Is there a gay dating hierarchy? Where do I fit?

[geordie-bloke]

Interesting discussion. I will try to give an older gay’s perspective on this, although I wonder how relevant it is now that dating has changed so much with social media apps.

I had a good circle of gay friends in London in my mid 20s. My first point is that very few of us ended up with our long-term partners until we were at least in our early or mid 30s. So don’t panic when you are still young!

And there is some truth to that phrase “you’re not ready“ even if you just can’t see it at the time. I desperately wanted a long-term boyfriend when I was in my 20s, but looking back I really wasn’t ready. I hadn’t yet really established in my own mind who I really was. I think we keep growing an awful lot in our 20s Even if we don’t know that it’s happening.

There is, of course, a hierarchy of looks in gay culture, as there is in heterosexual culture, although probably gays are even more influenced by looks and muscles.

I remember visiting Fire Island in the 90s and thinking the hierarchy in the USA around muscles was even stricter there than in London.

Class probably still plays an outsized role in the UK. I am white, middle to upper-middle class, tall, relatively good looking (or was!), with a professional job and a friends group who almost exactly matched that too. Reading the comments here, I think I probably didn’t acknowledge my privileges when I was younger. All that means is that I’m not really qualified to advise on people who are in a different class or race situation. But I do think there are those almost silent class barriers that can be difficult to overcome in the UK.

But I also think that luck plays a much larger part in our life than many of us are willing to accept, particularly in terms of meeting “the right one”. I honestly think you can be unlucky for quite a long time. Try not to beat yourself up about it. But also remember that fortune favours the prepared.

Intereesting points especially around class. I regard myself lucky to have come from the gutter as I can fall in love with a person's truth. Class and formal education do not matter ajot to me. Emotional intelligence, yes. But that plus a certain rawness can be incredibly beautiful. OK so my partner is a senior white collar professional too BUT he's Venezuelan which gives me some brownie points. A Venexuelan with a Geordie accent (when we met ikt was verging on RP bless him lol). Can you imagine?

 

[lostinspace94]

Interesting discussion. I will try to give an older gay’s perspective on this, although I wonder how relevant it is now that dating has changed so much with social media apps.

I had a good circle of gay friends in London in my mid 20s. My first point is that very few of us ended up with our long-term partners until we were at least in our early or mid 30s. So don’t panic when you are still young!

And there is some truth to that phrase “you’re not ready“ even if you just can’t see it at the time. I desperately wanted a long-term boyfriend when I was in my 20s, but looking back I really wasn’t ready. I hadn’t yet really established in my own mind who I really was. I think we keep growing an awful lot in our 20s Even if we don’t know that it’s happening.

There is, of course, a hierarchy of looks in gay culture, as there is in heterosexual culture, although probably gays are even more influenced by looks and muscles.

I remember visiting Fire Island in the 90s and thinking the hierarchy in the USA around muscles was even stricter there than in London.

Class probably still plays an outsized role in the UK. I am white, middle to upper-middle class, tall, relatively good looking (or was!), with a professional job and a friends group who almost exactly matched that too. Reading the comments here, I think I probably didn’t acknowledge my privileges when I was younger. All that means is that I’m not really qualified to advise on people who are in a different class or race situation. But I do think there are those almost silent class barriers that can be difficult to overcome in the UK.

But I also think that luck plays a much larger part in our life than many of us are willing to accept, particularly in terms of meeting “the right one”. I honestly think you can be unlucky for quite a long time. Try not to beat yourself up about it. But also remember that fortune favours the prepared.

Everything you write is here is spot on and I'm definitely *believing* it as I get older (not just 'agreeing' to it haha).

I guess my initial confusion actually stemmed from social media, and gay men around me in general, nearly all of whom dated, had relationships and even finances/married in their 20s. It is even more prevalent in the US where guys settle down by 30. I never came across someone in my situation - able to get hookups but nothing going anywhere - except in cases they were actually strongly avoiding more (when I at least consciously wasn't). I admit I was comparing, but I guess each person has their own journey.

