How the porn industry is killing male intimacy

[Chiballana]

A phobia refers to an irrational fear. This very forum, and plenty of platforms are full of threads of gay and bisexual seeking methodologies to observe and partake the sexuality specifically of men that are straight. I'd wager the "Ask a Straight Man " section has maybe 5% of the questions being lodged by women interested in men, if I'm being generous. 90% is gay and bi men, as well as some MTF transwomen seeking loopholes in seeing straight men naked, or touching them, etc. That's not even getting to threads that of which gyms/locker rooms are most full of opportunity.
I think most straight dudes may overestimate their individual appeal to gay guys around them, but gay guys, in their own words and writings have made their subtle predation clear enough that I think most straight men are justified in some level of apprehension of communal nudity that isn't necessarily rooted in some pornographic misconception.

sorry, but are you implying that trans women need loopholes in order to see straight men naked? As a post op and "cis passing" trans woman, I can assure you it is extremely easy

 

[Sagittarius84]

sorry, but are you implying that trans women need loopholes in order to see straight men naked? As a post op and "cis passing" trans woman, I can assure you it is extremely easy

Not every transwoman is passing, nor do all opt for bottom surgeries....your exception doesn't make the rule, and it is just as likely your type of experiences are more due to "passive" deception(non disclosure) or from closeted bisexual men

 

[Chiballana]

Not every transwoman is passing, nor do all opt for bottom surgeries....your exception doesn't make the rule, and it is just as likely your type of experiences are more due to "passive" deception(non disclosure) or from closeted bisexual men

true, and it`s true I don`t usually disclose. Are you suggesting no straight man would willingly sleep with a trans woman knowing she`s trans? If so, I have a bridge to sell you

 

[Sagittarius84]

true, and it`s true I don`t usually disclose. Are you suggesting no straight man would willingly sleep with a trans woman knowing she`s trans? If so, I have a bridge to sell you

Sell away...I think you can definitely make a case for straight men's visual Trans attraction, no different from straight women's aesthetic appreciation of metrosexual men...doesn't really translate into a willingness to engage physically.

 

[Chiballana]

Sell away...I think you can definitely make a case for straight men's visual Trans attraction, no different from straight women's aesthetic appreciation of metrosexual men...doesn't really translate into a willingness to engage physically.

if a straight man interacts with a person with a completely female phenotype who looks, sounds, tastes, feels and smells like any other female, then you are very gullible if you believe that none of them will remain attracted after they find out they have transitioned.

 

[Sagittarius84]

if a straight man interacts with a person with a completely female phenotype who looks, sounds, tastes, feels and smells like any other female, then you are very gullible if you believe that none of them will remain attracted after they find out they have transitioned.

Awww, you think prolonged attraction is the only reason a straight man would continue to deal with a transwoman post disclosure...as if no other factors are at play, especially since at this point he's smelled, tasted and touched what he thought was a ciswoman?
This was a mini phenomenon in the hip hop world not too long ago, where male artists would be "outed" by jilted groupies that initially presented as ciswomen. In subsequent interviews transwomen that are out now have described their previous days as video vixens, and how they would use techniques to give sexual favors and access that wouldn't necessarily out them as trans, allowing them to subtly or openly extort the artist for money, access, or even additional sexual encounters to keep them from "outing" the artist.
Cardi Bs M.O. prior to social media then musical fame, was as a stripper/escort working with transwomen to rob/rape men interested in a sexual transaction with Cardi, the evidence of which would compel the victimized men to keep silent or allow themselves to extorted for additional monies or access lest they be outed.
Transwomen are adept at sniffing out men who aren't aware or accepting of their bisexuality, they are not consensually pairing with straight men. You should talk more to ciswomen, they have all types of experiences with straight men that are no longer attracted to them but will stay in an established relationship for fear of social backlash or socioeconomic consequence. Why do you think "cheaper to keep her" is a phrase?

