I feel like we are in urgent need of understanding what bisexuality is.

[15153321]

In these past couple of years I've been seeing more and more people misunderstanding the label of bisexual and other sexual/romantic iterations.

Thread after thread, post after post, tweet after tweet of "gay" men saying they find a specific thing about women sexually attractive, or a specific sexual act with women to be enticing or even desirable. The same thing with "straight" men feeling the same thing about men.

I feel that these ppl say stuff like this because they truly don't understand what being bisexual means.

They think that a bisexual person must be 50% attracted to men and 50% attracted to women and because they mostly feel attracted to one of the sexes (gender?), they choose to identify with one of the more known sexual orientations (Gay/Straight) even though they don't belong in them.

Bisexual ppl can be 99% attracted to men or women and still be bi. There are also different romantic iterations like homoromantic/heteromantic that people are simply not aware of.

This leads to a bunch of bisexual men pushing the narrative that, for example, gay men can be find women sexually attractive and still "remain" gay. Or the same with str8 men.

We should urge ppl to better research sexual and romantic orientations, I think it's very important.

 

[Call_Me_Dave]

In these past couple of years I've been seeing more and more people misunderstanding the label of bisexual and other sexual/romantic iterations.

Thread after thread, post after post, tweet after tweet of "gay" men saying they find a specific thing about women sexually attractive, or a specific sexual act with women to be enticing or even desirable. The same thing with "straight" men feeling the same thing about men.

I feel that these ppl say stuff like this because they truly don't understand what being bisexual means.

They think that a bisexual person must be 50% attracted to men and 50% attracted to women and because they mostly feel attracted to one of the sexes (gender?), they choose to identify with one of the more known sexual orientations (Gay/Straight) even though they don't belong in them.

Bisexual ppl can be 99% attracted to men or women and still be bi. There are also different romantic iterations like homoromantic/heteromantic that people are simply not aware of.

This leads to a bunch of bisexual men pushing the narrative that, for example, gay men can be find women sexually attractive and still "remain" gay. Or the same with str8 men.

We should urge ppl to better research sexual and romantic orientations, I think it's very important.

It seems like a good portion of people are hesitant to call themselves bi for some reason. There are countless threads here talking about straight guys looking to meet up and blow each other, but can’t say the word bi. It’s not a curse word, or a bad thing, yet folks are afraid to label themselves as such. You are right in that they seem to have this line in the sand that you need to cross to be “really no”, and they don’t meet that criteria. Call me old fashioned, but I thought that if you were sexually attracted to men and women, you were bi. I know there is more to it these days, but having a sliding scale, “you must be this gay to call yourself bi” seems a bit silly and dishonest.

 

[Call_Me_Dave]

Your point is very much appreciated! It's nice, in a way, to be able to see that not only gay ppl feel this way and it's nice to be able to share different perspectives on the subject!

I’ve always just found it odd/strange/maddening that people, especially here, can’t see the silliness in calling yourself straight and asking around for other straight dudes to duck around with. I guess it’s fantasy related, but at what point do you come to the realization that if I’m a guy, who fucks women, and is prowling for dick, that I’m a bisexual man? Maybe I’m just a party pooper and can’t get into that fantasy. Oh well.

 

[Call_Me_Dave]

Disclaimer: I am high and may not be abke to articulate my points and thoughts well. Also mind my tone as I am not meaning to be aggressive or argumentative!

My thoughts and hypothesis on the matter: the main issue here for straight men is women. I'm not talking about the guys who call themselves straight but suck a dick every weekend. I'm talking about a guy who is straight but likes prostate play. Or admitted getting a bj from a dude once and never again. Or they like ____ that gets them labeled gay(or bisexual)

Women have said if they hint even a bit of homosexual activity from a man, they are no longer attractive. I totally understand you guys wanting to have more people accept the bisexual term but its the inherent assumptions of people that scare them away.

According to you guys and others who are adamant about people labeling themselves as bisexual and even not needing to put a percentage, a vast majority of humanity is now bisexual. Does that help anything..? Not really. Because now people are assuming because I got hard watching a woman orgasm solo, I'm suddenly bisexual. I dont want to do anything sexual with a woman. I don't pursue women. I mostly enjoy male-male sex or male solo sex. But occasionally a woman having genuine pleasure and orgasms while having sex is hot to me.

If a straight guy said he liked to watch guys cum solo or that he likes being pegged, he would be labeled as a bisexual in denial. That's not fair on him.

Its a little ironic you guys mentioned that you think its silly that someone must be an arbitrary percentage or amount of "gay" to be bisexual but simultaneously apply 100% as the percentage needed to be able to claim being gay or straight.

