Why are they trying to force sexual fluidity onto gay men

[jaybee0560]

The phenomenon that people's sexuality change during certain periods of their lives. For example, women who were lesbians suddenly marrying men. Some people who are bisexual go through something called the bi cycle. Where there are months that one gender more attractive than the other. Sexuality is complex. Some argue that sexuality is more a set of configurations. Some argue that sexuality is a spectrum.



This goes back to the question of what are rights. I'm arguing from the position that there are no such thing as rights. Rights are a fiction and can mean different things. But that's another thread without answers. You're arguing that rights is something that will always be there.

Unlike blacks and women, those with homosexual inclinations don't have anything to lavage against the state. Like I mentioned in past post. But you're failed to mention or recognized that point.



The LGBT already lives off toleration and permission.

Rights don't mean "Different things" when you have them constitutionally defined and protected, as most western cultures do.

Changing a constitution by amendment is ridiculously difficult. I live in a country that has these rights defined by legislative law. So no, they are not arbitrary or even based on majority rule and they are not rooted in anyones perception of congenital or otherwise.

To your definition of fluid - yes and no. A "lesbian" who suddenly marries a man isn't suddenly fluid even if they may be fluid. Much like when a "straight man" divorces and marries a man - doesn't mean he is fluid. Both could have been bi the entire time and realised maybe they werent actually lesbian or straight. A small percentage of people are fluid and - once again - you have missed/ avoided the actual point.

That being - if we acknowledge that sexual fluidity is something that effects a small percentage of the population and isn't an actual choice - and that even for sexually fluid people - these changes in our orientation are also not a choice - what possible argument is there that makes any effect on how we treat gay people?

"Unlike blacks and women, those with homosexual inclinations don't have anything to lavage against the state."

and again with this unfounded assertion that rights are bartered for using procreation as a "leverage" .. At a legal level with governments like yours and mine that protect these rights in their constitution - there is literally no need to leverage anything past the merits of your argument.
People have worth beyond their ability or even inclination to procreate - limiting a persons value to society on the basis of their willingness to produce children is you playing the bigots game. If you can't form an argument for why being gay is a neutral societal position that has its own worth - then that is your failing, it is not a sign that this argument lacks merit.

And again - the notion that congenital conditions are afforded protections under law is not refl;ected in reality - I could easily be genetically predisposed to pedophilia - sociopathic or psychopathic behavior and still be restricted under law in how that presents - much like gays were.

People don't care if you are born gay - people don't really care if you are gay. The religious argument here, if you are a religious bigot would be - gay acts are an abomination and you shouldn't be allowed to do them at all. If you are born gay - BFD - that is your challenge.

 

[dreambridger]

I know i'm spending too much time on the internet and it's not supposed to be an indicator of reality, but online I've encountered another handful of LGBTQ-identifying people being homophobic towards gay men. One said, word for word, "cis men who are gay often hate women. Simple as that." and people were really rallying behind them. It upsets me so much, growing up in a conservative area where I heard the trope "gay men are just men who hate women" so much to now be an adult and finding out that supposed progressives and "queer" people repeating identical homophobic rhetoric. It's like there's no escape. Sometimes it feels like gay men are just hated by everyone and nothing's changed.

 

[Beegun84]

I think the bolded is more realistic,it happens every time and it's not "switching sides", it's coming to terms with your sexuality and can you please tell me the shows that are about gay men switching sides?

A French show called J'ai Amours 2 (I Love You 2)

A very prominent German soap called Verbotene Liebe decided to cut up the famous gay couple "Chrolli" with one of them marrying a woman. And the actor who played the gay character (Jo Weil) is also gay/bi himself and struggled to find work and have to move to the UK.

SHOWS ABOUT LEONARDO DA VINCI has been straight-washed 4 times in the past decade!!!! The least damaging one was the one that starred a young Jonathan Bailey in which he's attracted to a cross-dressing girl but they didn't go through with her as the love interest in the end. Da Vinci's Demons by David Goyer turns Leonardo into a womanizer and Fox International distributed it to 175 countries or so, it was the most widely distributed show by Fox International until Cosmos: A Space Odyssey. Last year's Leonardo played by Aidan Turner and even Bros straight-washed Leonardo by saying he's probably bisexual...even though he's most likely gay.

