POZ Undetectable...

[WilliamG]

So as the title suggests... What does this mean for you as someone looking to hookup (rather than a LTR)? Especially for those that are not HIV... Does it change things? Would you request condom? Would you walk away? I see many guys listed on sites that put that out there. Good on them for being upfront. But does it change your approach on the hookup? I know Prep is a real game changer for many in that position. So wondering how this has changed the dating scene (if at all) for you?

 

[Genuinkguy]

avoid any person with a word Poz in their hookup profile or whatever, dont trust Preps.

 

[WilliamG]

avoid any person with a word Poz in their hookup profile or whatever, dont trust Preps.

I would agree. I was approached by a guy who was upfront about it. I told him sorry but no. Even with a condom as I'm in a discreet situation...

Maybe these guys gravitate to others that are POZ and on Prep as well?

 

[winesthel945]

I would suggest that your logic is entirely backwards if you think you're being safer for your "discreet" situation.

The guy who tells you he's undetectable is more likely to be being honest, and accurate, as he's likely to be on his meds and testing regularly. That's because the guy who tells you he's negative may or may not be lying, or may not have any fucking clue because he doesn't test regularly.

Now, if you don't trust the science and the medicine, that's an entirely different problem for you. But statistically speaking, you're less likely to catch ANYTHING from the undetectable guy, because not only is the science clear that undetectable means not transmissible to a statistical certainty, but the guy who's undetectable is also likely testing regularly for STIs too and so is going to be on top of that as well.

Sure, you can still use a condom, and if that helps with your confidence, great. And if you're on PrEP, then statistically you're more likely to get in a car accident on the way to the hookup than you are to get HIV from an encounter with someone undetectable.

So, let's be honest here... this is about your fear, not the science. And your fear is leading you to irrational conclusions. That said, you do you. The undetectable people you're not fucking are probably better off not dealing with your baggage.

 

[LPSG Simon]

I would suggest that your logic is entirely backwards if you think you're being safer for your "discreet" situation.

The guy who tells you he's undetectable is more likely to be being honest, and accurate, as he's likely to be on his meds and testing regularly. That's because the guy who tells you he's negative may or may not be lying, or may not have any fucking clue because he doesn't test regularly.

Now, if you don't trust the science and the medicine, that's an entirely different problem for you. But statistically speaking, you're less likely to catch ANYTHING from the undetectable guy, because not only is the science clear that undetectable means not transmissible to a statistical certainty, but the guy who's undetectable is also likely testing regularly for STIs too and so is going to be on top of that as well.

Sure, you can still use a condom, and if that helps with your confidence, great. And if you're on PrEP, then statistically you're more likely to get in a car accident on the way to the hookup than you are to get HIV from an encounter with someone undetectable.

So, let's be honest here... this is about your fear, not the science. And your fear is leading you to irrational conclusions. That said, you do you. The undetectable people you're not fucking are probably better off not dealing with your baggage.

Just dropping some links to support your info here.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(19)30418-0/fulltext

A Brief History of U=U

Zero transmissions mean zero risk – PARTNER 2 study results announced

...There are of course some possible variations in this, like wether the person is adherent to their treatment regimen, etc. but like @winesthel945 mentioned, you have a way higher chance of getting in an auto accident on the way there. People who know their status are leagues away from people in terms of risk than say a closeted straight guy who has been trained to think about birth control first, and thinks it will never happen to them because HIV is a 'gay disease'.

Bottom line of course is that safer sex is a 'buck stops here' proposition for everyone, so you do you, but make sure you know the facts.

 

[WilliamG]

Just dropping some links to support your info here.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(19)30418-0/fulltext

A Brief History of U=U

Zero transmissions mean zero risk – PARTNER 2 study results announced

...There are of course some possible variations in this, like wether the person is adherent to their treatment regimen, etc. but like @winesthel945 mentioned, you have a way higher chance of getting in an auto accident on the way there. People who know their status are leagues away from people in terms of risk than say a closeted straight guy who has been trained to think about birth control first, and thinks it will never happen to them because HIV is a 'gay disease'.

Bottom line of course is that safer sex is a 'buck stops here' proposition for everyone, so you do you, but make sure you know the facts.

Great info! Thanks!

I would suggest that your logic is entirely backwards if you think you're being safer for your "discreet" situation.

The guy who tells you he's undetectable is more likely to be being honest, and accurate, as he's likely to be on his meds and testing regularly. That's because the guy who tells you he's negative may or may not be lying, or may not have any fucking clue because he doesn't test regularly.

Now, if you don't trust the science and the medicine, that's an entirely different problem for you. But statistically speaking, you're less likely to catch ANYTHING from the undetectable guy, because not only is the science clear that undetectable means not transmissible to a statistical certainty, but the guy who's undetectable is also likely testing regularly for STIs too and so is going to be on top of that as well.

Sure, you can still use a condom, and if that helps with your confidence, great. And if you're on PrEP, then statistically you're more likely to get in a car accident on the way to the hookup than you are to get HIV from an encounter with someone undetectable.

So, let's be honest here... this is about your fear, not the science. And your fear is leading you to irrational conclusions. That said, you do you. The undetectable people you're not fucking are probably better off not dealing with your baggage.

Your comments are very educational for me. That's why I posted this here. As you can see I'm ignorant of these studies. @LPSG Simon posted very useful links. Thanks for your enlightenment.

 

[hale989]

I’m on prep. No concerns about POZ undetectable. Bareback, swallowing- all ok. U=U.

 

[Genuinkguy]

I would suggest that your logic is entirely backwards if you think you're being safer for your "discreet" situation.