 

[Chiballana]

Awww, you think prolonged attraction is the only reason a straight man would continue to deal with a transwoman post disclosure...as if no other factors are at play, especially since at this point he's smelled, tasted and touched what he thought was a ciswoman?
This was a mini phenomenon in the hip hop world not too long ago, where male artists would be "outed" by jilted groupies that initially presented as ciswomen. In subsequent interviews transwomen that are out now have described their previous days as video vixens, and how they would use techniques to give sexual favors and access that wouldn't necessarily out them as trans, allowing them to subtly or openly extort the artist for money, access, or even additional sexual encounters to keep them from "outing" the artist.
Cardi Bs M.O. prior to social media then musical fame, was as a stripper/escort working with transwomen to rob/rape men interested in a sexual transaction with Cardi, the evidence of which would compel the victimized men to keep silent or allow themselves to extorted for additional monies or access lest they be outed.
Transwomen are adept at sniffing out men who aren't aware or accepting of their bisexuality, they are not consensually pairing with straight men. You should talk more to ciswomen, they have all types of experiences with straight men that are no longer attracted to them but will stay in an established relationship for fear of social backlash or socioeconomic consequence. Why do you think "cheaper to keep her" is a phrase?

How cynical must one be to not realize that by Occam`s razor you could easily deduce that the most likely reason is that he fell in love with her. Or you know, considering he`s already smelled, tasted and touched her and was satisfied with it, then they may consider that the offer is "good enough". If by men who aren`t aware and accepting out their sexuality you mean trans chasers, then I can assure you many trans women avoid them like the plague. Also, what social backlash would a straight man experience for leaving a trans woman in a transphobic society?

Though it is true few trans women consensually pair with straight men, which also has to do with the fact most are pre op and don`t pass, I can refer you to more than a few examples where they have done so. Of course, if your base position is that no straight man in the world would do it knowing beforehand, nothing I present to you will convince you. I had a straight fwb who I knew had been in a relationship with a post op tw, once I disclosed I was trans he was upset about it. I confronted him about his ex and he told me that he never wanted to be involved with a TW again, that he had been an open minded straight guy when he met her (she disclosed immediately) but after going through that relationship he only wanted to be involved with XX women in the future. You can also look up Janet Mock`s experience with her former husband (who didn`t know at first) and Nikkie de Jager`s case (though in that case it wasn`t disclosed until engagement).

 

[Sagittarius84]

How cynical must one be to not realize that by Occam`s razor you could easily deduce that the most likely reason is that he fell in love with her.

Straight women's application of Occams Razor to men's sexual activity is why far too many of them associate a man's sexual attraction with his interest in some sort of long term monogamous relationship. Players, Future archetypes and fuckbois, might as well have it tattooed upon them because most of their success stems from its overapplication.

Also, what social backlash would a straight man experience for leaving a trans woman in a transphobic society?

The backlash comes from the association in the 1st place, as quite often the information doesn't come out until the transwoman has been jilted or spurned.
Again transwomen should humble themselves and started really listening to the experiences of ciswomen when it comes to dealing with us straight men, because the experiences are mirrored.
You know how in hetero world women are much more likely to break apart relationships than men, If you ask either gender, women will say men will simply check out in an effort to get her to drop the hammer, to which more than a few men calculate the backlash will be less if she opts to leave the relationship of her own accord, than if he chooses to end a relationship she's happy with.
I can imagine more than a few straight men that found themselves unknowingly in an entanglement with a transwoman that the public at large was unaware of, the same way they do with cheating women, or women they've fallen out of love with, bet on the best way to save face was for her to dump him then incur the wrath if he opted to dump her.

 

[Chiballana]

Straight women's application of Occams Razor to men's sexual activity is why far too many of them associate a man's sexual attraction with his interest in some sort of long term monogamous relationship. Players, Future archetypes and fuckbois, might as well have it tattooed upon them because most of their success stems from its overapplication.

I wasn't necessarily thinking about a casual relationship, but a romantic relationship with comittment involved.

The backlash comes from the association in the 1st place, as quite often the information doesn't come out until the transwoman has been jilted or spurned.
Again transwomen should humble themselves and started really listening to the experiences of ciswomen when it comes to dealing with us straight men, because the experiences are mirrored.
You know how in hetero world women are much more likely to break apart relationships than men, If you ask either gender, women will say men will simply check out in an effort to get her to drop the hammer, to which more than a few men calculate the backlash will be less if she opts to leave the relationship of her own accord, than if he chooses to end a relationship she's happy with.
I can imagine more than a few straight men that found themselves unknowingly in an entanglement with a transwoman that the public at large was unaware of, the same way they do with cheating women, or women they've fallen out of love with, bet on the best way to save face was for her to dump him then incur the wrath if he opted to dump her.