And Tom Riley the actor that played Leonardo in Da Vinci's Demons plays another gay character that marries a woman in Prime Video's The Collection (that scene is the last scene in the finale). That show is quietly cancelled.

Movies that I know of: &Me, Wasp, Three Months and probably others that I haven't watched yet.

Not to mention the epic fail that is Alexander by Oliver Stone.

 

[Jeffer2580]

A French show called J'ai Amours 2 (I Love You 2)

A very prominent German soap called Verbotene Liebe decided to cut up the famous gay couple "Chrolli" with one of them marrying a woman. And the actor who played the gay character (Jo Weil) is also gay/bi himself and struggled to find work and have to move to the UK.

SHOWS ABOUT LEONARDO DA VINCI has been straight-washed 4 times in the past decade!!!! The least damaging one was the one that starred a young Jonathan Bailey in which he's attracted to a cross-dressing girl but they didn't go through with her as the love interest in the end. Da Vinci's Demons by David Goyer turns Leonardo into a womanizer and Fox International distributed it to 175 countries or so, it was the most widely distributed show by Fox International until Cosmos: A Space Odyssey. Last year's Leonardo played by Aidan Turner and even Bros straight-washed Leonardo by saying he's probably bisexual...even though he's most likely gay.

And Tom Riley the actor that played Leonardo in Da Vinci's Demons plays another gay character that marries a woman in Prime Video's The Collection (that scene is the last scene in the finale). That show is quietly cancelled.

Movies that I know of: &Me, Wasp, Three Months and probably others that I haven't watched yet.

Not to mention the epic fail that is Alexander by Oliver Stone.

Most of the movies mentioned here are quite old when straight washing was still a thing,as for Leonardo Da Vinci,we can't say for sure if he was gay,just bits and pieces from history.
It was obvious from the start in J'ai Amours 2 that the character is bi but I hated how the movie ended, it's like he was rewarded for cheating on both people

 

[Beegun84]

Most of the movies mentioned here are quite old when straight washing was still a thing,as for Leonardo Da Vinci,we can't say for sure if he was gay,just bits and pieces from history.
It was obvious from the start in J'ai Amours 2 that the character is bi but I hated how the movie ended, it's like he was rewarded for cheating on both people

Three Months is just a year old

&Me (2013), Wasp (2015)

There's an Israeli movie about a baker marrying his dead lover's wife that's quite recent

And another teen movie from around 2016-2018 saying that it's ok for a gay boy to have relationship with a straight girl even though it's platonic.

And the QAF reboot that everyone wishes it doesn't exist where the main character kisses a trans woman character right at the very end.

And Leonardo had a lover named Salai which is universally known and also convicted if sodomy twice. That's not bits and pieces since he wasn't sexually active at all unlike the current portrayals on TV.

 

[Smallteaplant]

Three Months is just a year old

&Me (2013), Wasp (2015)

There's an Israeli movie about a baker marrying his dead lover's wife that's quite recent

And another teen movie from around 2016-2018 saying that it's ok for a gay boy to have relationship with a straight girl even though it's platonic.

And the QAF reboot that everyone wishes it doesn't exist where the main character kisses a trans woman character right at the very end.

And Leonardo had a lover named Salai which is universally known and also convicted if sodomy twice. That's not bits and pieces since he wasn't sexually active at all unlike the current portrayals on TV.

I think that the film WASP was about sexual fluidity or sexual confusion. The character was written to be confused about his sexuality.

 

[Potpik]

A French show called J'ai Amours 2 (I Love You 2)

A very prominent German soap called Verbotene Liebe decided to cut up the famous gay couple "Chrolli" with one of them marrying a woman. And the actor who played the gay character (Jo Weil) is also gay/bi himself and struggled to find work and have to move to the UK.