My theory was that part of "becoming ready" was actually going through your first relationship (and dating) to both see what you like / don't like and what you can tolerate / can't tolerate. I guess my frustration is nothing really kicked off in this department, and 'growing from hookups' is limited (especially when you see the guy only once in your lifetime lol).

As I get older, I find it is becoming very hard to find a 'match'. I'm mixed (and I mix I've literally not met a single guy yet have), upper-middle class (which eliminates a lot of 30+ gays who typically will have coupled up by now), tall (again, cutting out a lot of the population especially in the US where the average height is shorter), told I'm handsome looking, professional job/career (same issue as upper-middle class), etc. My friends vary though (different colours, classes, heights etc) and since I've never really had a relationship, I can't say there is a "type" who goes for me which is why I am running into a blind spot.

I totally agree that luck and timing plays a huge part of things and I'm really starting to accept that. I'm just doing what I can to keep growing in ways I know how and hope it works out in the end. Even if it doesn't, I'm happy single and with myself.

 

[ahaahahahaa]

Everything you write is here is spot on and I'm definitely *believing* it as I get older (not just 'agreeing' to it haha).

I guess my initial confusion actually stemmed from social media, and gay men around me in general, nearly all of whom dated, had relationships and even finances/married in their 20s. It is even more prevalent in the US where guys settle down by 30. I never came across someone in my situation - able to get hookups but nothing going anywhere - except in cases they were actually strongly avoiding more (when I at least consciously wasn't). I admit I was comparing, but I guess each person has their own journey.

My theory was that part of "becoming ready" was actually going through your first relationship (and dating) to both see what you like / don't like and what you can tolerate / can't tolerate. I guess my frustration is nothing really kicked off in this department, and 'growing from hookups' is limited (especially when you see the guy only once in your lifetime lol).

As I get older, I find it is becoming very hard to find a 'match'. I'm mixed (and I mix I've literally not met a single guy yet have), upper-middle class (which eliminates a lot of 30+ gays who typically will have coupled up by now), tall (again, cutting out a lot of the population especially in the US where the average height is shorter), told I'm handsome looking, professional job/career (same issue as upper-middle class), etc. My friends vary though (different colours, classes, heights etc) and since I've never really had a relationship, I can't say there is a "type" who goes for me which is why I am running into a blind spot.

I totally agree that luck and timing plays a huge part of things and I'm really starting to accept that. I'm just doing what I can to keep growing in ways I know how and hope it works out in the end. Even if it doesn't, I'm happy single and with myself.

I'm curious, do you happen to have a type ? Are you looking for twinks or jocks, older or younger and do you have a racial preference ?

 

[elklindoxxx]

From what you described i think you're up there. Yes there's a hierarchy in the gay community but I will like to call it desirability hierarchy, (because if we're honest how many gays really want to date lol). Top of this hierarchy is fit, muscular and big dick. Especially if you're white. You can argue that black guys who tick these boxes comes close but its mostly fetishization. As a black guy I've noticed we're not exactly desired, most non blacks move to us because they want to fulfill their BBC Fantasy/fetish.

The desirability hierarchy is certainly true. Everytime I go to a JO event, I'm getting eyeballed and approached. I've heard all of the pickup lines. And I only go for handsome muscular and fit men.

So I generally date other men, I go mostly for sexual activity. And I have zero racial preference when it comes to men. I've had sex with black, white, latino and asian. That makes no difference to me.

 

[Graham123]

The desirability hierarchy is certainly true. Everytime I go to a JO event, I'm getting eyeballed and approached. I've heard all of the pickup lines. And I only go for handsome muscular and fit men.

So I generally date other men, I go mostly for sexual activity. And I have zero racial preference when it comes to men. I've had sex with black, white, latino and asian. That makes no difference to me.

Good for you, a cock is nice whatever it’s attached too!

 

[geordie-bloke]

OK so wrong site to raise this, probably, but .. is romantic love on its last legs? Given the ubiquitousness of public sex and porn now and the rapid erosion of sex as something behind closed doors or private ( and that's now for the straights too; I do acknowledge that the gays have always had easy access).

