Do Bisexual men actually settle down with men?

[Urien]

My personal hypothesis is that majority of bisexual men are heteromantic so by definition they only date women and big amount is biromantic but decide to choose women for obvious reasons.

I agree with this, but I am in the camp that thinks this is mostly conditioning. Most people have never seen homosexual relationships being portrayed positively or loving or relationships that have a future even.

I think Heartbreakers season 1 which came out a couple of years ago is the first time I saw one that was mostly free from all the homophobia, negativity and fear mongering.

People can't desire something that they have never known to be desirable, let alone know that it exists.

 

[Mushrhoom]

There is no instead.
I'd date all 3 of them.
I'm polyamorous.
This isn't about me - I made this thread for all of you.

First-off, "bi" is a broad catch-all term.
Me: I've been married, and been in three multi-year gay relationships.
Be careful about generalizing

 

[DelrayKevin]

Oh boy. Well this topic finally got me to crawl out of the shadows...

At the end of the day, this seemingly simple question is a ball of competing issues and stereo types. As a result, it's not going to have a simple, pat answer.

To start with, I'm a man who is sexually attracted to both men and women. I have had sex with both men and women, on a few rare occasions that includes both men AND women at the same time. In the spirit of full disclosure, I never have what I'd call a long term relationship with a woman. I have been in several multi-year relationships with other men.

However, please note, I'm not labeling myself "bi" or anything else except as "sexual". That is literally my response if someone asks me for my orientation: "sexual", or if I'm feeling snarky "yes, please". The reason for that is labels are part of the problem here. I learned that a long time ago when I was figuring out my own sexuality.

• Men who identified as "gay" would get on my case if I called myself "bi". They insisted that as I had attraction to men, I could only be "gay like them" and I was just afraid of, or hiding from my true identity when I called myself "bi". They couldn't fathom that someone who was sexually attracted to men could also be sexually attracted to women.
• Men who identified as "straight" would get on my case if I called myself "bi". They insisted that I just needed to "grow up" and quit playing around like a boy. I just needed to meet the right women and settle down, maybe have a kid or two. They couldn't fathom that someone sexually attracted to women could see anything sexual in another man.

Neither group understood the simple truth of the Kinsey scale. Human sexuality is a continuous spectrum, not a few fixed points. Where a given man falls on that spectrum may have an impact on whether or not he's going to tend to form relationships with a partner of a particular gender or if he's just having recreational sex with them.

Then come the questions of emotional intimacy. I strongly suspect that this also a continuous spectrum, we just don't have a name (that I'm aware of) for it. We all have the ability to form emotional bonds with both men and women, but we may lean one way or the other to greater or lesser extents. Again, this is going to vary from man to man. On top of that is the issue that emotional intimacy and physical intimacy are always comfortable bedfellows.

There is an old saw about this that I don't exactly remember, but it goes something like "you can't marry the person you want to sleep with, and you don't want to sleep with the person you want to marry". The idea being that we are frequently sexually drawn to sexual partners who are risqué, promiscuous, kinky or what-ever, but social norms also preclude those people are appropriate partners for a LTR. On the other hand partners who are socially acceptable for LTR's frequently get treated like delicate china figurines, handled carefully and great delicacy, and never exposed to things like our raw sexuality for fear of exposing ourselves as some sort of sexual deviant, or of alienating them because we're too crude, or both.

So not only is the scale of emotional intimacy/bonding a variable, but it's variability is also compounded by other inhibitions and quirks about sex, sexuality, and their interaction with emotional intimacy.

On top of all of that you add the scorn of the jilted partner. I don't care who you are, of what your sexuality is, it just sucks to get dumped. As a matter of human response, we always try and make it about something other than the simple facts: "he dumped me because he was just using me" instead of "we weren't a good match", or even the realization that it really was recreational for both of parties, it's just that one wasn't ready for end quite yet.

That all adds up to "no simple" answers. I have known women who feel that all "bi" guys are just using them for a quick thrill and are really gay (but too afraid to admit it.) I have known gay men who feel that all "bi" guys are just playing around and are really straight, but they need sex now, and couldn't find a woman to do it with. And I have known other bi men who have ultimately formed long term relationships, some with men, some with women.

