SebScreen
- Thread starter xXSaintXx
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I feel you missed my points. To be more specific, I think (1) whether someone is gay-baiting should not depend on their sexual orientation, and (2) we shouldn't assume people's sexual orientation by watching their youtube videos.
First, about your previous posts, you first said he should apologize if "he is straight", and later switched to that he should apologize if "he is gay baiting". Maybe in your mind, these two conditions are equivalent, that if he is straight, then he must be gay baiting (and if he is gay, then he is not gay baiting), but as I mentioned in my previous post, I believe people of all sexual orientations can perform gay baiting. We can discuss further if you disagree.
Second, if you do agree that both straight and gay people can perform gay baiting, then pressuring him to disclose would not clear your suspension of his possible gay baiting. It's perfectly fine that you are curious about other people's sexual orientation, but please don't probe under the name of "honesty and integrity".
Third, by "are you sure it must be him misrepresenting his sexual orientation, not you having stereotypical/ignorant opinions about people's sexual orientations?", I'm questioning your confidence in deciding what behaviors can only be performed by gay people. Time has changed, and people have changed. Straight guys are allowed to show attraction towards other men , and they should not be ridiculed or simply being labelled as gays. For the behaviors you listed from him (talking about being "in love", dressing up for "dates" with him, wanting to marry him, etc.), I have seen all of them from openly gay people when they passionately talk about their female celebrities. Are they misrepresenting gay people? When talking about love, passion, and other positive emotions, instead of regulating how gay and straight people should be (distinctively) represented, why don't we allow all people to love all people (and to have frequent haircuts as you brought up in the end)?
Fourth, just because he shows more interest in men in his videos, doesn't necessarily mean he is not as interested in women. Possible reasons include: (1) he loves superhero movies and great female charterers are relatively rare in this genre; (2) he like fitness and it can be different for women; (3) when talking about "marrying" a female celebrity even as a joke, he's more likely to be seen as a creep, ... We need to remember that all we see are his youtube videos, which is a small part of his life.
The problem I see with your standpoint is that you only see the two possibilities: He's gay or he is gay-baiting in order to bait gay viewers. I neither think he is gay nor do I think he is gay-baiting, because the latter would imply ill intention in order to profit from it, which I don't see. He doesn't interact with any of his gay followers in *that* way (at least not in the last weeks/months) and is genuinely annoyed when the topic comes up.
You're right, I didn't fully understand your previous points, and apparently I'm not explaining myself very clearly, either.
In my mind, the terms "gaybaiting" and "queerbaiting" refer to when someone misrepresents a person or character as potentially gay (or otherwise non-hetero) for the purpose of attracting a gay audience. The misrepresentation is usually not explicit, but occurs through innuendo and subtext. If the person is in fact part of the LGBTQI+ community, then there's no misrepresentation, and thus no gaybaiting. See Urban Dictionary's definitions of the term. (I realize that Urban Dictionary isn't an authoritative source, but I think it represents the common understanding that gaybaiting is something done by straight people to the detriment of gay people.)
I didn't really switch from saying that Seb should apologize if he's straight to he should apologize if he's gay baiting, but I was making assumptions that you didn't understand. (For example, I was assuming that we had the same understanding of what the term "gaybaiting" means.) What I meant was, IF Seb is straight, THEN his behavior constitutes gaybaiting (based on my understanding of gaybaiting as explained above). Furthermore, based on my belief that gaybaiting is wrong, I said that IF Seb is gaybaiting he should stop doing it and he should apologize for doing it. In order to make such an apology, he would have to "come out" as straight, because gaybaiting is something only straight people can do.
In the interest of being open-minded, I suppose you can make the argument that anyone of any sexual orientation can bait their audience by being coy about their sexual orientation, without necessarily misrepresenting themselves. I hadn't thought of it that way. However, as I said above, I think the common understanding of the term is that it's something that straight people do to gay people. (I could be wrong.)
