Interracial Relationships

[deleted464787]

I am actually fine with that implication.

Looks like I made a typo using the quote tags above.

Id also like to point out, that if youre ok with that implication, then the very statement "Black lives matter" is a racist statement, because it discriminates between "black" lives and other lives.

Im not entirely sure what can of worms youre opening up by having such a loose definition of discrimination.

 

[Nigel Atkinson]

Oh ok. In that case, no I don’t classify myself as black. I still classify myself as white.

I just acknowledge that it is an undeniable fact that we’re are all of African descent.... as in, all of our ancestors came out of africa.

I also acknowledge that although I am white, and there are are black, brown, Asian, Etc as well, we are all still very closely related, as we are ALL descendants of the same people that came out of Africa.

When we were initially discussing her. You asked what her ethnicity was. I said she was mixed. You responding with so were you. In the post I quoted today. You said you can differentiate between races. There’s a bit of contradiction in your answers there. What is Amandla then ?

 

[Nigel Atkinson]

Looks like I made a typo using the quote tags above.

Id also like to point out, that if youre ok with that implication, then the very statement "Black lives matter" is a racist statement, because it discriminates between "black" lives and other lives.

Im not entirely sure what can of worms youre opening up by having such a loose definition of discrimination.

How would that statement be racist if we go with your Implication ?

 

[deleted464787]

When we were initially discussing her. You asked what her ethnicity was. I said she was mixed. You responding with so were you. In the post I quoted today. You said you can differentiate between races. There’s a bit of contradiction in your answers there. What is Amandla then ?

no, I said you can MOSTLY differentiate between races. There are some people who are ambiguous, and “mixed” is a good umbrella term to describe them.

I also said that TECHNICALLY One could make an argument that every single person on earth is mixed, since everyone probably has a little bit of more than one genetic Background in them (myself included). But that is entirely semantics. Visually, there is nothing ambiguous about me. I am white, and I’m sure a majority of people would agree with that statement.

Amandla is widely regarded as black. She has identified herself as black in several interviews, the black community has generally accepted her as black, and even I agree that she fits a physical profile well enough To be classified as black.

Even though she has both white and black parents, few people would make any kind of argument AGAINST the Notion of her being black. I’m sure many WOULD argue against the notion of her being, say... Asian. Even you.

 

[deleted464787]

How would that statement be racist if we go with your Implication ?

not my implication... that’s fishsqueezees Implication. He used ( and even highlighted) definition of “discrimination” as being the same as “ differentiate“... in other words, “ The ability to tell the difference between.”

I was responding saying if he is going to use such a loose term of “discriminate” then the statement “Black Lives Matter” is racist because it is differentiating between “black” lives and lives that are not “black”.

by the way, according to his logic, you would be racist for differentiating that Amanda’s parents are white and black.

let me be very clear: I do not find the statement “Black Lives Matter“ to be a racist statement. I don’t necessarily 100% agree with their agenda, but that’s a different discussion altogether.

 

[deleted464787]

I am actually fine with that implication. In an ideal world, one would not discriminate at all even at the unconscious level. In fact, I think that is precisely the issue I have with the use of the word race. It totally grinds my gears.

As someone else said there is but one human race.

I agree... The problem, though, with the machinations of racism, is, that at least for the African Diaspora, Black stopped being simply a racist moniker and became a unifying beacon for peoples robbed of their culture, history, and their names. Whiteness is what it always was, a way for a status quo to place themselves in a spot of prominence, Blackness is what we had to collectively cling to from a foundation of deception, disenfranchisement, and displacement orchestrated by various Europeans that decided they were gang gang...

also, if you both agree with the implication that fish squeeze is advocating here, then you also need to agree that the statement “Black Lives Matter“ is a falsehood, and it should be amended to “all lives matter“ or at the very least, “human lives matter“ since we are all part of the human race, right?

what I find totally ironic is that the militant defenders of the BLM movement actually consider the statement “all lives matter“ to be racist.

So now, you both have to reconcile that one as well.

it is illogical for you to consider yourself a supporter of the Black Lives Matter movement (Which I’m sure you both do… I’d be very surprised if you weren’t), if you are going to subscribe to the statement that we are all “one race“ and that The colloquial use of races should be abolished.