There isn't a pattern or a smoking gun. There is no single truth. All of those things are true in some cases, they are false in others. And then there're all the other possibilities in between that don't lend themselves to easy descriptions. This is also a spectrum. It's continuous from end to end, each individual situation will fall somewhere on that spectrum. At the end of the day, with enough samples, I'd expect the distribution across that spectrum to even. No lumps, no spikes, no nothing, just flat and boring.

<Stepping off the soap box>

 

[GeorgiaMan]

When I first heard people say they were bisexual, I honestly thought it was just a way to ease into admitting they are gay.

Years back I had a few rendezevous with a guy who had been married to a woman but divorced her and spent the next four years or so just sleeping with guys only. He said he was bi and again, I figured he just was trying to come to terms with being gay so I didn't push the issue. However, he seemed to disappear and years later saw him on instagram with a wife and kids. I've wondered before if he considers himself bi now or if he's still sleeping with men on the side but they moved away from ATL and I've never had contact with him since.

Sexuality is complicated and not a one size, fits all umbrella. I suspect if you ask 100 men you'd get 95 different answers.

 

[JJJason27]

When I first heard people say they were bisexual, I honestly thought it was just a way to ease into admitting they are gay.

Years back I had a few rendezevous with a guy who had been married to a woman but divorced her and spent the next four years or so just sleeping with guys only. He said he was bi and again, I figured he just was trying to come to terms with being gay so I didn't push the issue. However, he seemed to disappear and years later saw him on instagram with a wife and kids. I've wondered before if he considers himself bi now or if he's still sleeping with men on the side but they moved away from ATL and I've never had contact with him since.

Sexuality is complicated and not a one size, fits all umbrella. I suspect if you ask 100 men you'd get 95 different answers.

When one of my friends came out he was adamant that he was really bi, even though he'd been in long-time relationships with only guys and had only ever had sex with guys. About a month after his coming out he was flirting with some dude at a bar and I jokingly asked him, "Why not go for a woman this time? Weren't you bi?" and he was like, "Lol no."

I feel like many gay men come out as bi to kind of soften the blow, so to speak, and then when they get more comfortable being fully out they admit they're really just gay.

 

[plow]

Another thing, can you please not use the phrase "homosexual males"? It is not a value neutral phrase. It sounds really medicalising and pathologising (and there is a long history of that), "gay men" is way less loaded. The only time I see "homosexual" is when I glance at the screen at a sexual health check up.

Thank you for noting my use of "homosexual". I used "heterosexual females" and "homosexual males" in order to clearly show the following. Those number games are due to the minority status of homosexuality compared to heterosexuality. That is independent from gender. The exact same reasoning applies when swapping genders.

Thus, I chose "homosexual" instead of "gay" because I believe that the swap between "homosexual males" and "homosexual females" is more neutral regarding the reasoning I exposed, compared to the swap between "gay males" and "gay females" (?). English is not my first language though.

 

[GeorgiaMan]

I feel like many gay men come out as bi to kind of soften the blow, so to speak, and then when they get more comfortable being fully out they admit they're really just gay.

Agreed and that’s kind of what I was alluding to in my post. I’m sure there are plenty who are attracted to both genders but I don’t see many men who after being with men for a period wind up back with women.

 

[averagewhiteboy6]

I agree with this, but I am in the camp that thinks this is mostly conditioning. Most people have never seen homosexual relationships being portrayed positively or loving or relationships that have a future even.

I think Heartbreakers season 1 which came out a couple of years ago is the first time I saw one that was mostly free from all the homophobia, negativity and fear mongering.

People can't desire something that they have never known to be desirable, let alone know that it exists.