SHOWS ABOUT LEONARDO DA VINCI has been straight-washed 4 times in the past decade!!!! The least damaging one was the one that starred a young Jonathan Bailey in which he's attracted to a cross-dressing girl but they didn't go through with her as the love interest in the end. Da Vinci's Demons by David Goyer turns Leonardo into a womanizer and Fox International distributed it to 175 countries or so, it was the most widely distributed show by Fox International until Cosmos: A Space Odyssey. Last year's Leonardo played by Aidan Turner and even Bros straight-washed Leonardo by saying he's probably bisexual...even though he's most likely gay.

And Tom Riley the actor that played Leonardo in Da Vinci's Demons plays another gay character that marries a woman in Prime Video's The Collection (that scene is the last scene in the finale). That show is quietly cancelled.

Movies that I know of: &Me, Wasp, Three Months and probably others that I haven't watched yet.

Not to mention the epic fail that is Alexander by Oliver Stone.

also shameless. Has any gay character in popular films or series ever not been shown as sexually fluid, or atleast curious about women. Funny how, none of the straight main guys never ever seems to be interested in guys sexually, ever.

 

[Beegun84]

also shameless. Has any gay character in popular films or series ever not been shown as sexually fluid, or atleast curious about women. Funny how, none of the straight main guys never ever seems to be interested in guys sexually, ever.

Well in the Philippines there's one TV show called My Husband's Lover. The show was covered in AfterElton/NewNowNext and they were saying this kind of plot is not allowed to get made in the West.

My Husband's Lover wikipedia page


And an inclusive South Korean drama Life is Beautiful, despite it's VERY strong ratings was cancelled after 1 season:

Life is Beautiful wikipedia page


I think Shotgun Wedding will be a lot better if it contains a gay couple, one sassy snarky one and the other the usual classic type. Instead of whatever vanilla mediocrity they are serving right now. The straights got George Clooney and Josh Duhamel while we get.....Billy Eichner.

 

[Beegun84]

I think that the film WASP was about sexual fluidity or sexual confusion. The character was written to be confused about his sexuality.

No I think the female best friend of the gay dude knows she has a chance with his fiance since she crashed their weekend getaway.

Passages is the one about sexual confusion

Passages review (SPOILER warning)

 

[Tom Sugden]

Movies that I know of: &Me, Wasp, Three Months and probably others that I haven't watched yet.

I was curious - what is the content in Three Months? I thought that was about a gay teen and his dating another guy. Or is this another movie?

The Collection is almost the reverse of most of these movies with men who are supposed to be gay but are only shown with women, as if he's meant to be bi, he's usually just shown sexually. with men.

Another on your list could probably be There's Something About Mario.

Spoiler

Mario starts the movie as gay, planning to come out to his family, then meets and sleeps with a woman. He still wants his boyfriend, and deciding he's not gay or straight, he wants them both, which he gets, with a hint they may sleep together too.

 

[alpha_centauri]

Because you see it everywhere in gay TV shows they have The gay male character have sex with a woman to discuss sexual fluidity. there’s a Broadway play called "cock" with the guy from Kingsman playing a gay guy who fell in love with a woman. sex shops are selling pussy toys to gay men and gay porn they have an so-called openly gay men having sex with women. It’s like they pushing this straight agenda onto gay men but they’re not doing that to lesbian women because if they try to do that to lesbian the lesbian women will be upset. they are literally try to erase the G to change it into a umbrella term. The whole queer community has a strong hatred towards gay men in a try to say they going after white gay men but they’re actually going after gay man of every race. They try to maké bisexual pansexual and whatever new label they come up with popular and try to get rid of the existence of gay men who are the foundation of the LGBT community. they literally using homophobia against gay men and homophobic tactics like gay men are misogynistic for not dating a woman or having sex with a woman. The weird queer community is trying to say that game and are living in a box because they do not wanna have sex with a woman how we are living in a box and we are living outside the box of normalcy they trying to literally trying to push us back in the box pushes back in the closet I thought I heard is homophobic conversion therapy rhetoric from the right wingers but now I’m hearing this same homophobic stuff from the left-wing as well this is getting freaking ridiculous

I agree it is weird, if someone is a gay man or homosexual they are not going to be sexually attracted to women, any sort or type of trans person, and there is nothing wrong with a gay man being this way. If a person is homosexual/gay/lesbian they are not bisexual at all.