You say others are wrong making a line needed to be crossed and simultaneously insisting YOUR line is the true line that was already crossed. Its not that you are complaining a line is drawn. You just think they passed it long time ago and are writing a SECOND line further away.

Exploring one’s sexuality is different than having a true desire for one something. Many people need to/choose to explore their sexualities to better find their identities, and that’s great. That is done so they can figure out who they truly are. That’s what we are not talking about here. Pegging isn’t a gay act, as it’s performed (typically) with a man and woman. Not so I care about a %. If I didn’t have to, I wouldn’t.

If a “straight” man has any desires, or is turned on by other men, I would consider them bi. It doesn’t matter if they actually go out and blow/fuck guys, they just have the desire and attraction to men and women. Which is cool. No shame in that at all.

I’m not adamant about people labeling themselves bi. I’m suggesting that people be more introspective and honest when it comes to their desires and sexual preferences. That’s all. The more people do it, it may become less stigmatized.

 

[15153321]

I found nothing educational or eye opening in the thread. Mostly, it's just a rehash of the same, tired narratives from those not embracing their sexuality or questioning the sexual preferences of men who identify as straight. I am specifically excluding the posts from those who embrace who they are without trying to claim others are secretly not who they are, or falsely claiming their sexuality is preferred in greater numbers than is supported by data.

Bruh, if you don't find anything educational about this thread, why are you still here?
I ask you again, do you not have anything better to do with your life then to come online specifically looking for a fight?
Everyone here was having a civil conversation, sharing different points of view on a specific subject.
You came in, guns ablaze, purposefully misinterpreting what ppl are saying, acting like an entitled prick and calling out ppl for something they quite literally did not do.
Just go away!

 

[skizzage]

I keep hearing about these gay men calling other gay men bigots for not sleeping with women but I’ve never actually seen any proof that this is some widespread thing.

Is this actually happening or is it just paranoia? Can someone show me somewhere (not on fucking Twitter) where this actually happened? It just seems like a VERY online experience.

 

[15153321]

I think deep, heavy denial of being “un-straight” is where the main problem lies. They would rather alter definitions than use the age old term that fits them to a T, so they can still call themselves straight.

But that's the thing, it doesn't just happen to str8 ppl. For a community that prides itself on being inclusive, plenty of "gay" men simply cannot admit they're not actually gay and like to be with women. It seems kinda weird but I think they feel some sort of comfort and security by clinging onto that label but it sucks because, as I've mentioned before, it pushed the narrative that gay men have sex with women, which is, categorically, not the case.

 

[CoburnAisling]

You make good points, yep. I call myself pan, rather than bi. I know people say that bi is inclusive of more than just male/female, but I'm autistic and extremely literal, and I just can't fucking do it, lol. Bi means two, so for me it's easier to use the pan label. I don't argue with other people anymore, though, as I've accepted that my literalism doesn't have to mandate other people's realities.

But yeah, I'm married to a cis man. I'm a cis man. My porn stash is 100% male right now (though I've been thinking about making a new section...), but I've jerked off while looking at some pussy before. And to both trans men and trans women. Generally my mind just sort of makes shit up that makes sense, imagines a scenario, and off I go, lol.

So every once in a while, I just randomly look at something other than cis men for a little fun variety, usually before swapping back to one of my standards to finish. Last time was just yesterday, actually, masturbating to a beer can cock with the head just peaking out of a super aroused (I love when you can see the mound of hardness around her vulva, mimicking an erection) pussy with lips spread wide around the thick rod.

Anyway, I need a break. What were we talking about?

 

[CoburnAisling]

If a gay man finds a woman to be sexually attractive, they're not gay, thus, they shouldn't use that label.

In the effort to not define how other people label themselves, I would disagree with this part if taken literally. I call myself gay all the time because it describes a part of my reality, despite the fact that I also say I'm technically pan and can see other genders and bodies as attractive. My porn is usually gay, my smut is all gay (and I have written a fair amount), and for all intents and purposes, that's how I present. So it's closer to my reality than what most people envision "pan" to be. I haven't dated a woman in 14 years, and I've never dated a trans person of any gender. But I would date women, men, and others of any sort of sex as long as I'm attracted to them. So I'm both. I'm VERY gay. And also pan.

 

[Cum_is_Great]

But that's the thing, I was reffering specifically of cases when those ppl are the same. I was giving the example of the ppl that call themselves gay or straight and call actual gay men bigoted for not wanting to be with women, when they are. I see that as trying to redefine a label that has existed for decades and that has meant one thing for that whole time until now. And for no reason, as well, since there is a label that does accurately describe them.