Plus the fact that marriage wasn't ever a neccessary socisal construct (taking care of one's offspring, maybe as partners, together, yes, but a big party and a piece of paper and commitment to eternity?) and more and more people are ditching marriage.

As people become more "sexually" aware and polyamory becomes more acceptable, is the experience of "falling in love" on life support?

I'm an eternal romantic at heart and for me, the experience of (requited) romantic love shits on sex as an ecstatic experience. It can bring with it horrendous pain but even that pain has, at its core, something .. poetic. (Yes that's ripping off every Romantic (as in era) poet, especially Keats).

Relevance to this discussion ... do you even NEED a significant other these days?

 

[Graham123]

OK so wrong site to raise this, probably, but .. is romantic love on its last legs? Given the ubiquitousness of public sex and porn now and the rapid erosion of sex as something behind closed doors or private ( and that's now for the straights too; I do acknowledge that the gays have always had easy access).

Plus the fact that marriage wasn't ever a neccessary socisal construct (taking care of one's offspring, maybe as partners, together, yes, but a big party and a piece of paper and commitment to eternity?) and more and more people are ditching marriage.

As people become more "sexually" aware and polyamory becomes more acceptable, is the experience of "falling in love" on life support?

I'm an eternal romantic at heart and for me, the experience of (requited) romantic love shits on sex as an ecstatic experience. It can bring with it horrendous pain but even that pain has, at its core, something .. poetic. (Yes that's ripping off every Romantic (as in era) poet, especially Keats).

Relevance to this discussion ... do you even NEED a significant other these days?

Yes I think it’s good to have a significant other but when the water dries up in the well the man still needs to drink and often goes in search of fresh water to drink. Hence why most married guys in sexless marriages tend to look elsewhere and another guy is a sexual release with out the emotions of another emotional female relationship. Marred guys don’t want erratic females banging in their door telling the mrs her husband has been fucking her for the last two years!! Guys just take it for what it is sex and a bit of fun, NSA and a release in this mad world.

 

[Graham123]

Yes I think it’s good to have a significant other but when the water dries up in the well the man still needs to drink and often goes in search of fresh water to drink. Hence why most married guys in sexless marriages tend to look elsewhere and another guy is a sexual release with out the emotions of another emotional female relationship. Marred guys don’t want erratic females banging in their door telling the mrs her husband has been fucking her for the last two years!! Guys just take it for what it is sex and a bit of fun, NSA and a release in this mad world.

P.S a guy having a sexual release with another guy doesn’t mean he is gay or bisexual it’s just seen as sex with a guy!

 

[ahaahahahaa]

P.S a guy having a sexual release with another guy doesn’t mean he is gay or bisexual it’s just seen as sex with a guy!

Being sexually attracted to a man is the definition of being gay or bisexual

 

[lostinspace94]

I'm curious, do you happen to have a type ? Are you looking for twinks or jocks, older or younger and do you have a racial preference ?

I don't have a "type". In the ~10 years I've been hooking up, I've pretty much done everything. Twinks -> jocks. Older and younger. (most) races (not always by choice, some are just harder to find, but generally living in a City you find all kinds).

I would say guys "matching me" (as in on Tinder etc) tend to be on the fitter side, and handsome looking in general though.

 

[lostinspace94]

OK so wrong site to raise this, probably, but .. is romantic love on its last legs? Given the ubiquitousness of public sex and porn now and the rapid erosion of sex as something behind closed doors or private ( and that's now for the straights too; I do acknowledge that the gays have always had easy access).

Plus the fact that marriage wasn't ever a neccessary socisal construct (taking care of one's offspring, maybe as partners, together, yes, but a big party and a piece of paper and commitment to eternity?) and more and more people are ditching marriage.

As people become more "sexually" aware and polyamory becomes more acceptable, is the experience of "falling in love" on life support?

I'm an eternal romantic at heart and for me, the experience of (requited) romantic love shits on sex as an ecstatic experience. It can bring with it horrendous pain but even that pain has, at its core, something .. poetic. (Yes that's ripping off every Romantic (as in era) poet, especially Keats).

Relevance to this discussion ... do you even NEED a significant other these days?