I’m sure there are bi men who fall into this category but that’s simply not the case for all of us. I just never felt romantic in any way whatsoever towards men. As a matter of fact, the homosexual aspect of my fantasies isn’t really even about MEN… it’s about DICKS… yes, it’s a package deal (see what I did there ‍) (unless you wanna get into shemales or I don’t even know what the PC term is anymore but you know what I’m saying… and that’s just not where I’m at) but I I almost never focus on if I even notice a man’s face or body because I’m just there for the dick… I have a gay fuck buddy and he knows I’m bi and we barely talk. For real. One of us will text the other and ask if we’re free anytime soon. Well make arrangements and when I show up I just text him that I’m there and he will come and open the door and I go in and it’s just “hey how’s it going?” .. “not bad. I can’t complain too much. How are you?” … “I’m good”…. “Good deal” .. while we’re undressing.. then we get on the bed and get down to business. And when I leave he walks me to the door and it’s “alright man take care. Hit me up soon”… “I will definitely be in touch..”….. I will say that when we first started I was a little inhibited and trying to find my comfort level… for example kissing was odd to me so that took a while but now I love kissing while I’m getting fucked…. But that’s still physical and way more of a primal lust if I had to even classify it as any sort of emotion at all, certainly not love… my point being that I’m just a booty call to him too. We’re not all “conditioned to be afraid of society and/or social norms” … some of us have just realized that we enjoy sexual contact with men as well as women and it’s as simple as that.

I would definitely suggest to gay men to not expect much from bi men when it comes to commitment. Some will and some won’t. There are comments on this thread made by bi men who have settled with a man and gay men who are married to a bi dude but to have expectations i believe is taking a big chance and if i were gay i would more than likely stick to gay men as far as prospective partners or relationships.

So take it however you want it but that’s just me and my thoughts and experience. I can’t speak for everyone.

 

[HemmingwayI]

Most of the men that I have had experience with who have identified as bi-sexual eventually seem to have lost their sexual interest in women, leading me to conclude that bi-sexuality in most men might just be a transitional phase from heterosexuality to homosexuality.

 

[Urien]

Most of the men that I have had experience with who have identified as bi-sexual eventually seem to have lost their sexual interest in women, leading me to conclude that bi-sexuality in most men might just be a transitional phase from heterosexuality to homosexuality.

It's a spectrum. It's greatly influenced by experience and conditioning more than people are willing to admit. If you throw a gay man in a prison system full of heterosexual women, in time he will have sex with them.

The reverse is obviously already known to be true for straight men in prisons. It's called situational homosexuality. Some of these inmates become attached to men for the rest of their life even after they leave, and some go back to being straight or closer to the center.

It's all to a greater extent transitional IMO. It's not static or fixed, certainly not for most people. Most people wait for it to happen to them to see if it's fluid or static. But you can do it to yourself (have sex with women) to see if you change over time (and yes it takes time). The catch is it has be organic and pleasurable. So if you "force" yourself to do it, your mind will know and reject it. You won't acquire the taste for it and you will associate bad things with the experience.

You could be "mostly gay in your 20s" then become more bi in your 30s, then become mostly straight in your 40s, then become more bi again in your 50s. You could lose the taste for everything and become asexual.

For reasons, I don't want to get into. Most people will never admit this be true or want to be completely honest about it because of the implications of what it means if it were true.

 

[Urien]

<Stepping off the soap box>

I feel seen. Get back on, I love you! xD

 

[glassoo]

Ditto

 

[mintaraga]

bi men here, married to men for almost 10 years. together for 13 years. hes 4 years older.
date and sex with several girls in school. then i met him at my senior years.
the desired to have sex with women always exist, but wont trade my happy marriage for women.
str8 porn once in a while is enough for me, and hes fine with it.
also swing partner a woman and his bi husband around our age from neighbour state, so we only meet few times a year due to her crazy work schedule, the husband comes more often, and shes fine with it.
it takes quite long and deep talk at the beginning. i was the one resisting the idea because i didnt want to jeopardize our marriage.

ppl always say that men a sexual beast, they are more prone to infidelity. and being a bi/pan kind of make the chance even bigger since they have even wider option/preference. but thats not true, infidelity depend on personality, not your sexual preference.
infidelity its not like 1+1 = 2
there are many factor (circumstances, alcohol, mutual sexual attraction, etc) but most importantly cheating is a choice not mistakes.

met two bi men couple married for 25 years, and still strong on monogamous relationship. they content with str8 porn and roleplay only.