 

[Nigel Atkinson]

no, I said you can MOSTLY differentiate between races. There are some people who are ambiguous, and “mixed” is a good umbrella term to describe them.

I also said that TECHNICALLY One could make an argument that every single person on earth is mixed, since everyone probably has a little bit of more than one genetic Background in them (myself included). But that is entirely semantics. Visually, there is nothing ambiguous about me. I am white, and I’m sure a majority of people would agree with that statement.

Amandla is widely regarded as black. She has identified herself as black in several interviews, the black community has generally accepted her as black, and even I agree that she fits a physical profile well enough To be classified as black.

Even though she has both white and black parents, few people would make any kind of argument AGAINST the Notion of her being black. I’m sure many WOULD argue against the notion of her being, say... Asian. Even you.

Amandla has identified as black, but she and others are considered such because of the one drop rule. Which isn’t 100% accurate of what they are. It’s a lot of people that would argue she isn’t black.

 

[deleted464787]

Amandla has identified as black, but she and others are considered such because of the one drop rule. Which isn’t 100% accurate of what they are. It’s a lot of people that would argue she isn’t black.

and that’s fine, if they want to argue that she’s not black, that is their prerogative.

What I find very interesting is that there are more people of ALL races who would be OK with the notion of her being black, but they wouldn’t be as complicit with the notion of her being white.

as far as the one drop rule, I know most of my ancestry, but not all of it. If I were to find out tomorrow that there was a black person somewhere deep in my ancestry, then I too would fit the one drop rule. But I still would not consider myself black, and I don’t think many people in the world would except the notion that I am black, even if they were privy to the fact that there was a black person in my ancestry.

there is no denying that me and Amandla look very different, and that she fits the physical profile for A black person more closely than I do.

so even the one drop rule isn’t so black and white ( come on, give me credit, this is a great pun). There are definitely grey areas.

take this guy for example: he is a white supremacist who was outed on national television for having black ancestry. He fits the one drop rule, but he is not black. He is white.

Still a pretty funny clip, LOL

 

[Nigel Atkinson]

also, if you both agree with the implication that fish squeeze is advocating here, then you also need to agree that the statement “Black Lives Matter“ is a falsehood, and it should be amended to “all lives matter“ or at the very least, “human lives matter“ since we are all part of the human race, right?

what I find totally ironic is that the militant defenders of the BLM movement actually consider the statement “all lives matter“ to be racist.

So now, you both have to reconcile that one as well.

it is illogical for you to consider yourself a supporter of the Black Lives Matter movement (Which I’m sure you both do… I’d be very surprised if you weren’t), if you are going to subscribe to the statement that we are all “one race“ and that The colloquial use of races should be abolished.

Black Lives Matter exist because of the horrible treatment that black people endure on a regular basis. Black Lives Matter doesn’t mean that only Black Lives Matter. It means that it should matter like everyone else’s. So it’s not contradictory for someone to hold the one race stance and believe in Black Lives Matter. It only means that they are acknowledging the injustice that a portion of the population faces and wants them to be treated fairly.

 

[Nigel Atkinson]

and that’s fine, if they want to argue that she’s not black, that is their prerogative.

What I find very interesting is that there are more people of ALL races who would be OK with the notion of her being black, but they wouldn’t be as complicit with the notion of her being white.

as far as the one drop rule, I know most of my ancestry, but not all of it. If I were to find out tomorrow that there was a black person somewhere deep in my ancestry, then I too would fit the one drop rule. But I still would not consider myself black, and I don’t think many people in the world would except the notion that I am black, even if they were privy to the fact that there was a black person in my ancestry.

there is no denying that me and Amandla look very different, and that she fits the physical profile for A black person more closely than I do.

so even the one drop rule isn’t so black and white ( come on, give me credit, this is a great pun). There are definitely grey areas.

take this guy for example: he is a white supremacist who was outed on national television for having black ancestry. He fits the one drop rule, but he is not black. He is white.

Still a pretty funny clip, LOL

People make that assumption because the judge race based on phenotype. Even though that isn’t accurate in the slightest. People probably would want to put Amanda in the black category, but the truth is she is also white. I actually have seen that clip of the white supremacist dude lol. His ignorance was judging his race based on his phenotype as well. That’s why he was so shocked to learn about his ancestry. He is technically black also.