I really wondered about this too for a while. Before I went on my retreat, I also thought love was on its last legs. Around me I could see people in sexless and/or unhappy relationships and was really wondering what was going on and started to loose hope.

After the retreat, and getting deeper into meditation, I've realised:

a) You get in life what you settle for. This is *extremely* relevant in the dating/relationship world. I think more and more people are burdened with all aspects of life and often times don't have the means or ability (not always just emotionally but financially etc too) to move away from their current setup. Which means...

b) People seem very cognitively connected, vs emotionally / heart connected (even when they claim they can't let go of the person because they are emotionally connected, it is usually BS, if you actually love someone you will let them go as their happiness is more important than yours). Society is also conditioning us to accept these "cognitive" connections (which is why everything feels transactional) and it s only becoming worse.

My personal theory is, I think a lot of guys just have no idea what will satisfy them (in all aspects of life) and therefore seek this "thrill" physically through others. Think about it, why would someone who knows what they want want to still "explore". They claim its "just for fun" or "to keep things interesting" but deep down its lack of contentment. You don't look for new parents, or a new flat if you are content (even if unhappy with 1-2 aspects you make do) so I don't know why relationships are an exception.

I also think there are a lack of repercussions e.g. sex is easy, short term, a thrill etc that previously existed in society. There are techniques, like yoga, to literally make you orgasm without involving another human being (I have done this and it is incredible) but people want a short term fix and think the next ass or dick or fuck will make them satisfied, it never does and they rinse and repeat till their time runs out.

It's a mix of external and internal confusion I think that drives all of this behaviour. I have yet to meet someone very settled in life in such situations.

To your question, I don't think you "need" anything beyond oxygen/food/water really, it's more "do you want it" and "how bad". That's where all the compromising and trade offs start.

 

[uwsmike]

A bunch of thoughts after reading this.

1. There are multiple "hierarchies" - it all depends on the group. There are guys who look down on gays who are femme. Guys who look down on gays who are "professional gays" e.g., most of their lives revolve around gay events/parties/vacations, etc. And those guys look down on guys who are too "straight" and watch sports and have mostly straight friends.

Look at "bears" -- I have heard people sneer about "slick marketing for ugly fat guys" and others who are super turned on by bears.

Point being there's no single hierarchy-- it all depends on the situation you are in and what groups you socialize with.

Straight people are no different. Some women might find a lawyer who works out with a trainer and wears somewhat stylish clothes to be too prissy, while for others he, and similar guys, are their dream men.

2. Americans tell you their ethnic background because other than Native Americans most of us are from somewhere else and not all that long ago. The "I'm Italian and Irish" thing is more common in the Northeast and Midwest than in the South because the South did not see much immigration in the early 1900s the way those other areas did. That has changed a lot over the past 50 years though, especially in states like North Carolina and Texas.

3. The thing about hookup apps is that no one really wants to be using them. No matter how hot you are, it's a giant time suck just for a quick and often not every well done blowjob from a guy you'll probably never see again.
Point being most (single) guys on there would rather find a regular buddy, and then have that buddy turn into a relationship. You just have to put yourself out there a little. Granted a lot of those guys are not single or turn out to not be single, but there are plenty who are and who are in the same boat as you OP.

4. Race is weird enough in dating to begin with, but gets dialed up to 11 on the apps. I know plenty of guys who have dated people of different races they'd met in real life, but won't talk to anyone like that on an app because they attribute various negative stereotypes to them and then don't want to waste time figuring out if they're accurate. That's shitty, but it is unfortunately what a lot of guys do.

 

[geordie-bloke]

A bunch of thoughts after reading this.

1. There are multiple "hierarchies" - it all depends on the group. There are guys who look down on gays who are femme. Guys who look down on gays who are "professional gays" e.g., most of their lives revolve around gay events/parties/vacations, etc. And those guys look down on guys who are too "straight" and watch sports and have mostly straight friends.

Look at "bears" -- I have heard people sneer about "slick marketing for ugly fat guys" and others who are super turned on by bears.

Point being there's no single hierarchy-- it all depends on the situation you are in and what groups you socialize with.