 

[JustPullOut]

There are no surveys that would focus on men but amount of bisexuals who date opposite gender is around 84-88% while 9-12% are in same sex relationship (one study included people who are not relationship). I remember another survey about sexual preferences where 40% prefer opposite gender sexually and 43% are equally attracted to both genders.

My personal hypothesis is that majority of bisexual men are heteromantic so by definition they only date women and big amount is biromantic but decide to choose women for obvious reasons.
And this minority that is homoromantic or biromantic and chose man is gay leaning in terms of sex most of the time anyway.

Studies above were only done on openely bisexual men/women; if we are about to include closeted bisexuals or those who id as str8 even tho they are not 100% str8 those numbers will only increase as obviously 100% of those men will date women only.

For those reasons I always felt that most of bi men are much closer in terms of sexuality and other things to straight men than to gay men.

That would explain why majority of bi guys even if they admit to themselves they are bi don't perceive themselves as part of LGBT. Or wouldn't describe themselves as queer because today a lot of people when hearing "queer" they think about drag queens, or non-binary they/them blue hair vegans.

For this reason I feel weird seeing gay/bi rather than bi/straight...

 

[DelrayKevin]

This thread has really made me reflect on my own journey through my sexuality and my, ongoing, relationship with the LGBTQ+ community.

One of the more recent touch stones in that journey was a study published by the San Francisco Human Rights Commission (Google them if you're not familiar with them, but long story short, they're part of the government of the City and County of San Francisco, CA.) The study to which I'm referring has basically two conclusions:

• People who identify as bisexual make up the largest segment within the LGBTQ+ community in the United States.
• Bisexual people may experience invisibility, isolation, and discrimination, even within the confines of the LGBTQ+ community.

It then goes on to give a few tips and tricks for being more inclusive of bisexual people:

• Use the terms that bisexual people use to describe their identity and relationships
• Avoid using language that erases the experiences of bisexual people. For example, "gay" is not a catch-all term for the LGBTQ+ community.
• Be aware of negative language and behavior towards bisexual people. Challenge that negativity when it is safe to do so.
• When researching bisexual people, or advocating for them, bring them to center rather than pushing them to the margins attempting to merge them with other groups or communities.

I will say again, I don't identify as bisexual, but rather personally prefer simply "sexual". I will add that I have experienced first hand invisibility and isolation within the greater LGBTQ+ far more often than I've experienced inclusion and acceptance. However, I have found that inclusion and acceptance here and there, and when I do find it it's wonderful.

However, I think that's probably true of many people in the LGBTQ+ community, and is an extension of whole notion of "family by choice". Just because a person identifies as being a member of one of the groups that are on the LBGTQ+ spectrum doesn't mean that said person is going to have anything in common with other members of the same community, except for the use the label identifying the community in which they identify.

As a younger man, I used to quip that "you could put 1,000 random gay men in a room and the only thing that they'd all have in common was being gay". That quip had a number of layers to it:

• I included myself in that group of gay men. At the time, I was afraid to tell my gay friends that sometimes I liked to have sex with women. I saw how they treated men who shared that about themselves, and I figured it was better to have some friends, even if it meant that I also had to have a "dirty little secret".
• The simple truth of those words has come back to me over and over throughout my life. Just because a large group of people share a label doesn't mean that they even have to agree with what that label actually means. It simply means that they all chose the same word to reflect their identity, it doesn't mean that the members of the group can be easily cast into sub-groups or have broad statements made about them.
• This is even more acutely true when it comes to topics such as sexuality and sexual express that are so personal/individual as to make them hard to categorize by themselves let alone applicable to a large group.

I get it, those can be hard concepts. Humans like to belong to groups/tribes that have common cause. That's our nature, it's part of what brought us to the top of the hierarchy on this planet. However, people have to be able to choose their own tribes and be able to express themselves as individuals within their chosen tribe. Taking "common cause" to the extreme of making everyone in the tribe "the same" is usually where the fractures start.

 

[Urien]

As a younger man, I used to quip that "you could put 1,000 random gay men in a room and the only thing that they'd all have in common was being gay".