Of course some men Will remain because of the reasons you state, but you're discounting the straight men that stay in the relationship because they're in love and feel like their emotional and sexual needs are met in it, their partner's transness notwithstanding.

 

[FrankieGuile]

I’ve come to the conclusion that the discussion regarding how pornography may have detrimental effects on male self-image is closely tied to the increasing reluctance to expose nudity in a communal context. The porn industry has contributed to creating an even greater taboo surrounding male nudity. In the past, communal showers and open locker rooms were commonplace, and nobody really thought much of it. However, in today's society, many men feel extremely self-conscious about their nudity, and in my opinion this is widely attributed to the influence of pornography. The idea is that constant exposure to images of porn actors with giant dicks and ideal bodies has made men uncomfortable with their own. Due to the fact that we tend to compare ourselves as a natural tendency. This discomfort with male communal nudity directly contributes to the cycle of pornography consumption. As a result, men may not have opportunities to see real, healthy bodies outside of the pornographic context, leading them to believe that the unrealistic standards portrayed in pornography are normal. This lack of healthy external references makes it even more challenging to seek realistic guidance on sex and relationships. Which directly makes them search for more porn since they’re so sure they aren’t suitable for a “real” relationship.


I really think that the deconstruction of this taboo offers a potential solution to address the unrealistic ideals perpetuated by pornography. By promoting a healthier attitude toward communal nudity and embracing a more natural and diverse representation of the male body, we can create a counterbalance to the distorted images found in pornography. Encouraging environments where men feel comfortable in communal settings, such as gyms or locker rooms, can have a positive impact on self-esteem and body image. It can help individuals realize that there is a wide range of body types, none of which should be stigmatized or compared to the exaggerated portrayals often seen in pornography.

Moreover, promoting open discussions about the influence of pornography on self-image and relationships can empower individuals to seek alternative sources of sexual education and intimacy. This includes emphasizing the importance of emotional connection, consent, and realistic expectations in intimate relationships. Breaking down the taboo surrounding communal nudity can contribute to a healthier perspective on the male body and sexuality. It allows individuals to challenge the unrealistic ideals presented in pornography and fosters a more realistic and positive self-image, which is crucial for overall mental and emotional well-being.

Positing that a taboo exists surrounding communal nudity that needs to be broken down is a clever piece rhetoric that should not go unchallenged.

It is fine to be all-in for communal nudity -- and you certainly are full-throated in your support for it! -- but the declaration that society finds it "taboo" and, that if only that taboo were broken down, it would contribute to "a healthier perspective on the male body and sexuality" is purely an invention of your own, no matter these perceptions might be shared by others. They are not truths and they are not facts. They are opinions -- and opinions not backed up by any data you have cited.

I wonder what your solution is for "breaking down the taboo?" Shall we criminalize private showers? Shall we mandate school age boys shower communally after gym class? Do we levy fines against parents who object to the practice?

The solution will not be found in behavioral change, no matter your high-handed scolding, because the populous has spoken and many years of societal behavior evidences a strong preference for private nudity. You might think that behavior is unhealthy but one might think you have a prurient agenda to pursue.

 

[Hot4Blonds]

I'd agree with your premise if it were not for one determining factor you've left out: the attraction of women.
I believe a world where women both openly express and enthusiastically act upon attraction to a variety of male bodies is one where porn has little to no impact upon male self image. Men fixate upon porn because it is a realm of men whom illicit genuine, unchecked desire from women, as opposed to the conditional, often transactional intimacy most men hope will even be offered in a relationship context.
Women have free license to idolize whatever male form they choose, and while they may ideologically profess an openness to all male bodies, their choices and sexual enthusiasm reveal an overwhelming preference for porn worthy men(even if they logically don't enjoy the sociological/relational consequences of that man), and men are inclined to obsess or put themselves into a position to win. Does your average woman see the value in communal male nudity? Are straight men that engage in such activity in a better or worse position to appeal to an average woman?
You can't blame porn, because it serves an audience, it doesn't create it, and if your average man lived in a world where non porn standard male bodies were coveted and acted upon as openly and as commonly as the ideal, it really would not matter what standard or imagery porn put out as ideal, because it couldn't compete with the results of real life.