Straight people are no different. Some women might find a lawyer who works out with a trainer and wears somewhat stylish clothes to be too prissy, while for others he, and similar guys, are their dream men.

2. Americans tell you their ethnic background because other than Native Americans most of us are from somewhere else and not all that long ago. The "I'm Italian and Irish" thing is more common in the Northeast and Midwest than in the South because the South did not see much immigration in the early 1900s the way those other areas did. That has changed a lot over the past 50 years though, especially in states like North Carolina and Texas.

3. The thing about hookup apps is that no one really wants to be using them. No matter how hot you are, it's a giant time suck just for a quick and often not every well done blowjob from a guy you'll probably never see again.
Point being most (single) guys on there would rather find a regular buddy, and then have that buddy turn into a relationship. You just have to put yourself out there a little. Granted a lot of those guys are not single or turn out to not be single, but there are plenty who are and who are in the same boat as you OP.

4. Race is weird enough in dating to begin with, but gets dialed up to 11 on the apps. I know plenty of guys who have dated people of different races they'd met in real life, but won't talk to anyone like that on an app because they attribute various negative stereotypes to them and then don't want to waste time figuring out if they're accurate. That's shitty, but it is unfortunately what a lot of guys do.

What's odd is that n African or Pakistanui Brit will inevitably identify as British/ English/ Scottish/ Welsh and ud have to specifically ask about their heritage if u wanted to know.

 

[bigboaster]

A bunch of thoughts after reading this.

1. There are multiple "hierarchies" - it all depends on the group. There are guys who look down on gays who are femme. Guys who look down on gays who are "professional gays" e.g., most of their lives revolve around gay events/parties/vacations, etc. And those guys look down on guys who are too "straight" and watch sports and have mostly straight friends.

Look at "bears" -- I have heard people sneer about "slick marketing for ugly fat guys" and others who are super turned on by bears.

Point being there's no single hierarchy-- it all depends on the situation you are in and what groups you socialize with.

Straight people are no different. Some women might find a lawyer who works out with a trainer and wears somewhat stylish clothes to be too prissy, while for others he, and similar guys, are their dream men.

2. Americans tell you their ethnic background because other than Native Americans most of us are from somewhere else and not all that long ago. The "I'm Italian and Irish" thing is more common in the Northeast and Midwest than in the South because the South did not see much immigration in the early 1900s the way those other areas did. That has changed a lot over the past 50 years though, especially in states like North Carolina and Texas.

3. The thing about hookup apps is that no one really wants to be using them. No matter how hot you are, it's a giant time suck just for a quick and often not every well done blowjob from a guy you'll probably never see again.
Point being most (single) guys on there would rather find a regular buddy, and then have that buddy turn into a relationship. You just have to put yourself out there a little. Granted a lot of those guys are not single or turn out to not be single, but there are plenty who are and who are in the same boat as you OP.

4. Race is weird enough in dating to begin with, but gets dialed up to 11 on the apps. I know plenty of guys who have dated people of different races they'd met in real life, but won't talk to anyone like that on an app because they attribute various negative stereotypes to them and then don't want to waste time figuring out if they're accurate. That's shitty, but it is unfortunately what a lot of guys do.

One of the few nuanced and sensible comments in here. Much appreciated

 

[Kanashi]

After the retreat, and getting deeper into meditation, I've realised:

What retreat did you go on? Was this recently, after you created this thread?

Maybe I'm misreading, but it seems like your vibe has changed since the question was initially asked.

 

[lostinspace94]

What retreat did you go on? Was this recently, after you created this thread?

Maybe I'm misreading, but it seems like your vibe has changed since the question was initially asked.

Great attention to detail!

Yes the retreat was after I created the thread. The retreat helped a LOT in so many different ways, and I'm incredibly grateful.

Planning to put myself out there again from next week. Just wanted to give things a little more time to settle in (post the retreat) before opening up my energy again. But I am excited for what is in store.