I agree with you that straight men can experience some degree of attraction towards other men and it's OK for them to express that attraction. However, that attraction is qualitatively different from the attraction that a gay man has towards other men. Straight guys do not fall in love with other men and do not want to date them or marry them or get dressed up for them. If you disagree then you and I have very different ideas about what the word "straight" means. I think the "passion" that some gay men show towards female celebrities is qualitatively different (and obviously so), so you're comparing apples to oranges. If you don't truly don't understand that, then I don't know how to explain it to you.
I stand by my opinion that Seb expresses both sexual and romantic attraction to other men that goes way beyond the kind of attraction a straight guy might feel towards another man. It is not unreasonable to conclude that he's not straight. You said, "Straight guys are allowed to show attraction towards other men, and they should not be ridiculed or simply being labelled as gays." It's homophobic to equate labeling someone as gay with ridiculing them.
Yes, there could be reasons why Seb doesn't show attraction to women in his videos, but the ones you offered are a bit of a stretch. There are many gorgeous women in the MCU and the straight guys who review and react to MCU movies expresse their interest in and attraction to these women all the damn time. As far as I've noticed, Seb has never once commented on any of them. (He did shed tears for Black Widow, but he was surprised by his own reaction. As I recall, he said something like "I didn't know I cared.")
The more likely explanation for his reactions to men is the simplest and most obvious one: He's gay (or bi or homoromantic or otherwise non-hetero). The most likely alternative is that he's gaybaiting and he knows that if he expresses any equivalent interest in women at this point that it will spoil the illusion he's worked so hard to create and will damage his image in the minds of his viewers. Other explanations are possible, but not very plausible.
You are correct, that is my standpoint. If you can convince me that he's not gay, you'll then have to convince me that he's not a gaybaiter. Gaybaiting is problematic, regardless of the baiter's intentions. It's often done in ignorance or out of a misguided attempt at being inclusive. It such situations, it's not OK, but it's forgivable if corrective action is taken.
There are many possible reasons why Seb might get annoyed when the topic comes up. Maybe he is gaybaiting and he doesn't like being called out on it. Or maybe he's not straight but isn't ready to admit it, or has a complicated sexuality he doesn't want to explain. In any case, as long as he continues to give people reason to believe that he might be gay without ever confirming or denying it, the accusations will likely continue and he's going to have to deal with that. That's one of the consequences of being coy about one's sexuality.
Okay, let me come from another angle: What specific action has Seb done that might be considerable as gaybaiting and what exact harm comes from that exact action (assuming it would turn out he's straight)? I think we all agree gaybaiting is wrong - but I think there has to be ill intention behind it, which I don't see at Seb's part. So I need more of an explanation than "he shows interest in male bodies as a potentially straight guy so he owes as an apology". What's his specific (potential) wrong-doing?
Sorry I kept you waiting for a response. I started writing last night, but I fell asleep.
To be clear, I don't think Seb is gaybaiting, at least I hope he isn't. I'm still leaning towards the view that Seb is a member of the LGBTQ+ community even if he's not ready to talk about it yet. However, if Seb is actually straight, then I think his behavior constitutes gaybaiting.
Here's a comedy skit of two gay guys debating whether an "influencer" is a gaybaiter. Seb hasn't done anything as extreme as the "influencers" in this video, but the point they're making with this video still applies.
Queerbaiting is "like the cinematic equivalent of edging without the money shot."
A lot of people in Seb's audience already believe him to be gay. Some of his newer viewers probably think that right off the bat. They see his show and they see him gushing about Chris Evans and commenting on all the handsome guys and making innuendoes about gay sex and romance and some of them think, "Oh, cool, he's gay." They keep watching and they come back for more. (Other people may have a negative reaction, turn him off, and never come back.)
Keep in mind that people have a very real emotional and psychological need to see themselves represented in media. including YouTube. Although LGBTQ+ representation is greater than it's ever been before, it's still lacking in many areas. For example, the MCU and Star Wars universes are mostly lacking in representation. So when LBGTQ+ people who are fans of sci-fi, fantasy, super-heroes, etc. come across Seb's channel and recognize him as a kindred spirit, they're going to stick around and keep watching (unless and until they decide he's annoying, boring, unfunny, or whatever.)