 

[Fishsqueezee69]

also, if you both agree with the implication that fish squeeze is advocating here, then you also need to agree that the statement “Black Lives Matter“ is a falsehood, and it should be amended to “all lives matter“ or at the very least, “human lives matter“ since we are all part of the human race, right?

what I find totally ironic is that the militant defenders of the BLM movement actually consider the statement “all lives matter“ to be racist.

So now, you both have to reconcile that one as well.

it is illogical for you to consider yourself a supporter of the Black Lives Matter movement (Which I’m sure you both do… I’d be very surprised if you weren’t), if you are going to subscribe to the statement that we are all “one race“ and that The colloquial use of races should be abolished.

Blackness is not a race but a cultural identity.

I dont belong to a particular race. I am Hispanic. I self identify as Puertorrican. Thats my cultural identity.

As someone else pointed out, due to the mechanics of racism, the descendants of the former slaves from Africa have formed a separate cultural identity which was to some degree, imposed on them. These people now identify as Black. That is not a race. At least, I don't call it a race.

All lives matter is not exactly racist but the backlash against BLM is racist. I am not black and I am perfectly fine with the black lives matter movement because the statement Black Lives Matter implies "Black lives matter too". The statement "All lives matter" to me is not wrong in itself but it is polarizing.

You keep circling around the main issue. Given the standard definition of racism, isnt dating preference that is solely based on race, racist? Yes, we have clearly shown it is and that makes you want you take a tangent because it is an uncomfortable feeling.

 

[Fishsqueezee69]

I’ve been rejected for being white when the other person isn’t looking for someone white.

I know 100% what you’re talking about.

And I’m capable of saying “it’s ok, I’m not their type.”

You know I dont belive you and I am pretty certain I am not the only one who doesnt but I will just say ok, whatever.

 

[deleted464787]

Black Lives Matter exist because of the horrible treatment that black people endure on a regular basis. Black Lives Matter doesn’t mean that only Black Lives Matter. It means that it should matter like everyone else’s. So it’s not contradictory for someone to hold the one race stance and believe in Black Lives Matter. It only means that they are acknowledging the injustice that a portion of the population faces and wants them to be treated fairly.

I understand why Black Lives Matter was created.

You are saying “A portion of the population“ is being treated unfairly. What portion? Is this portion being chosen arbitrarily, or is there something in common with this portion That makes them discernibly different from the rest of the population?

Black lives are human lives. Right?

(Also, understand that all of these questions are in jest... I am only asking them under the worldview that we are all “one race”). To acknowledge that this portion of the population is different from the other portions of the population, is to be racist according to that worldview. That’s the point I’m getting at

 

[deleted464787]

You know I dont belive you and I am pretty certain I am not the only one who doesnt but I will just say ok, whatever.

I’m shocked that you don’t believe me. You make it sound as if white privilege is so ingrained into humanity that it is literally impossible for someone to turn down sex with someone else because they are white. Meanwhile, there are Literally people posting in this very forum who are not seeking sex from white people (And I 100% support their preference)

take a look at the adult websites section alone, and you’ll see hundreds of threads of people looking for porn that is specifically Something that is not white. (which, again, I fully support. If it gets you off and makes you happy, then you should seek it out)

To suggest that it couldn’t go both ways is completely ignorant.

 

[deleted464787]

You keep circling around the main issue. Given the standard definition of racism, isnt dating preference that is solely based on race, racist? Yes, we have clearly shown it is and that makes you want you take a tangent because it is an uncomfortable feeling.

under your worldview— The worldview where even the simple ability to differentiate one race from another is racist—Yes, it is racist.

Clearly, not everyone shares your personal worldview there—Myself included, as I think that is too broad of a definition of racism—So no, I do not personally believe it is racist.

It sounds like the crux of our disagreement here is that I think you paint racism with too broad of a brush, while you think I paint racism with too fine of a brush. Agreed?

Perhaps we should move our discussion more towards that then? I think that would be a very interesting discussion.

 

[deleted464787]

People make that assumption because the judge race based on phenotype. Even though that isn’t accurate in the slightest. People probably would want to put Amanda in the black category, but the truth is she is also white. I actually have seen that clip of the white supremacist dude lol. His ignorance was judging his race based on his phenotype as well. That’s why he was so shocked to learn about his ancestry. He is technically black also.

see, even you have to use the qualifier “technically” when referring to Him being black.

is he black, or is he white? Or is he both?