well said Sagittarius

 

[Hot4Blonds]

I'd agree with your premise if it were not for one determining factor you've left out: the attraction of women.
I believe a world where women both openly express and enthusiastically act upon attraction to a variety of male bodies is one where porn has little to no impact upon male self image. Men fixate upon porn because it is a realm of men whom illicit genuine, unchecked desire from women, as opposed to the conditional, often transactional intimacy most men hope will even be offered in a relationship context.
Women have free license to idolize whatever male form they choose, and while they may ideologically profess an openness to all male bodies, their choices and sexual enthusiasm reveal an overwhelming preference for porn worthy men(even if they logically don't enjoy the sociological/relational consequences of that man), and men are inclined to obsess or put themselves into a position to win. Does your average woman see the value in communal male nudity? Are straight men that engage in such activity in a better or worse position to appeal to an average woman?
You can't blame porn, because it serves an audience, it doesn't create it, and if your average man lived in a world where non porn standard male bodies were coveted and acted upon as openly and as commonly as the ideal, it really would not matter what standard or imagery porn put out as ideal, because it couldn't compete with the results of real life.

well said Sagittarius.

Moreover, today we are in a period of overcorrection, in which women are demonstrating empowerment by rejecting men whenever possible. They are rejecting men even when they may actually feel an attraction simply to demonstrate some sense of power and dominance. And they called this being a feminist and an empowered woman.

In Angelita’s defense, I wonder if communal male nudity would break the taboo of young men feeling they need to display homophobic behaviors in order to assert their heterosexuality. If young men could feel a brotherhood through communal nudity, and break the taboo that having homosexual encounters while waiting for a woman to show them affection, could allow men to not only relieve their own sexual tension, but create a bond with other men that no longer exists.

Interesting discussion.

 

[Evenflow618]

Porn is rotting men’s and women’s brains. Most importantly it is making men so much weaker as they ejaculate multiple times a day to pornography. Even more so its destroying the capability in the bedroom. The more studies that come out describing young men having erectile dysfunction is definitely connected to the access of young men watching porn. This creates unrealistic perception on sex and bonding with women. Possibly gay men are having this issue as well.

 

[Sagittarius84]

If young men could feel a brotherhood through communal nudity, and break the taboo that having homosexual encounters while waiting for a woman to show them affection, could allow men to not only relieve their own sexual tension, but create a bond with other men that no longer exists.

I'm not going to encourage bisexuality in order for men to relieve sexual tension...1st off I don't think truly straight men will benefit psychologically from homoerotic encounter, 2nd I think said engagement will further ostracize men from sexual access from women, because while they tend to be ideologically and aesthically allied with sexual fluidity in general, women are extremely transphobic and homophobic when it comes to the men they would like to have sex with.
The problem isn't porn, it's that porn in all its hyperbole and falsified depiction of real world intimacy, manages to accurately portray the microcosm of men women are most likely to enthusiastically and non committally fuck. If porn has a problem, it's that it deprives women of the plausible deniability they can offer men, when men deduce the hypocrisies and self destructive mating and dating choices women fight tooth and nail to maintain. Secondarily porn affords the men whom fall outside of the scope of women's selectivities, to get some measure of sexual fulfillment that can't be commoditized by women at large. Women's social entitlement of men's collective efforts, attention and resources tends to stem from the mere possibility they may offer sexual access, porn undermined all this and forces women to have to actively work to attain the attention, efforts, and resources of men they don't necessarily desire (as they typically have no leverage to get it from the few men they actually do desire)

 

[Sagittarius84]

Porn is rotting men’s and women’s brains.

What's interesting is about 120yrs ago if you had asked an anti suffragette, she'd have postulated women having equal rights, agency, and autonomy to men was going to rot the family structure.
What I often find is that when a new technology, social order, or medium is unleashed upon the masses, a renegotiation of the social contract and roles takes place, and those that were comfortable in the old order will insist a "rot" is taking place.
Both men and women had to endure the good and bad consequences of women having rights, income, and agency, and we are steadily trying to redefine what that means for relationships and families. I think our social expectations for intimacy, production, and infrastructure are going to have to be renegotiated because porn is filling a niche, particularly for men, that is no longer satisfied by the new social order that no longer incentivizes men to meet those expectations.