This is one of the main arguments I have against the idea of a "gay community". When you factor in all the other letters, some of which REALLY have nothing to do with us, it becomes a bit of a clusterfuck.

I think it muddies the water and pushes groupthink on to people even when trying to have an objective discussion about real topics (like minors getting puberty blockers or the meaning/purpose of pride in 2024).

Also who is our "leader"? When you read in the newspaper something about the LGBTQ community this or that like it is a monolith when it never was. This is a grave mistake IMO. Like you said, pushing people to have to be the same is dangerous and ironically the very thing that triggered the birth of the movement. Now if you say you're gay and you don't believe Queer Theory is a scientific reality you're met with a lynch mob. Feels more like religion everyday. So I stay away when I can.

The gay friends I have in my life, remained in my life because the common denominator was not being gay. In fact it is the least interesting part of our friendships.

In a way, I like this about bisexuals. They can enter and leave the "community" as they please because they are not central (and many gays don't even believe bisexuality is real). I can relate to their not wanting to be associated with the LGBTQIAA+ label(s) anymore. Especially now that it's less community and more a political movement/lobby, or even a tentacle of a bigger movement/political party.

I feel more normal with bisexual men exactly because they are not part of the community. To them bisexuality is a sexual act, not an identity. As I got older and more experienced with my sexuality, I began to see that homosexuality is a sexual or romantic act or set of actions. It doesn't define me and it is wrong to make your life revolve around it like the be all end all. However, I realize that our enemies want to reduce us to this one thing.

 

[bigboaster]

This is one of the main arguments I have against the idea of a "gay community". When you factor in all the other letters, some of which REALLY have nothing to do with us, it becomes a bit of a clusterfuck.

I think it muddies the water and pushes groupthink on to people even when trying to have an objective discussion about real topics (like minors getting puberty blockers or the meaning/purpose of pride in 2024).

Also who is our "leader"? When you read in the newspaper something about the LGBTQ community this or that like it is a monolith when it never was. This is a grave mistake IMO. Like you said, pushing people to have to be the same is dangerous and ironically the very thing that triggered the birth of the movement. Now if you say you're gay and you don't believe Queer Theory is a scientific reality you're met with a lynch mob. Feels more like religion everyday. So I stay away when I can.

The gay friends I have in my life, remained in my life because the common denominator was not being gay. In fact it is the least interesting part of our friendships.

In a way, I like this about bisexuals. They can enter and leave the "community" as they please because they are not central (and many gays don't even believe bisexuality is real). I can relate to their not wanting to be associated with the LGBTQIAA+ label(s) anymore. Especially now that it's less community and more a political movement/lobby, or even a tentacle of a bigger movement/political party.

I feel more normal with bisexual men exactly because they are not part of the community. To them bisexuality is a sexual act, not an identity. As I got older and more experienced with my sexuality, I began to see that homosexuality is a sexual or romantic act or set of actions. It doesn't define me and it is wrong to make your life revolve around it like the be all end all. However, I realize that our enemies want to reduce us to this one thing.

This is what I have noticed in my anecdotal experiences as well. Bisexuals (bisexual males more specifically) by and large don't care to align themselves with the "lgbt community" or the "queer community". And the ones that do are typically very queer presenting anyway or lean towards same sex attraction more.

The more "discreet" flavor of bisexuals or the ones who lean more towards women and "pass" as straight. They don't consider their attraction to men a core part of their identity the way many gay men do. It is just... A thing about them. In some cases it's just an itch thye scratch every so often.

But many of them don't want to be associated with "ideology" or "queer politics" by default.

It's why I find it funny how the statistics of bisexuals in terms of polling and surveys are likely a heavy undercounting, when you factor in those bisexual guys don't like to actually label themselves that way for personal reasons, even though they enjoy having sex with men. Interesting stuff.

 

[DelrayKevin]

This is what I have noticed in my anecdotal experiences as well. Bisexuals (bisexual males more specifically) by and large don't care to align themselves with the "lgbt community" or the "queer community". And the ones that do are typically very queer presenting anyway or lean towards same sex attraction more.

