourself and stay on topic by explaining how PIV sex is actually 100% gay sex.

It is for many. Just not for you and some others. Again, not your business.

Gay men don't want vagina. Gay women don't want penis. Why exactly do you think that is? Hmmmmm.

This is simply not true. But then I'm not one to repeatedly speak for a demographic of which I am not part. That I have no knowledge of other than second-hand. That's why you won't see me speak to your comment that gay women don't want penis, other than to say I know of a few women who identify as gay and do enjoy penis. I know even more who enjoy dildos and penis-replicas. I've conversed with a few such women here at LPSG!

That's why you should not be speaking for the gay men demographic; you are not part of that. It's tedious to read the musings of those who just do not know. I heard. I read. Not the same as being part of the group and having the actual real-life experience.

Also important not to make blanket generalized statements about gay men. You forgot the qualifier "some" as in some gay men don't want vagina; some gay men here have mentioned they've been with FTMs. Some didn't care the man they were with didn't have a penis; had a gasp, vagina. One particular poster wasn't sure if he liked it or not and doesn't think he wants to do that again. Which like the gay men who did enjoy their liaison with an FTM, is his business. Doesn't change the fact that these gay men are still gay men.

#endthegatekeeping

 

[englad]

Don’t genetics and chromosomes have a part in creating the things you list as turn ons.

Interesting that you don’t include vagina.

Well, why would I? Not having a speculum or being an OBGYN, I've never seen a vagina, it is an internal sexual organ. I don't fantasise about internal sexual organs or mouths, rectums or hands for that matter. Even though I'm well aware of how good the latter three feel on the genitals.

As for vulvas, I'm indifferent about them. They neither turn me on nor turn me off. In the context of a trans man, I see it more as "not having a penis" than having something else. There are several cis men I've slept with where they didn't want their penis to be interacted with, and/or I didn't see it at all. That is more frustrating for me personally than not having one in the first place.

As for what creates that I listed as turn ons, the key ingredient is testosterone, and I personally don't care whether that hormone is produced naturally by the person or topped up through HRT. I do not give a fuck because it's the results that are hot.

 

[006]

Well, why would I? Not having a speculum or being an OBGYN, I've never seen a vagina, it is an internal sexual organ. I don't fantasise about internal sexual organs or mouths, rectums or hands for that matter. Even though I'm well aware of how good the latter three feel on the genitals.

As for vulvas, I'm indifferent about them. They neither turn me on nor turn me off. In the context of a trans man, I see it more as "not having a penis" than having something else. There are several cis men I've slept with where they didn't want their penis to be interacted with, and/or I didn't see it at all. That is more frustrating for me personally than not having one in the first place.

As for what creates that I listed as turn ons, the key ingredient is testosterone, and I personally don't care whether that hormone is produced naturally by the person or topped up through HRT. I do not give a fuck because it's the results that are hot.

Good for you. I don’t think anyone is saying you shouldn’t feel that way.

I think what is being said (and debated) is the fact that the act of penis-in-vagina sex is a heterosexual act. Just a biological statement of fact. Sex acts between two people of the same biological sex (with the same sexual organs) are homosexual acts.

But I don’t think anyone here is saying it’s wrong for someone to be attracted to a trans person. I also don’t think it’s being “judgemental” to discuss it specifically.

 

[dreambridger]

interesting watch for anyone involved in this discussion

 

[AllieHeidi]

[PIV sex} is [gay sex] for many. Just not for you and some others. Again, not your business.

How Sway??

I know of a few women who identify as gay and do enjoy penis.

They can identify as flamingos for all I care. If they're willingly fucking men every now and then, those women are bisexual.

 

[XtunaStan]

#endthegatekeeping

Ooof this reeks of conversion therapy thinly veiled under "progressivism"

 

[dreambridger]

Ooof this reeks of conversion therapy thinly veiled under "progressivism"

how so? how does ending gatekeeping threaten your freedom to choose your partner?

 

[sonny84]

"Male Skeletons" !?

 

[MisterB]

How Sway??

In case you are not aware, let me remind you that it is a violation of LPSG Rules to change a Member's post when you quote it, which is exactly what you did when you made this nonsensical reply.

They can identify as flamingos for all I care. If they're willingly fucking men every now and then, those women are bisexual.

Thank you for making my point for me. They can identify as however they wish to identify. Thank You!

Ooof this reeks of conversion therapy thinly veiled under "progressivism"

Please elaborate.

 

[AllieHeidi]

In case you are not aware, let me remind you that it is a violation of LPSG Rules to change a Member's post when you quote it

No I wasn't aware of that. It's also why I put it in brackets to clarify which portion of my post you were replying to in the quote and make it clear you didn't say it directly. Usually, brackets in print imply the speaker didn't directly say that word and it is only being inserted as context for readers. It wasn't malicious.

Brackets in direct quotes

 

[hairy20]

You can be into ftm and still be gay. Let's be honest though it's 100% a fetish in that case. Every gay man is naturally attracted to the same sex and most of them haven't and never will develop a taste for the opposite sex and their genitals even after top surgeries. It's an acquired taste.

Personally it took me over a decade of watching porn to find some transmen attractive.

 

[AllieHeidi]

I wouldn't go so far as to say it's 100% a fetish. At least not 100% of the time. I believe attraction for trans people exists in a very unique space on the sexuality spectrum. I stand by my theory that in this case, androphilia is simply overriding the homosexual attraction when there is an unconscious indifference to female genitalia.

I personally find this discussion with an evolutionary biologist and former Harvard professor quite profound and thought-provoking regarding key issues on this topic overall.

 

[Chiballana]

That part.

I suppose I should at least put a disclaimer here, now. I personally don't care who is fucking who as long as both parties are consenting adults. But when it comes to the matter of having sex with trans people, that exists within a very unique category of human sexuality, I think. And that's 100% okay. What's not okay is calling PIV sex gay sex. That is an objective falsehood with potentially very damaging social consequences for our community.

If one is a lesbian who doesn't mind taking dick from trans women. Fine. If one is a gay man who doesn't mind fucking trans man pussy. Okay. Do you boo. But don't piss on me and tell me it's rain. If a penis is entering a vagina at any point, it is officially no longer homosexual territory. That is a male and a female having sex with extra steps. Period.

Many monosexuals have dated trans people, I wouldn't say PIV sex Is gay sex but that's not what I have in mind.

 

[Smallteaplant]

I would consider male/ftm sex heterosexual because biologically it's a vaginal sex(penis-vagina). So I would consider it straight on some level. This whole debate hinges on whether one's subjective feelings should dictate reality. Just because someone views something as x, doesn't mean that it's x if it doesn't fit the criteria or definition of x.

I hate this debate because most people would consider a straight man having sex with a transwoman bisexual or gay. Outside of liberal and Western circles, most people are calling the couple below gay.