 

[FrankieGuile]

I'm not going to encourage bisexuality in order for men to relieve sexual tension...1st off I don't think truly straight men will benefit psychologically from homoerotic encounter, 2nd I think said engagement will further ostracize men from sexual access from women, because while they tend to be ideologically and aesthically allied with sexual fluidity in general, women are extremely transphobic and homophobic when it comes to the men they would like to have sex with.
The problem isn't porn, it's that porn in all its hyperbole and falsified depiction of real world intimacy, manages to accurately portray the microcosm of men women are most likely to enthusiastically and non committally fuck. If porn has a problem, it's that it deprives women of the plausible deniability they can offer men, when men deduce the hypocrisies and self destructive mating and dating choices women fight tooth and nail to maintain. Secondarily porn affords the men whom fall outside of the scope of women's selectivities, to get some measure of sexual fulfillment that can't be commoditized by women at large. Women's social entitlement of men's collective efforts, attention and resources tends to stem from the mere possibility they may offer sexual access, porn undermined all this and forces women to have to actively work to attain the attention, efforts, and resources of men they don't necessarily desire (as they typically have no leverage to get it from the few men they actually do desire)

...all I processed was that "...women to have to actively work to attain the attention, efforts, and resources of men." Just one problem: where are all these women?!!!

 

[Sagittarius84]

...all I processed was that "...women to have to actively work to attain the attention, efforts, and resources of men." Just one problem: where are all these women?!!!

Complaining about being single, and how "no guys want to commit"....there's a couple out there...lol

 

[FrankieGuile]

Complaining about being single, and how "no guys want to commit"....there's a couple out there...lol

My jocularity aside, you raised a provocative question worthy of its own thread, to wit: does porn undermine a woman's power over men to provide incentive such that men behave as reliable, protective, devoted agents of providing for their women and children?

 

[Sagittarius84]

My jocularity aside, you raised a provocative question worthy of its own thread, to wit: does porn undermine a woman's power over men to provide incentive such that men behave as reliable, protective, devoted agents of providing for their women and children?

More like I believe porn provides a reprieve for men, as being a reliable, protective, devoted agent of provision for women and children is no longer positively incentivized as in days of old. Women that actually pair with men with equal or lesser "sexual market value" aren't going to see any of their "power" undermined, the power loss is for women that still glean protection, provision, and attention from men they won't pair with..
Honestly given how history tends to go we really lucked out with the nexus of porn and social media really hitting its stride just as more and more men are deemed undesirable by women collectively. In yrs past, or in locales not as aligned with Western ideologies, an increase the number of straight men not getting access to sex or children meant that war was coming, both as a means to satiate the disenfranchised men as well as cull a fair number of them, or roving bands of rapists would express their frustrations upon more and more average women.

 

[FrankieGuile]

More like I believe porn provides a reprieve for men, as being a reliable, protective, devoted agent of provision for women and children is no longer positively incentivized as in days of old. Women that actually pair with men with equal or lesser "sexual market value" aren't going to see any of their "power" undermined, the power loss is for women that still glean protection, provision, and attention from men they won't pair with..
Honestly given how history tends to go we really lucked out with the nexus of porn and social media really hitting its stride just as more and more men are deemed undesirable by women collectively. In yrs past, or in locales not as aligned with Western ideologies, an increase the number of straight men not getting access to sex or children meant that war was coming, both as a means to satiate the disenfranchised men as well as cull a fair number of them, or roving bands of rapists would express their frustrations upon more and more average women.

To the extent women find men less desirable -- an underlying assumption of yours I'll embrace momentarily for the sake of discussion -- it might be because men are acting less and less manly, manifested as a failure to provide emotional, financial and physical security over the long haul. I will posit that those behaviors trump any physical attribute a man may possess that might be desired by a female. (I know I just spoke blasphemy on LPSG by implying a big dick is not the most desirable thing in the world for women).