 

[Beegun84]

I was curious - what is the content in Three Months? I thought that was about a gay teen and his dating another guy. Or is this another movie?

The Collection is almost the reverse of most of these movies with men who are supposed to be gay but are only shown with women, as if he's meant to be bi, he's usually just shown sexually. with men.

Another on your list could probably be There's Something About Mario.

Spoiler

Mario starts the movie as gay, planning to come out to his family, then meets and sleeps with a woman. He still wants his boyfriend, and deciding he's not gay or straight, he wants them both, which he gets, with a hint they may sleep together too.

The collection is just another old cliche that basically says other men are good for sex but women are meant to be married. Glad that noone watched that show and it didn't make the news when it's cancelled.

For Three Months at the end it's left ambiguous (but leaning on yes IMHO) on whether he's going to date his female best friend after the traumatic breakup with his ex.

And yes I haven't seen that Mario movie because I haven't heard about it until now lol. And I'm glad I haven't.

Btw the Last of Us episode 3 is great, we finally get our San Junipero, the floor is 8/10. Anyone grade it below that are either homophobes or live near Boston like Stephen King lol. After the disappointments we have in 2022 with Secrets of Dumbledore, Bros, QAF reboot, Lightyear, Strange World, Eternals etc we finally have a good one. The 2 kissing scenes at the piano and at the strawberry fields could be executed better but overall very very good if a bit rushed. But at least we get a wedding, something we don't get from Bros.

 

[Tom Sugden]

The collection is just another old cliche that basically says other men are good for sex but women are meant to be married. Glad that noone watched that show and it didn't make the news when it's cancelled.

For Three Months at the end it's left ambiguous (but leaning on yes IMHO) on whether he's going to date his female best friend after the traumatic breakup with his ex.

And yes I haven't seen that Mario movie because I haven't heard about it until now lol. And I'm glad I haven't.

Btw the Last of Us episode 3 is great, we finally get our San Junipero, the floor is 8/10. Anyone grade it below that are either homophobes or live near Boston like Stephen King lol. After the disappointments we have in 2022 with Secrets of Dumbledore, Bros, QAF reboot, Lightyear, Strange World, Eternals etc we finally have a good one. The 2 kissing scenes at the piano and at the strawberry fields could be executed better but overall very very good if a bit rushed. But at least we get a wedding, something we don't get from Bros.

Last of Us was really beautiful. I wish I hadn't been surprised they went as far as they did in a bedroom scene, knowing the inevitable backlash.

I watched Three Months and I got the impression the girl was a lesbian, but seeing them in bed together in their underwear (not sure I've ever seen a gay man and a lesbian doing that) I have no idea what the full message was.

 

[2_fresh_2deathhh]

They are gonna be so pissed. The movie is directed by Ira Sachs and will be out at the Sundance film festival on the 23rd of January

It’s like the jokes write themselves. When people complain about media that brainwashes people with lies. The same lies the ex gay leaders even came out (lol) and said. The movie won’t cover is that he will be the faceless men on Grindr or become depressed due to being a resource sponge. Sexism and heterosexism at its lowest form.

 

[2_fresh_2deathhh]

I'm not pissed. One of the characters could be bisexual or pansexual. However, I'm going to laugh when this whole queer/sexual fluidity project blows up in you guys faces.

For someone from Nigeria, I would expect you to be a little bit more guarded when it comes to sexuality. One of the condemnations of the West is that it's sexually immoral or sexual degenerate.

People with homosexual inclinations have to the show the world that homosexuality isn't a choice. And that we're not sexual degenerates. You know respectability politics.




There was this one book about straight guy who fell in a gay guy in a teen novel. However the boundary for heterosexuality is more policed than it is for gayness.