Do you see how what I'm saying falls under what you are saying here? Bisexual ppl that refuse to use the rightful label and are trying to redefine a label that does not belong to them whilst shaming ppl that do belong in that label for not recreating actions they participate in, to me, causes them harm, even if indirectly.

No, I understood exactly what you meant. You still can fight those specific people on the front of their ignorance by fighting against calling gay men who won't sleep with women bigoted.

See that specifically is the problem. Calling gay men bigoted if they wont sleep with women. You dont fix that by policing what each person calls themselves sexually. Because if each of those same bisexual men fixes your concern, and calls themselves bisexual, how does that stop the harm of being called bigoted out of ignorance? That's the main thing you want to stop right?

We have a venn diagram.

Two circles, Left being "Bisexual men who call themselves Gay" and the right being "People who call Gay men bigoted for not sleeping with women"

The problem is with the right circle but you keep focus on the left. The left circle does not CAUSE the right. But they do have overlap. Fighting to remove the left circle will still leave the right one. That's my point. That's why I focus my attention on the right circle.

Hopefully I made myself clear. I understand what you are saying. Its just that the thing you are saying is the problem isnt what you seem to be focusing on is all.

 

[Call_Me_Dave]

No one asked for an apology but I'm glad you're repentant. Perhaps, in the future, you'll resist the temptation to project your sexual desires and preferences onto others.

What in the everlovibg fuck are you talking about? I’m projecting exactly zero sexual desires of mine. Not sure where you got that from, or if you’re just looking to argue for some reason. Nor am I “ “projecting preferences” onto anyone. If anything, I was promoting people be more accurate/honest in their preferences so they can better fulfill their wants and needs. It was a great thread to start.

The only person that seems to have any issue with my comments is you. Not everyone agrees with me, and that’s more than ok. It’s why I wrote anything, for different opinions and perspectives. But no one else has taken anything I, or anyone for that matter, as poorly as you. This thread was educational and eye opening and hopefully resourceful for people. I hope that for the sake of the OP it gets back on track and remains as useful as it started.

 

[malakos]

Well, there is a question of significant and negligible levels of interest/attraction.

If a predominantly homosexual man, for example, found some women mildly sexually intriguing, but not to the point that this ever expressed outwardly in his sex life, nor did it become a pervasive feature of his inner life (his thoughts), then there really would be no use in him identifying as "Bi" rather than "Gay", even if on the degrees of sexual orientation model it might be true that he's 99/1.

Someone identifying / being identified as bisexual makes sense only if it is found that he has a pervasive pattern of some significant sexual interest in both sexes.

 

[chpoof]

It seems like a good portion of people are hesitant to call themselves bi for some reason. There are countless threads here talking about straight guys looking to meet up and blow each other, but can’t say the word bi. It’s not a curse word, or a bad thing, yet folks are afraid to label themselves as such. You are right in that they seem to have this line in the sand that you need to cross to be “really no”, and they don’t meet that criteria. Call me old fashioned, but I thought that if you were sexually attracted to men and women, you were bi. I know there is more to it these days, but having a sliding scale, “you must be this gay to call yourself bi” seems a bit silly and dishonest.

Very well said. People tend to make it far more complicated than it needs to be. Also (as I've stated in other posts), men have a tendency to label themselves by how they want others to perceive them instead of how they are naturally wired.

Along those same lines, why is there not even an option for members on this forum to select "bisexual" as their orientation? It's never made sense to me why everyone is shoehorned into picking a number on a scale between straight and gay. I've never understand how you can apply a number to an orientation anyway. 99%? Why not 97% or 92%? There are guys on here whose profiles indicate they're 80% gay and they call themselves gay, while others in the same percentile call themselves bisexual, yet neither has to option to do so in their own profile.

 

[15153321]

Just so I understand, you're asking if I am NOT meddling/caring with what other people label themselves as sexually because it doesn'taffect me directlyas an individual, why would I fight for gay rights for everyone?

So my thought process is, bisexual men that are more gay leaning but still feel attracted to women insist on calling themselves gay for some reason or the other whilst still actively seeking out and being with women. Not only that, they go to the lengths of shaming actual gay men for not wanting to be with women and calling them close-minded and using arguments like "you should just open your mind and try it" or "you haven't met the right woman". That, to me, is a form of conversion therapy, since gay men are being shamed and ridiculed for being sexually attracted solely to other men.

Its not like even if for some reason people think gay men can like women sexually you are forced to.