If you’re going to make the argument that he’s both, then you must concede that I am both, and you are both, and every single person on earth is both. And therefore, since we are ALL technically black people, To say “Black Lives Matter” is the same as saying “all lives matter”

do you see how confusing that makes everything?

Instead, let’s keep it cut and dry: The man in the video is white. I know this, and you know this ( if you’re being intellectually honest about it).

Race most certainly is correlated with phenotypes.

You are arguing the race is correlated with GENOTYPE. And I have to disagree with you there— and I believe most of the world would disagree with you as well. If I were to walk into a black neighborhood, and tell everyone there that I am a black person because I have some small percentage of African ancestry, A majority of them would probably laugh at such a notion.

 

[Nigel Atkinson]

I understand why Black Lives Matter was created.

You are saying “A portion of the population“ is being treated unfairly. What portion? Is this portion being chosen arbitrarily, or is there something in common with this portion That makes them discernibly different from the rest of the population?

Black lives are human lives. Right?

(Also, understand that all of these questions are in jest... I am only asking them under the worldview that we are all “one race”). To acknowledge that this portion of the population is different from the other portions of the population, is to be racist according to that worldview. That’s the point I’m getting at

The portion that are being treated differently because of the color of their skin. That’s the difference. This difference is being acknowledged because of that treatment. It still wouldn’t contradict the one race stance.

 

[deleted464787]

The portion that are being treated differently because of the color of their skin. That’s the difference. This difference is being acknowledged because of that treatment. It still wouldn’t contradict the one race stance.

Can you be a little more specific? What portion of the human race is being treated differently because of the color of their skin?

Hasn’t everyone been treated differently because of the color of their skin at some point or another?

when you say I have white privilege, as You have done in the past, are you not treating me differently and making a statements/assumptions about me solely based on the color of my skin, and not my genotype?


—————-

by the way, I’m not talking in circles because I believe everything I’m saying. I’m saying it to show how flawed your logic is. I have no problem with you trying to claim that I have white privilege... but you can’t say someone has white privilege, while simultaneously saying there are no races because we’re all the same, and only black people are treated differently. All those statements do not comport with each other

 

[deleted464787]

The portion that are being treated differently because of the color of their skin. That’s the difference. This difference is being acknowledged because of that treatment. It still wouldn’t contradict the one race stance.

also on that note, since you said that the white supremacist in the video above is “technically black” does this mean you don’t believe he has white privilege? I’m having trouble wrapping my head around how a black man can have white privilege.

If he does, what, other than his skin color, are you using to determine whether or not he has white privilege? Also, if he has white privilege, doesn’t that mean everyone on earth has white privilege, if they all have some small amount of white ancestry?

and if he doesn’t, doesn’t that mean no one on earth has white privilege, since we’re all “technically black?”

These are all questions that you will need to reconcile with your worldview if you are going to Subscribe to such a worldview.

Or you could just agree that there are white people, black people, Asian people, etc... and that acknowledging these differences doesn’t have to diminish anyone’s humanity in any way.

 

[Nigel Atkinson]

see, even you have to use the qualifier “technically” when referring to Him being black.

is he black, or is he white? Or is he both?

If you’re going to make the argument that he’s both, then you must concede that I am both, and you are both, and every single person on earth is both. And therefore, since we are ALL technically black people, To say “Black Lives Matter” is the same as saying “all lives matter”

do you see how confusing that makes everything?

Instead, let’s keep it cut and dry: The man in the video is white. I know this, and you know this ( if you’re being intellectually honest about it).

Race most certainly is correlated with phenotypes.

You are arguing the race is correlated with GENOTYPE. And I have to disagree with you there— and I believe most of the world would disagree with you as well. If I were to walk into a black neighborhood, and tell everyone there that I am a black person because I have some small percentage of African ancestry, A majority of them would probably laugh at such a notion.

I only used the world technically because you are ignoring his genetic makeup to classify him as white. When he’s actually both. Yes, his phenotype is that of a white man. But I would and do argue that isn’t 100% accurate. The problem with the logic you’re using in your counter argument stands on the notion that everyone is treated fairly. Which they aren’t. Phenotype and genetics are correlated with race, but humans only use phenotype when categorizing us all. That isn’t accurate or true.