I want to argue that the reason why gay people won their rights was that people can't be recruited into homosexuality. People with homosexual inclinations have nothing to offer the government. We don't help with the increase of the population. The majority of the world's religions are against of homosexual relations. What can people in same sex/gender relations offer to lavage for their rights? Say what you about heterosexuals, but they can batter for their rights by the mere fact that relations tend to bare children.

And yes, our rights as homosexuals are founded on the notions that homosexuality is immutable and congenital.

I like how you have could be and possibility of this when the marketing was clear as day in a lot of these movies and shows. Read what is written not what you want written.

 

[Smallteaplant]

It’s like the jokes write themselves. When people complain about media that brainwashes people with lies. The same lies the ex gay leaders even came out (lol) and said. The movie won’t cover is that he will be the faceless men on Grindr or become depressed due to being a resource sponge. Sexism and heterosexism at its lowest form.

Basically, it's a relationship between a bisexual and homosexual man. So the film isn't about sexual fluidity just a bisexual man who doesn't know what he wants.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/m...haw-adele-exarchopoulos-ira-sachs-1235306865/

 

[Tom Sugden]

Basically, it's a relationship between a bisexual and homosexual man. So the film isn't about sexual fluidity just a bisexual man who doesn't know what he wants.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/m...haw-adele-exarchopoulos-ira-sachs-1235306865/

He isn't even bi until the start of the film, many years after being with men, from what the reviews say, so I guess it's more about him being a narcissist. From what the reviews also say it doesn't seem like an especially positive message.

 

[Smallteaplant]

He isn't even bi until the start of the film, many years after being with men, from what the reviews say, so I guess it's more about him being a narcissist. From what the reviews also say it doesn't seem like an especially positive message.

Have you seen the movie?

 

[Tom Sugden]

Have you seen the movie?

Not yet, just the reviews, which give away most of it.

 

[nahrs]

About these movies, media, that show gay making willining having sex or relationships with women, I like to make some points:

* To most of the directors and writers, homossexuality is still some kind of shocking factor, they want to shock and surprise the audience with yet another twist: gotcha, you didnt expect the gay man to like pussy!
* Many characters don't even talk about their sexuality that much, I saw some movies that I really had to pay attention very hard to understand if they were totally gay or not, excluding the fact they at some point of the movie have relations with a woman.
* I heard that some gay characters even have scenes with sex with woman in some show because they want to show sex, but are afraid of showing gay sex.
* They want to pass the novelty idea that any lonely person would be willing to have sex with anyone, so, the gay guy would have sex with the woman, since she is willing and is another human being, I think most of them like the bullshit message of: love transcends everything.
* Even to bisexuals these movies look weird, in most of them, the desire to the other sex that is not of your partner becomes a situation of cheating.

if someone needs a list of some movies where gay man fucks or falling in love with woman, here it is:

-> Who killed sarah (gay is left by his husband, starts fucking their surrogate, not completly willinfully, but happens)
-> Amalgama (Amalgama (2020) - IMDb) (gay guy gets sad because of his cheating husband, logical result, fucks female friend) <- this one is one the trick ones, aparrently the supposed gay guy is married to a guy, but mentions relationships with woman at some point, maybe bisexual then?
-> Coming in (Coming In (2014) - IMDb)
-> People You May Know (guy comes out, get drunk, and have sex with ex girlfriend and she gets pregant)
-> Bob & Rose (a classic from the creator of queer as folk, gay guy gets tired of the gay scene, falling in love with woman)
-> The Kids Are All Right (movie about a lesbian couple that one of them starts fucking a man)

That are more of these movies, but I wont put them here.
My take on this is that gay became an umbrella term for more of life style:

-> you like men, you paint your nails and dances to lady gaga, but your cock would still get hard AF seeing her naked, yeah, still gay
-> You get hard for woman, but think they are annoyng and men are much more easier to get sex from, yeah, you can call yourself gay
-> you are effemenite, has gay voice, although you fuck all of your female friends, yeah, still gay

The only think that are in common in gay nowadays is the attraction to same sex, BUT, no exclusive attraction. If we would want to express gays that dont want to have sex with women, we would have to use: exclusive homosexual.