You're saying that because that doesn't affect me directly, I shouldn't police what those men in particular choose to identify as. And that leads me to ask you, why do we fight for gay rights, let's say, for ppl living in other countries? Why do we criminalize conversion therapy when we're not directly affected by it?

Idk if my thought process makes sense or if I explained myself in a coherent way, but yeah.

 

[Call_Me_Dave]

The premise that people -- men -- are misled about the meaning of bisexuality, and are not being honest with themselves about its meaning, is a condescending and self-serving presumption. I think people are discerning and intelligent enough to make their own determination regarding how they identify.

No one ever said that people aren’t intelligent. What I said is that some people aren’t honest with themselves. I’m far from condescending . He asked me what I would call him, so I did.

 

[CoburnAisling]

Being gay isn't a culture, though?
Being gay is a sexual orientation. Gay is a label that describes what a person feels sexually attracted to, so saying that a man that calls himself gay but goes on having sex with women is wrong isn't prescriptive.


That's exactly what bisexual is, though. Like, idk if I'm not expressing myself correctly here, but can you not see how it can be damaging for bi men to call themselves gay when they fuck women?

So, the way I wrote that sentence was specifically to head off your exact argument. I said if "gay" best describes the culture he associates with himself. Meaning I'm acknowledging that "gay" isn't actually a culture, but that for him, that word describes the culture that exists that he associates with himself. It doesn't matter that you don't get that association, because you are not him. His associations are not the same as yours. You don't get to tell him his aren't valid.

Bi/Pan men using "gay" to describe themselves is perfectly fine. I already described exactly why I myself do that.

What you are arguing for is literalism. And while I get the draw as an autistic person, believe me—ultimately, people are a lot more important than accuracy. And if we can tell the difference, we don't NEED to alert everyone else to it. We can just let it exist for what it is, and do things however suits us when it's our turn to make the choices.

I've been learning a lot of big lessons about my autism in the last few days, coincidentally, and that very paragraph was one of them.

 

[Andrej_u]

I am bisexual. I am mostly attracted to men, I've always been with men or transgender men and only a couple times with non-binary people. Romantically, I fall in love with men, but I could fall in love with someone who is non-binary or trans. I doubt I could fall in love with a cis woman, but you never know. Sexually I do find some women attractive, and I could go into more detail about genital preference and so on.

This is my sexuality, and 4 lines of text were not enough to fully describe it. I am ready to tell the full story to people who are interested, and to my friends.
However, saying "gay" gives an 80% approximation of my sexuality, in just 3 letters. It also approximates my social sexuality better, as you'll see me do a lot of gay things like having sex with men, and you don't see me do bisexual stuff, at least up to now. And I've actually thought I was 100% gay for a certain part of my life, before realising that I do have some attraction for some women. (It's more complex than this... If anyone wants me to expand, feel free to write to me in private).

This is what labels are: they are tools to simplify our lives and communicate faster. They are not meant to be 100% accurate: white wine is not white, it's yellow! There are a lot of different shades of yellow too... And yet the label "white" is enough in everyday communication, unless you're a wine connoisseur.

So yeah, I use both labels "gay" and "bisexual with preference for men" depending on the context, the depth of the conversation, the person I'm talking to, and so on. Just like one could say "I'm American" in one situation and "I'm 1/4 Cherokee, 1/3 German, half Filipino, my Nana is from Calabria and I can cook Pierogi" in another context.

So my thought process is, bisexual men that are more gay leaning but still feel attracted to women insist on calling themselves gay for some reason or the other whilst still actively seeking out and being with women. Not only that, they go to the lengths of shaming actual gay men for not wanting to be with women and calling them close-minded and using arguments like "you should just open your mind and try it" or "you haven't met the right woman". That, to me, is a form of conversion therapy, since gay men are being shamed and ridiculed for being sexually attracted solely to other men.

1) Those people should screw themselves
2) Thankfully I've personally never experienced this type of bigotry. Is it very common? Does it come in a certain circle of people, or is it pervasive?

 

[MisterB]

MODERATOR NOTICE​

Enough with the off topic back and forth between a few Members here that's gotten personal.

Any more such content will be removed and offending Members will be thread banned.

Now let's please get this thread back on track to the topic.

Thanks
B

 

[15153321]

OR...stop labeling people. Easy.

Oh, yes, that would resolve every problem.

 

[Tight_End_SC]

I consider myself to be bi. There are times when I enjoy sexual intercourse with women. I also enjoy giving head to a few guys. There is only one man that I will bottom for. If I am watching porn, the scenes that get me off usually are those with male and females having sex. I don't dwell on it, just go with what I like. Call me what you want, I just know what I like.