 

[ariesgeorge]

I

I'm in my mid 30's, British, mixed race and fit the typical "gay jock" profile (handsome looking, gym fit / muscled, above average cock etc) with the exception that I'm not white. For a visual: I am a little more 'caramel' in my skin shade, but similar look to Rogan Richards - who I spoke to about this topic and and who said I'm hot (based off my pic), should fuck around and someone will stick. I don't do porn/OF etc, always been focused on my career (which I love) and have progressed well/earn very well so can afford the 'muscle' lifestyle comfortably, and am generally independent (I travel myself, etc). My life has been really good overall so far.

However, I've been single since I've been out for ~10 years now and I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what is going on for me. I've not even had a FWB situation or short term dating. It has been rather disappointing to be completely honest. Everyone says I'm a catch and yet I am nowhere near being caught. I have had a tonne of hookups over the years though, almost all have been one off, and in cases where there was something more there was always a problem e.g. he was visiting, he was already taken, too much time lag etc.

I've done all the logical steps: therapy (they have no idea, I've also done all the tests and don't have any medical / mental issues), dating coaches to improve my profile (they are confused because I get a tonne of matches, but no one will physically meet me outside of having sex), attending circuit parties / clubs (I get hit on in the party by several guys, but there isn't much effort beyond that after the party to engage with me, unless they are already coupled), etc but nothing has panned out for me yet. I also stopped hooking up entirely, but didn't land a single date in 6+ months, so basically ended up just getting no action or date lol.

Eventually, my friend said I was better off moving to the US, as people of colour do better there in his experience. I will say when I moved here, the attention I got in parties etc was completely different to my experience in the UK (it is much better in the US), but I feel like now that I'm in my 30s I'm still not attracting the "right" guy (someone single lol). It was also a struggle to connect with the gay community in the UK, making gay friends in the US has been a bit easier, but still nowhere near what I thought it would be like. I still very "outside" the scene I "should" fit into.

I spoke to a few more therapists who said there is unfortunately a gay hierarchy in dating. White at the top, then white passing (e.g. latinos), black, east asian and then south asian. Because of my mix/heritage, I fall towards the bottom of the pile. However, for sex, I am high up in the pile because I'm "exotic" looking. This seems to match my experience as I always get the hookup - with the hottest of the hottest guy on apps etc - but they will never want to know me beyond that - as their fantasy is fulfilled. I think it has more to do with them being unable to "visualise me" in their life (as probably they expect a Drago from Game of Thrones, and I turn out to be a good guy actually) rather than "racism" but I honestly have no idea how to break this perception.

I feel like nothing is 'wrong' with me but perhaps I just am not well-positioned to find someone who will accept me for who I am. I love living in the US, and my career means I can find a high paying job in almost any state. I really want to experience a more intimate connection with someone. I have no racial prejudices as I find hot guys of every race, but naturally in cities where are a lot more white and white adjacent to others so perhaps things get skewed for me. I would say that where things have gone a little further, its always been a white guy, because I reckon the other people of colour are chasing a white guy?

I don't know anymore how to "better" myself for a chance at something more. If I get a better understanding of how things work and where I fit in, I am sure I will be able to navigate this better, but at the moment I'm completely lost.

I'm from the UK and I'm kinda surprised to hear this. Where in the UK did you live? I haven't had a huge amount of serious boyfriends but the two most serious happened to be black and mixed race. I don't think there's a preference for skin colour or ethnicity beyond the individual but gay dating can be generally pretty toxic.

There are people who fetishise people based on skin tone and ethnicity but you should stay clear of them. Your partner should be in love with you or lusting after you (if fwb) not excited about you being 'different' to their prior experiences.

I can happily let people know that there is no difference between men of different ethnicities when it comes to sex. Lol. It's a really weird way of thinking in my eyes. A hot guy is a hot guy and we all have the same body parts etc. The only difference could be culture but non white guys I know in the UK share far more in common with me culturally than they do differ. I think the concept of America being 'better' also surprises me because all my American friends (non white and white) tell me that America is far more racist and segregated. You should never focus on what you don't have or what you aren't. You're you and you should value your individuality.