Now, how do you think they're going to feel if and when they find out that Seb is straight and was just baiting them? They're going to be hurt and disappointed and think that he's an asshole for leading them on. And they would be right to feel that way. People don't like being toyed with.
I caught Seb's live stream the other day--not the birthday stream, but the one after that. Towards the end of the stream he checked the ages of the people viewing the stream. He was pleased to see that most were in his age range, but a significant chunk of his viewers are teenagers. Some of those kids are LGBTQ+ and some of them are still in the process of coming to terms with their sexuality,
So, imagine you’re a gay teen boy. You’re not out to your friends or family—or even yourself, really. Now imagine you discover a YouTuber who reacts to your favorite blockbuster movies, like the MCU films. And not only that, but he notices something in those movies that you've noticed, too, but no other guys seem to be talking about. He notices all the shirtless scenes. He notices pecs, and abs, and biceps. When a good-looking guy is onscreen, his eyes get bigger and his focus becomes more intense and he can't stop smiling. It's as if these moments bring him joy. Finally! Someone like you! But in one important way this guy is not like you, because he freely and publicly expresses his attraction to men, without any signs of fear or guilt or shame, and he doesn't hold back! You're not there yet, but he gives you hope that someday you'll be that comfortable with yourself and won't be afraid to express yourself and show your feelings.
It also doesn't hurt that this YouTuber you've discovered is young and handsome, and maybe you even develop a bit of a crush on him, so you keep watching his channel. As time goes on his attraction to guys gets more and more blatant, but he ends up focusing on one guy in particular. He starts talking about his videos as "dates" with this guy and he dresses up for his dates. He starts talking about being in love. It's all a bit of a joke, of course, because it's just a crush on a celebrity, but it's totally relatable and it seems to be based on genuine feelings.
Now imagine that you found out that this guy is straight and it was all just an act. You feel hurt and confused. You wonder why, why would he do that? It's so hard to be gay in this world, why would someone pretend to be gay when they're not? Why would they take that risk? He says he was just joking, just trying to be funny. You don't think it's funny. I mean, WTF? Does he think that gay relationships are a joke? Does he think that a man being attracted to another man is "funny"? You feel like you're being mocked.
"This laughter at the assumption that someone might be in a relationship with someone of the same gender means that you are also laughing at the viewers, that you're laughing at the people trying to find representation of themselves within the media."
Imagine you find out that this YouTuber was just baiting his LGBTQ+ viewers and their allies for views and likes. You feel used. You feel gullible and stupid for falling for his scam. If you were one of his Patrons or had otherwise donated money to him, you may also feel like you've been robbed. You wonder how many other times this has happened, how often have YouTubers and social media "influencers" have manipulated your emotions for their own personal benefit. You may begin to feel like you can't trust people, especially anyone who seemingly presents themselves as part of the LGBTQ+ community. Are they trying to get something out of you? Or are they just trying to trick you, to play a joke on you? Do they think that messing with your emotions is funny?
The quote below is about queerbaiting in movies and TV, but it can be applied to social media as well.
"Queerbaiting also often involves a lot of jokes about people of the same sex finding each other attractive.... While [this] may seem relatively harmless on the surface, this type of half-baked representation can be both painful and frustrating to a community of viewers who rarely see positive or accurate LGBTQ+ storylines on screen and have been burned and hurt by the feeling that they were led on for long periods of time by shows that simultaneously profited off a community that Hollywood long ostracized and degraded."
However, this video also points out that we should be very careful about accusing real life people of queerbaiting.
"If we want to normalize anything other than a straight, cis experience then we need to allow people the freedom to explore that option, personally and artistically, without immediately being expected to define themselves.... It's crucial that individuals...are free to explore their self-expression openly, without judgment, and are afforded space for playfulness, ambiguity, and discovery in their personal expressions. In trying to create structured rules on what is and isn't queer we actually reinforce a dangerous gender- or sexuality-based binary. This kind of gatekeeping might discourage individuals from trying to discover themselves, thus actually becoming a new form of repression."