The more "discreet" flavor of bisexuals or the ones who lean more towards women and "pass" as straight. They don't consider their attraction to men a core part of their identity the way many gay men do. It is just... A thing about them. In some cases it's just an itch thye scratch every so often.

But many of them don't want to be associated with "ideology" or "queer politics" by default.

It's why I find it funny how the statistics of bisexuals in terms of polling and surveys are likely a heavy undercounting, when you factor in those bisexual guys don't like to actually label themselves that way for personal reasons, even though they enjoy having sex with men. Interesting stuff.

This is likely true for some subset of the "community", however I think that for at least an equal number of people they're indifferent to the "politics", but avoid the greater LGBTQ+ community because they've been actively shunned by it. I don't believe that inclusion in either sub-group has anything to do with their position the Kinsey scale, but rather has to do with their experiences interacting with the greater community as a whole.

It is the 21st century. I'm not sure anyone is trying to "pass" as anything at this point. Anyone who has come to grips with their same-gender attraction is unlikely to be interested in passing as heterosexual unless they live in a highly repressed environment or a place that still has active laws against same-gender sexual contact (sadly there are more than a few of those still present in the world.) However, for those fortunate enough to live a place where their sexuality won't land them in jail, or worse, "passing" is less of a thing, again with emphasis on those who have come to grips with their sexuality, if you start introducing those who are still figuring themselves out, this all goes out the window.

From my experience, any of us who have come to understand that our sexuality is fluid as opposed being easily pigeonholed, have reached that point of understanding where our sexuality is just another aspect of ourselves, but not something that defines us. This is the key thing. We view our sexuality as an attribute, like the color of our hair or our eyes, not as something that defines us as people.

I don't know about you, but I experienced what it was like to have my sexuality define me in the phase of my life when I tried to identify as gay (with a dirty little secret). It was all very easy, I could define myself a particular way, and be accepted by large numbers of people. I had the good fortune to have been born in one of the cities that is internationally associated with the gay community, so there was lots of acceptance around should I care to wear that particular hat (as a metaphor for identifying that way.)

It was OK for while. I was safe. I was accepted. And then that itch started again, and all of a sudden I wasn't "good" with anyone. I could "pass" as either gay or straight, but I wasn't either, so what was the good? (If I wanted to be accepted in either community, I would need to "pass", because neither community was found of people who didn't fit inside of their mold.)

 

[therebrand]

First-off, "bi" is a broad catch-all term.
Me: I've been married, and been in three multi-year gay relationships.
Be careful about generalizing

You clearly don't realize what you're responding to is someone else's (who didn't know I was polyamorous) assumption that it'd shock me to date 3 people simultaneously, right?
Therefore, your little assumptions about my specific relationship hold no weight.
Mind. Your. Business.
"Don't start none, won't be none."--Kandi Burruss (Kandi is also a bi woman, I just want to add)

 

[Jeffer2580]

It's a spectrum. It's greatly influenced by experience and conditioning more than people are willing to admit. If you throw a gay man in a prison system full of heterosexual women, in time he will have sex with them.

The reverse is obviously already known to be true for straight men in prisons. It's called situational homosexuality. Some of these inmates become attached to men for the rest of their life even after they leave, and some go back to being straight or closer to the center.

It's all to a greater extent transitional IMO. It's not static or fixed, certainly not for most people. Most people wait for it to happen to them to see if it's fluid or static. But you can do it to yourself (have sex with women) to see if you change over time (and yes it takes time). The catch is it has be organic and pleasurable. So if you "force" yourself to do it, your mind will know and reject it. You won't acquire the taste for it and you will associate bad things with the experience.

You could be "mostly gay in your 20s" then become more bi in your 30s, then become mostly straight in your 40s, then become more bi again in your 50s. You could lose the taste for everything and become asexual.

For reasons, I don't want to get into. Most people will never admit this be true or want to be completely honest about it because of the implications of what it means if it were true.

I mean it is a known fact that sexuality is greatly influenced by environmental factors, the only reason people sway that aside is because it's a continuous talking points for bigots to point out that sexuality can change overnight