The guy who tells you he's undetectable is more likely to be being honest, and accurate, as he's likely to be on his meds and testing regularly. That's because the guy who tells you he's negative may or may not be lying, or may not have any fucking clue because he doesn't test regularly.

Now, if you don't trust the science and the medicine, that's an entirely different problem for you. But statistically speaking, you're less likely to catch ANYTHING from the undetectable guy, because not only is the science clear that undetectable means not transmissible to a statistical certainty, but the guy who's undetectable is also likely testing regularly for STIs too and so is going to be on top of that as well.

Sure, you can still use a condom, and if that helps with your confidence, great. And if you're on PrEP, then statistically you're more likely to get in a car accident on the way to the hookup than you are to get HIV from an encounter with someone undetectable.

So, let's be honest here... this is about your fear, not the science. And your fear is leading you to irrational conclusions. That said, you do you. The undetectable people you're not fucking are probably better off not dealing with your baggage.

at the end of the day, being discreet with condoms and avoid POZ, preps etc is lot less riskier than anything else, so its up to you at the end of the day, I protect myself not others, then if you end up catching some nasty stuff is your fault, not mine nor people like me then dont complain about people avoiding you because you werent able to protect yourself. I stay with my views you stay with yours, thats fine we go separate ways and live with it. Preps dont protect you from many nasty things, science is business too, science have recommended many thing over decades to then tell you to stop having what they recommended before.

 

[Genuinkguy]

at the end of the day, being discreet with condoms and avoid POZ, preps etc is lot less riskier than anything else, so its up to you at the end of the day, I protect myself not others, then if you end up catching some nasty stuff is your fault, not mine nor people like me then dont complain about people avoiding you because you werent able to protect yourself. I stay with my views you stay with yours, thats fine we go separate ways and live with it. Preps dont protect you from many nasty things, science is business too, science have recommended many thing over decades to then tell you to stop having what they recommended before.

I prefer to use the old methods without having the need to take chemicals or laboratories products everytime i want to have sex, just because other people didnt protected themselves.

 

[WilliamG]

at the end of the day, being discreet with condoms and avoid POZ, preps etc is lot less riskier than anything else, so its up to you at the end of the day, I protect myself not others, then if you end up catching some nasty stuff is your fault, not mine nor people like me then dont complain about people avoiding you because you werent able to protect yourself. I stay with my views you stay with yours, thats fine we go separate ways and live with it. Preps dont protect you from many nasty things, science is business too, science have recommended many thing over decades to then tell you to stop having what they recommended before.

Well as the OP of this... Your opinion is very valid to me. That's why I came here. I'm an older man who grew up straight yet in a very Bohemian beach city. But, then I watched my Uncle pass away from complications of AIDS during the height of the epidemic. It was such a marker in my life as he was my fave uncle to hang with. His sister who was an ER nurse even changed her vocation to hospice care for AIDS patients after he passed.

And while it's wonderful to see that one can live their full life after contracting HIV, I still have my memories of the past on it (I'm sure some others here do too). So I'm still a condom guy for sure.

 

[BeardyCub86]

One of my ex-bfs was poz undetectable. Many of my previous sexual partners were poz undetectable. I'm HIV negative. I would never avoid sex with a poz person who is on medication, undetectable, and looks after his health with regular check ups, because I know he's a safer bet than someone who claims to be neg and never goes to get checked.

 

[Genuinkguy]

One of my ex-bfs was poz undetectable. Many of my previous sexual partners were poz undetectable. I'm HIV negative. I would never avoid sex with a poz person who is on medication, undetectable, and looks after his health with regular check ups, because I know he's a safer bet than someone who claims to be neg and never goes to get checked.

do you get checked?

 

[BeardyCub86]

do you get checked?

Yes. At least every 6 months. As you should.

 

[Genuinkguy]

th

Yes. At least every 6 months. As you should.

then your argument just collapsed when you said negative people dont get checks, have a nice day.

 

[BeardyCub86]

I didn’t say “negative people don’t get checks” and you either know that and just wanna twist this to fit your argument, or you can’t read.

 

[Genuinkguy]

One of my ex-bfs was poz undetectable. Many of my previous sexual partners were poz undetectable. I'm HIV negative. I would never avoid sex with a poz person who is on medication, undetectable, and looks after his health with regular check ups, because I know he's a safer bet than someone who claims to be neg and never goes to get checked.

 

[Tsukuyomi0101]

My guy, this isnt the gotcha you think it is. Notice how he used the qualifier THAN. Yeah it means something in the english language.

That all aside, OP in general statistics show someone that is poz undetectable is more likely to be testing regular and someone that is undetectable cannot spread the virus. Most poz people I know get full blood panels once ever 3-6 months, and depending on the person get STI tests at least once a month on average if they are sexually active.

Sex isnt safe, but if you are super worried about STIs and want to have bareback sex, a poz undetectable person might actually be somewhat safer.

 

[Genuinkguy]

My guy, this isnt the gotcha you think it is. Notice how he used the qualifier THAN. Yeah it means something in the english language.

That all aside, OP in general statistics show someone that is poz undetectable is more likely to be testing regular and someone that is undetectable cannot spread the virus. Most poz people I know get full blood panels once ever 3-6 months, and depending on the person get STI tests at least once a month on average if they are sexually active.

Sex isnt safe, but if you are super worried about STIs and want to have bareback sex, a poz undetectable person might actually be somewhat safer.

no thanks, dont need to explain to me all that as I dont want to have any dealing with poz whatsoever.