Know it's big. His hands are pretty big
austinrydell
Legendary Member
He keeps referring to himself as a “short king” on insta. For some reason I thought he was kinda tall lol
I saw this! I then watched one of his Harry Potter reactions where he said he's actually 6 foot 4!
In his live stream last week, he kept saying that he was 5'3", but it was pretty clear that he was joking. I don't know how tall he is, but he gives off the impression that he's tall. (Having said that, I've seen guys in TV and movies who give off the impression of being tall only to find out that they're not, and guys who seem short or average height only to find out that they're actually quite tall. For example, for those of you who know Bel Ami models from the 1990s, who do you think it taller, Lukas Ridgeston or Johan Paulik?)
I don’t find that SebScree is queerbating at all.
If he is doing it, then everything people do can be labaled as that, and I disagree.
He has never said he is gay, or even imply it, as far I as understand.
He likes Chris Evans? He finds him attractive and has a crush on him (sort of)? That is not queerbaiting.
As a gay man I can say I have a crush on Anne Hathaway or Nicole Kidman because I admire them a lot. Am I straight? Of course not!
It is true that he knows and uses some “gay expressions”. For example, he once said “power bottom” in Love, Victor 2 Ep7 reaction. But a friend of mine also uses that expression precisely because I showed it to him.
And if he doesn’t feel uncomfortable watching gay series or movies, good for him!
It seems that if a straight gay doesn’t want to be labeled as a queerbaiter, he must behave and act as a “straight man” should. If we agree on that, then consciously or unconsciously we are reinforcing gender roles.
If he is doing it, then everything people do can be labaled as that, and I disagree.
He has never said he is gay, or even imply it, as far I as understand.
He likes Chris Evans? He finds him attractive and has a crush on him (sort of)? That is not queerbaiting.
As a gay man I can say I have a crush on Anne Hathaway or Nicole Kidman because I admire them a lot. Am I straight? Of course not!
It is true that he knows and uses some “gay expressions”. For example, he once said “power bottom” in Love, Victor 2 Ep7 reaction. But a friend of mine also uses that expression precisely because I showed it to him.
And if he doesn’t feel uncomfortable watching gay series or movies, good for him!
It seems that if a straight gay doesn’t want to be labeled as a queerbaiter, he must behave and act as a “straight man” should. If we agree on that, then consciously or unconsciously we are reinforcing gender roles.
Yeah, he learnt terms like "power bottom" or "bussy" in early streams from other guys, he had no clue what they were. Also "short king" comes from earlier streams because he would never show his full body and guys teased him calling him short which his ego wouldn't allow so he stood up.
Don’t think he’s queer baiting but he must know that a significant # of his followers do so because he’s hot, not because they want to see his lame movie reactions. If you’re not doing anything of talent on YouTube most people are watching you because they find you hot. And sorry but that’s like 99% of “reactors”.
If he is straight and is seriously only pretending to be attracted to Chris because he knows he has gay fans, y’all realize how insulting that is, right? He would basically be making his gay fans think they have a chance with him, only to be like “Nahhh you actually thought that? Hah, how stupid are you?”
A chance with him? You do realize that you don't live next door to him, right? Why is this argument still going? Lol
Then it's still those people's fault to project a sexuality onto him that he's never labeled himself as. I'm gay and I can find other men sexually and personally attractive regardless whether they are gay or not. Never in a million years would I be offended if they labeled themselves wrong or didn't label themselves at all if there is no ill-intention behind it. If people only follow Seb because they think they have a shot with him THEY are at fault, because he is not selling sexual content, himself or any of that sort. And never in a million years would I think I have a shot with someone who doesn't even know you and be offended if it turns out otherwise. One has to be kinda self-absorbed to think everyone has to cater to their own sexual needs and feelings.
we got guns in the last video