 

[lostinspace94]

I

I'm from the UK and I'm kinda surprised to hear this. Where in the UK did you live? I haven't had a huge amount of serious boyfriends but the two most serious happened to be black and mixed race. I don't think there's a preference for skin colour or ethnicity beyond the individual but gay dating can be generally pretty toxic.

There are people who fetishise people based on skin tone and ethnicity but you should stay clear of them. Your partner should be in love with you or lusting after you (if fwb) not excited about you being 'different' to their prior experiences.

I can happily let people know that there is no difference between men of different ethnicities when it comes to sex. Lol. It's a really weird way of thinking in my eyes. A hot guy is a hot guy and we all have the same body parts etc. The only difference could be culture but non white guys I know in the UK share far more in common with me culturally than they do differ. I think the concept of America being 'better' also surprises me because all my American friends (non white and white) tell me that America is far more racist and segregated. You should never focus on what you don't have or what you aren't. You're you and you should value your individuality.

I used to live in London. Most people were surprised to hear my experience in general. I will say I left during covid and before I saw London return to its normal form (post black lives matter, Netflix picking up etc) but can only share my experience of how things were years ago when I was there.

Getting hookups was never an issue, for the reason you wrote above, getting anything more has always been a challenge. As you said, I think gay dating can be toxic and is not skin color dependent so perhaps I just got unlucky.

I think it depends where you live in the US. When I lived in California, it was more racist/segregated. NY is very mixed so I feel it a lot less. I think its true for London vs other places in the UK too. It depends what is 'dominant' in the area really. I also think it depends on the type of racism. I faced much more 'systemic' racism in London than I have anywhere else in the world, mostly due to the majority of people there not actually realising they are being racist. I find American's are more 'fake' and part of that is knowing how to keep their racism hush hush.

 

[ariesgeorge]

I used to live in London. Most people were surprised to hear my experience in general. I will say I left during covid and before I saw London return to its normal form (post black lives matter, Netflix picking up etc) but can only share my experience of how things were years ago when I was there.

Getting hookups was never an issue, for the reason you wrote above, getting anything more has always been a challenge. As you said, I think gay dating can be toxic and is not skin color dependent so perhaps I just got unlucky.

I think it depends where you live in the US. When I lived in California, it was more racist/segregated. NY is very mixed so I feel it a lot less. I think its true for London vs other places in the UK too. It depends what is 'dominant' in the area really. I also think it depends on the type of racism. I faced much more 'systemic' racism in London than I have anywhere else in the world, mostly due to the majority of people there not actually realising they are being racist. I find American's are more 'fake' and part of that is knowing how to keep their racism hush hush.

Ugh. That's so shitty. What's wrong with people? I follow a few black American media pages and I find the comments are really negative when it comes to gays and trans etc. I wish there were more positive black role models out there for lgbtq+ because a lot of black guys who are gay end up dl or whatever. If there was more visibility of non white lgbtq+ people it might actually change the perception of the fetishising weirdos on dating apps.

 

[lostinspace94]

Ugh. That's so shitty. What's wrong with people? I follow a few black American media pages and I find the comments are really negative when it comes to gays and trans etc. I wish there were more positive black role models out there for lgbtq+ because a lot of black guys who are gay end up dl or whatever. If there was more visibility of non white lgbtq+ people it might actually change the perception of the fetishising weirdos on dating apps.

I don't like to blame/externalise too much, but focus on what I can do / control.

What I noticed (even in therapy) (and maybe this is too deep for a forum lol) but I was a top only. Being a POC and a top only, means I attracted a certain type of guy. Sure, we could have fun, but it was just that, and generally I was not left that satisfied.

When I started bottoming / becoming vers (willingly lol), my experience changed, not because something changed about me but because the men pool I engaged with opened up and included 'more'. I'm sure there is still fetishisation but I think its less somewhat because the pool of men that 'source' me changed.

If you look at systemic racism, the 'white' needs to be 'more powerful'. So in a straight relationship, a white man with a black woman is fine, but not the other way (except for porn). What I notice is when I am vers/bottom there is a somewhat power dynamic the 'top' can now have (there is still something about being penetrated that is seen as 'weaker' vs penetrating) which actually works in my favour despite my skin colour.